ISI - a big failure?

[Last Hope]

This thread is intended to be a one-post thread, as the creator does not wish to have biased and low-quality comments ruining and diverting the actual topic. If anyone wishes to argue over the topic, yet again after reading the following post, please find a separate thread. If you wish to add something, kindly PM me your questions or points to be evaluated, and I will do my best to help you. The reporting in this thread is basically from my knowledge, with additional posts by senior members especially Irfan Baloch, Icarus, FOX, Oscar and Aeronaut. The reason I have made this compilation is the lack of credit and respect for the services within Pakistani community which has been falling at an alarming rate, especially after the 'Raymond Davis' and 'OBL' issues. I will try to cover these points with my knowledge. Thank you.

Pakistan's Intelligence agency, failed to safeguard Pakistan’s interests?

Preview:

The Inter-Services-Intelligence is responsible for the defence-related intelligence operations and data capturing, for Pakistan’s military forces. The threats include both external as well as internal elements. ISI which is famously known as a sponsor of terrorism, promoting it in Pakistan itself, Afghanistan, India and other parts of the world including major countries like USA and UK. However, these allegations have been labeled as baseless and lashed back by the authorities. Whenever demanded for any backing to the statements, there has been a silent reply, like in the video below.

[video] Pakistan's ISI not involved in Terrorism-Indian Army Chief admits - YouTube[/video]
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The first to accuse ISI was International media and foreign Intelligence agencies. I would however, not name any in my report. This was followed by Indian media catching up and blaming every minor incident on ISI, including camels and pigeons crossing the border. In disgrace however, rather countering these statements, Pakistani media sought no less than an opportunity for promotion in Pakistan as well as International community – for this topic was well famous and anyone who went against the streak would have lost creditability. This shameful behavior of Pakistan’s own media outlets, printed, visual and online, has hidden the bigger picture from Pakistani citizens, changing the attitude and behavior towards the ISI by public. Media is a strong and powerful element, especially in this century, forcing everyone to believe in what it says. Improper use can be extremely hazardous. Here is an example on how it works:

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All thanks to media, the truth you know is in the following picture:

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The title is misleading to start.

If it was 'US Navy ship in a collision with...' then reasonably intelligent and objective readers would hesitate to cast blame on anyone until all the facts are in.

But if it was 'US Navy collided with...' then the immediate impression is that the US Navy is somehow at fault and the only thing that is missing is the set of facts detailing that fault.

I used to date an editor and she told me -- with a sly smile -- that such linguistic underhandedness is pretty much the first tool for any editor if a rag want to cast a first impression without appearing too obvious about it.

Above is a post by retired USAF officer, and the last two lines explain quite the working of media. They can tamper with the words they use and the story is taken to a complete new leve





Question: Why would the world want to show ISI as an 'terrorist organization', even within the Pakistani citizens?

ISI has been professional and strong, countering every threat from other Intelligence agencies and gathering Indian intelligence with great efficiency and success rate, using unique and one-of-it’s kind tactics. Despite the repeated attempted, all direct attacks on ISI by multiple different agencies have done nothing good for them.With ISI gone, Pakistan is open to any attack from any direction, military less powerful and clueless on what to do. This forced the 'enemy' to opt for plan B and engage ISI indirectly, targeting ISI’s biggest motive, Pakistani nation.

Why? Here is a hint. This is extract from my earlier short analysis, made right after South Sudan came into existence.

Want to break any nation?
Want it make any country break to pieces?
Want to destabilize an entire Nation which may never stand again?
Yes you can do it now in just 5 simple steps!



1) Buy several political parties, hiring speakers to target ethnical weakness and complexions of people.
2) Create a gap between Army and citizens.
3) Work under the covers; engage other political parties to create chaos (as in reference to Karachi’s situation).
4) Create huge, baseless misunderstandings in the people’s hearts, based on ethnical complexions using stage 1.
5) Watch the once united country break.

Declaration of details:

1) Buy several political parties, hiring speakers to target ethnical weakness and complexions of people.
With many groups and personal choices of people, they would rather stand by people sharing the same opinions than others, like earlier. These party men would pamper their followers with sugar-coated words, bring them into an illusion that they are being left out and they deserve more. This would create hatred. Best example that comes in my mind: Leader of Party X who says that ‘Oh look! We are being left behind, the Punjabis hate us and they run the government excusing out people from power! We pay the tax and the money goes to the Punjabis! This is not going to be tolerated!’

Willingly or unwillingly, people fall in such plots and tend to have hatred for other sects and ethnical background.


2) Create a gap between Army and citizens.

After you create a gap between people and Army, there would soon be anti-Army riots and protests. People would go against the decisions taken by Army, coming out on roads and well, you get the picture. The Army, reluctant to do anything, steps-in to cool thing down, using force if requires. This would add fuel to the fire, and we can take the initial days of Hosni Mubarak being overthrown in Egypt as an example of this. Both sides would be outraged and envy other, resulting, army less willing to do more. In case of terrorist attack and hostage situation, Special Services would rather ask police to go with their Elite team than risk their lives for people who hate them and are ungrateful.

3) Work under the covers; engage other political parties to create chaos (as in reference to Karachi’s situation).

Working hidden, example again would be best suitable from Karachi’s situation, would result in gang wars which we have seen many. With a complex situation, this could result in ultimate doom. For example, a person from Party A kills 4 members of Party X when the situation of Party X and Party Y were in hot waters. Guess who the blame goes to? As avenge, 8 members of Party Y would be killed by members of Party X and retaliation continues. This would even ignite armed fights between supporters or these parties.

4) Create huge, baseless misunderstandings in the people’s hearts, based on ethnical complexions using stage 1.

After things mentioned above happen, this step is same like last one. Example, I was told that Shia sect commit shirk and claim that Prophet Mohammed (S.A.W.S) wasn't the last Prophet but Ali (A.S) was saying Prophet-hood was accidently revealed to Mohammed (S.A.W.S). On my inquiry with close Shia friends, they opposed it saying it’s completely biased and baseless, made to spread hatred. Such misunderstandings would make situations worse and the people would want to break away from others, and be ‘independent’.

5) Watch the once united country break.

This is the fun part! Get some popcorn, sit back on your couch and watch how ruthless ‘revolution’ sparks with well over 150 sects each fighting other. Brotherhood named word would no longer exist. Congratulations! You just saved Billions of dollars, the lives of your men, military hardware and think tank’s efforts! The country you wished to destroy, chose destruction herself without your army interfering in it’s matters!

Back to topic, this is the actual mission for international media and intelligence agencies to spread false propaganda against ISI. But I don’t get it, what is the excuse for the immature, one-sided Pakistani media? Attention seekers or trend followers?


Question: If ISI is successful in it’s missions and objectives, why does it not publish reports and making them open for civilians?

The field of intelligence does not work in this way. Only a poor agency would publish their success, their findings, their missions etc. These reports would be used by 'enemy' intelligence and they would hence, find a loophole just from reports and understand the nature of counter. The best agencies never disclose anything about the operations, making people into believe no such operations have occurred which were however accomplished by the agency!

Question: If ISI is successful, why would there be unrest in Balochistan and KPK?

'For every 2 attacks, we foil 8 others - ISI'

This speaks a lot. The backbones of TTP and BLA have been broken, and they can now no longer survive for too long and eventually all of it would be wiped out, thanks to input from ISI and hard work of FC, military, para-military and militia all working under ISI.

The situation of Balochistan and locals asking for 'Freedom' or 'Liberation' is only presented on the Internet especially on Indian blogs and facebook. The ground realities are however quite different. I know many people with background from Balochistan living in other parts of Pakistan (and world) who don't share same feelings. Actually I never ever came across a 'real Baloch' who is asking for 'liberation'.

This doesn't prove that there are no liberation feelings. A few men have fallen into the trap and hopefully would recover. The most attention-seekers are just three tribes (with most power in the region) and using terrorism as their tool having foreign sponsors. However terrorism is not an option as they could use better means of communication, hence I fully support a military operation against these miscreants who have been a headache for FC, Pakistani citizens in the region and Pakistan in international community.

(More information on the tribes: These tribes have been the leaders of Balochistan for centuries and wish for their failing empire to go on. These corrupt, power-hungry bulldogs have nothing better to do than terrorize the people to keep them under their power.)

You can find more on Balochistan here: http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...-propaganda-campaign-against-balochistan.html

And if anyone wishes for proof of ISI's work against terrorism, view these threads:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/128013-isi-arrests-senior-al-qaeda-leaders-quetta.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...r-terrorist-attack-all-over-pakistan-eid.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/106054-pakistani-forces-against-militants.html

A part of ISI is dedicated to counter-terrorism measures. This is namely ‘Anti-Insurgency Department’. Being an Military Intelligence agency, this matter should not be covered by ISI. Actually is the responsibility of civilian security forces and intelligence. However, be grateful, knowing the civilian cannot tackle themselves, ISI decided to diversify and add more objectives to their responsibilities. What force? Why divide the limited funding into this matter? Just for the security of Pakistan and Pakistani residents… including you… who rather end up in shame and disgrace speaking against the work of ISI!

Question: If ISI is yet so powerful, why did it fail in Raymond Davis's case?

Well, I counter this question by asking 'Who said Raymond Davis's case was a failure?'. I am not sure if this is true or not, but my intelligence says that Raymond Davis was being tracked and followed, by ISI. After he was caught, this is supposed to be considered as an big achievement. During the investigations, he mentioned all the working of CIA in Pakistan, his fellow agents and his tasks. ISI's S-Wing had carried about operations and rounded up dozens of agents of non-Pakistani nationality, who have been sent back. No media took enough care to feature this.

Question: How would you defend the ISI kidnapping and killing innocent civilians?

If you are talking about the 'missing person' case, I’ve got the perfect reply. Imagine how it is like, after hard work by Pakistani forces and ISI in the operations against militancy, the commanders who have been arrested by military forces got good lawyers and hence they were given bail by the Anti-Terrorism-Court. I mean what the hell? You caught a person fighting you and probably killing your comrade in the battle field, and the same person is declared innocent due to a good defense lawyer? Do you expect the anti-insurgency to sit idol and do nothing about it? These commanders used to go back and fighting more fiercely, with the experience in previous battle, knowing the tactics used by Pakistan Army.

The 'missing person' are actually terrorists caught in the line of fire, and set free by court to practise militancy. What else would you expect the Army to do?

Bonus hint: About 90% of media outlets of Pakistan including The News (Jang/Geo) are owned by two minorities group. No offense intended, just think about it

UPDATED: First revised and edited version.

Regards.

This is the civilian-version of the report hence I have tried to make it neutral and balance the things out; avoided posting information on working and missions.

 

[SEAL]

Its just because of ISI terrorism is gradually decreased and soon we will see peace in Balouchistan as well.
Few rotten eggs make it look bad but we have to support the organisation at all cost.

Beside you must understand there is a difference in carrying blue passport and green ordinary passport your future depends on the decision of these jernails, the humiliation Pakistan faced after OBL raid you can imagine how tuff this is.

 

[airmarshal]

We need laws to try these war criminals. If these terrorists go to the civilian courts, they get released because civil laws dont cover insurgency or terror related crimes.

The responsibility lies with those idiots sitting in the assemblies to formulate laws to deal with the terrorists. It is them who call 'parliament' supreme when the courts act on corruption. This non-serious attitude is bringing the courts in disrepute and also affecting the morale of our forces.

To counter ISI at the country level, our enemies have unleashed Asma Jahangir types on the TV. Our media is extremely immature and I would call it 'laanti and awaara'. They have no sense of national responsibility.

 

[Rafi]

Intel is largely responsible for the attacks going down, every month - plots are wound up, suspects arrested, explosives seized, takfiri killed and captured, these institutions are working around the clock - so Pakistanis can sleep at night.

Externally we maintain our information gathering assets to maintain knowledge about adversary personnel and organizations, it is a constant effort.

 

[nadeem_ak65]

I pray to Allah that all that is written is true, since I love Pakistan Army, MI and ISI. May Allah grant them success to restore peace in my country which is being attacked by external forces and internal forces. May Allah guide the misdirected traitors; media and pseudo intellectuals. Ameen.

 

[Icarus]

Well-written and detailed analysis of the ISI and the prevailing situation.
I can only hope our people begin to appreciate the sacrifices these people render for the country, like Irfan Bhai said:

"You people think you know the ISI (or other intel outlets)? I'd like you to try and name one man from the ISI who died in the line of duty"

 

[SamantK]

Yeah I'm sure you guys hollering about how Pakistan is the epicenter of terrorism is just a figment of our imagination too !

believe as you wish, if you cannot see what is there to see for yourself then even that figment is inconsequential..

 

[xyxmt]

India is the evil one, right from the start it has had been trying to break Pakistan.

Thanks for showing again how you people think!

you are welcome, now go back to cooking ignorance ki roti

 

[SamantK]

Indeed and what happens if one starts seeing things when there is nothing there ? It appears that such has become an article of faith in India.

If we alone are saying something then what you say might make sense.. but then its not just us, this was also countered by OP that they are trying to break Pakistan but the question arises why an ally?

 

[SamantK]

'Scapegoat'...? And if this is a numbers game then doesn't China along with Pakistan make India out to be the culprit in about a dozen things ? Don't Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have problems with some of your policies ?

Right, as I said scapegoat even when they were your allies(I'm not talking about the present)?

Obviously a dozen things can be made out, policies do clash, we also helped SL in clearing their LTTE problem..

 

[Last Hope]

I did not create this thread for such posts.

The moderators did not obey the first few lines, sadly neither did the members. This was just a draft I produced in about an hours time and will some give it more points and professionally touch. However, next time I would post any such article in the 'Think Tank Forum' unless the members show some maturity.

Icarus: I would appreciate if you forward me any information and stories which you are aware of, and would strengthen my text.

 

[Armstrong]

I did not create this thread for such posts.

The moderators did not obey the first few lines, sadly neither did the members. This was just a draft I produced in about an hours time and will some give it more points and professionally touch. However, next time I would post any such article in the 'Think Tank Forum' unless the members show some maturity.

Icarus: I would appreciate if you forward me any information and stories which you are aware of, and would strengthen my text.

My Apologies...I'll delete them now ! By the way - Was this supposed to be written on behalf of an individual from ISI, by him/her directly or was it your informed opinion ?

 

[Last Hope]

My Apologies...I'll delete them now ! By the way - Was this supposed to be written on behalf of an individual from ISI, by him/her directly or was it your informed opinion ?

This has been written by me, after threads like these:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/201727-why-everyone-out-discredit-isi.html

Intentions were to clarify every doubt, once and for all, and this thread being used as standard reply to any upcoming queries.

 

[SamantK]

Indeed...these are after-all narratives backed up by just the right 'assertions' from a whole pool of jumbled up truths, half-truths and out-right lies. We've got a narrative on the Afghan War and if I've understood it to be it goes something to the effect of : We fought the Afghan war because we feared that the Soviets would over-run Pakistan the next and we found a very generous and willing ally in the International Community (NATO, China and a whole bunch of other countries !). And so we fought the war and won it but then when there came a time to rehabilitate all the Mujahideen back into society and to gave some semblance of stability to Afghanistan; the world left us alone with 4-6 million Afghan refugees and a whole country where generations knew nothing but fighting ! In the midst of all of that we saw an opportunity emerging that would bring some sort of stability to Afghanistan and end the incessant blood-shed that had torn the country apart and was threatening to tear Pakistan's Northern and North-Western Areas apart too. That opportunity came in the form of a rag-tag bunch of Mujahideen and a fresh batch of students from their seminaries *the same ones who had provided the initial foot-soldiers for the Jihad*. We didn't like it...we didn't patronize them but we understand it to be the best decision in trying to make the best out of a very...very bad situation ! And lo the Taliban were born !

Naturally mistakes were made...huge mistakes in hindsight but our contention is that none of them were remotely malicious as our friends from across the border or now the International Community is saying ! You guys naturally have a different view point on what happened ! So again I say - They're just narratives...ours vs yours, yours vs someone else's and so on and so forth !

I agree with most of what you have said, however, let us separate the people from the rulers or the decision makers.. cause you and me are pretty inconsequential in our thinking..


Zia, according to me made most of the mistakes and I would like to say that he knew what he was doing..

He knew that an irregular attack on Afghanistan would lead to mass movement of people, which obviously crossed over to become a curse on Pakistan..

Second, he took the support of Mawdudi in Islamization.. He thought that the method which could be used to bring down Soviet could be used to break up Kashmir from India...

 

[Bratva]

in short. ISI has so far struggled to contain the cancer and eradicating the cancer is still very far away.

since Icarus knows better OP should get his opinion on the sacrifices of Civilian Intel agencies. Namely SIG of FIA, Special Branch of Police, Intelligence Bureau.