ISAF (NATO) Killed 3 Pakistani Soldiers @ Pak-Afghan Check Post (Again)

[TaimiKhan]

No PR416/2010-ISPR Dated: September 30, 2010
Rawalpindi - September 30, 2010:

A spokesman of ISPR said that today at 0525 hours two helicopters from Afghanistan appeared to have crossed the border into Pakistan at Mandata Kandaho, Ali Mangola area of Upper Kurram Agency and engaged through cannon fire on an outpost of Frontier Corps, located 200 meters inside Pakistan (location of post shared with ISAF), manned by six soldiers. Troops of Frontier Corps present at the post retaliated through rifle fire to indicate that the helicopters were crossing into our territory. Instead of heeding to the warning, helicopters went to fire two missiles, destroying the post. As a result, three FC soldiers have embraced shahadat (killed) and three have been injured. This is the third incident of its kind during past one week. In the wake of the last incident on 27 September, contact was made at the highest military level and the incident was regretted by the USA.

 

[anon45]

There you go!
27 Nato fuel tankers torched in rocket attack
SHIKARPUR: More than 27 oil tankers, meant for Nato’s fuel supply and another three vehicles, have been torched after some unidentified assailants fired rockets, which resulted in eruption of raging blazes, meanwhile two men suffered injuries in the incident, Geo News reported.

Confirming the rocket attacks, Nato sources told media, the ambush took place near Shikarpur Super Highway where Nato and ISAF’s over 30 fuel tankers were parked at a fuel station.

Around 2am, unknown miscreants unleashed rocket assault, which raged fierce fire in consequence, while the blazes engulfed 27 tankers, laden with highly inflammable fuel, coupled with abutting areas, witnesses said.

Also, two unknown civilians were burnt in the onslaught and three vehicles, parked nearby, caught fire to be burned completely in the long run.

“Shikarpur police have placed stern cordon around district”, DCO Saeed Ahmed said, informing that nearly 15-20 men were behind the attack.

He said supply tankers, en-route to Afghanistan, were staying at a gas station for fuel filling purpose as the ambush occurred.

“Fire tenders have arrived on the site and rescue efforts have got underway”, he told media, fearing that given the strength of fire, rescue members have been facing hardships to bring raging blazes under control.

Shikarpur district has been cordoned off after attack, DCO added.
27 Nato fuel tankers torched in rocket attack - GEO.tv

So supply lines getting attacked is new ?

 

[SEAL]

USA/Nato knows **** about A'stan. ISAF command should be under control of Pakistan.
Question arises if we help them to win WOT what the hell we've achieved except the loss of 35billion$ and 10,000 lives?
Its time to send clear cut message to the US, if you wanna win than support Kashmiri people for their freedom thats it.

 

[General General]

I dont think any one is scared of Pakistans Nuclear weapons, but if Pakistan is going to provide Sanctuary to terrorist and the Taliban, then we need to get out or take on Pakistan. Personally I vote to get out. Consider Pakistan a nation that support the Taliban and Terrorism and deal with reality. I am agreeing with you fellows, you are 100 percent right.

I dare you to define "terrorism".

 

[TaimiKhan]

I dare you to define "terrorism".

Asking Americans to define terrorism ???

Joke of the day.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I am not defending America's intrusion. Simply highlighting lack of procedure followed by the FC men. Please understand that Pakistan is not in a state of declared war with USA. In absence of a war, there is a set procedure to be followed for every engagement. .

Karan you have brought up the protocol issue few times, unless if I have missed any post I don’t think your point has been picked up reference to friendly fire incidents.
Before I start I have few questions

1. does ISAF exercise same protocol, care & procedures while dealing with Pakistani forces like it would with its member country forces?
2. Does ISAF class it as blue on blue? A friendly fire incident?
3. were the pilots in contact with their mission control before they opened fire?
Please have a look at these 2 videos and decide for your self. it relates to an incident in Iraq when a pair of A-10s attacked a British convey killing 1 and wounding one soldier.

(2nd part, the truth is realised, Brits get through the radio and request them to stop shooting)

(first part, the clueless pilots & ground control)

Few Points to note
The pilot and the ground control were talking about different targets
They didn’t have the situational awareness
The pilots couldn’t distinguish between orange panels (to denote friendly units and confused them with rocket launchers
Even the flares fired by British were ignored
The pilots are heard joking about the Brits signalling something when they make the second strafing pass.
Once the truth dawns upon them then the same cocky pilots turn into drama queens.

Some Analyis
Now imagine that it took 15 minutes (according to the posted footage) or maybe more in reality for the British to get through to them trigger happy gun nuts to stop shooting. You can hear the British accented guy at 3:45 of the second video requesting them to “abort”. Just imagine two most advanced armed forces in the world took that long to get the message through after taking two casualties.

What also didn’t help was the fact that the US pilots were using differing and varying frequencies. just imagine this happened among two most likely partners in almost every conflict since WW2.

Pakistani Border incident
Point is what chance would some Pakistani have trying to communicate them to stop shooting at them? The language being the biggest issue where both sides might not understand that well. I totally agree after this episode the protocol and rules of engagement really need a serious overhaul. But protocol can mean no more than a waste of time and space if such attacks are intentional and in line with some ISAF policy to get Pakistan in a corner.

Finally
it will be interesting to see what radio chatter did the pilots had among themselves or their ground control. I doubt if there would be any sign of resource. Most likely some racist remarks and giggles that are a trade mark of this video game console generation turned solders of the United states.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Asking Americans to define terrorism ???

Joke of the day.

not sure if I am the only one thinking that this Capiton America needs some rest from this forum.
his posts are mostly inconsiderate and fanning the flames

 

[karan.1970]

Karan you have brought up the protocol issue few times, unless if I have missed any post I don’t think your point has been picked up reference to friendly fire incidents.
Before I start I have few questions

1. does ISAF exercise same protocol, care & procedures while dealing with Pakistani forces like it would with its member country forces?
2. Does ISAF class it as blue on blue? A friendly fire incident?
3. were the pilots in contact with their mission control before they opened fire?
Please have a look at these 2 videos and decide for your self. it relates to an incident in Iraq when a pair of A-10s attacked a British convey killing 1 and wounding one soldier.

(2nd part, the truth is realised, Brits get through the radio and request them to stop shooting)
YouTube - American Friendly Fire on British Troops in Iraq - pt.2

(first part, the clueless pilots & ground control)
YouTube - American Friendly Fire on British Troops in Iraq - pt.1

Few Points to note
The pilot and the ground control were talking about different targets
They didn’t have the situational awareness
The pilots couldn’t distinguish between orange panels (to denote friendly units and confused them with rocket launchers
Even the flares fired by British were ignored
The pilots are heard joking about the Brits signalling something when they make the second strafing pass.
Once the truth dawns upon them then the same cocky pilots turn into drama queens.

Some Analyis
Now imagine that it took 15 minutes (according to the posted footage) or maybe more in reality for the British to get through to them trigger happy gun nuts to stop shooting. You can hear the British accented guy at 3:45 of the second video requesting them to “abort”. Just imagine two most advanced armed forces in the world took that long to get the message through after taking two casualties.

What also didn’t help was the fact that the US pilots were using differing and varying frequencies. just imagine this happened among two most likely partners in almost every conflict since WW2.

Pakistani Border incident
Point is what chance would some Pakistani have trying to communicate them to stop shooting at them? The language being the biggest issue where both sides might not understand that well. I totally agree after this episode the protocol and rules of engagement really need a serious overhaul. But protocol can mean no more than a waste of time and space if such attacks are intentional and in line with some ISAF policy to get Pakistan in a corner.

Finally
it will be interesting to see what radio chatter did the pilots had among themselves or their ground control. I doubt if there would be any sign of resource. Most likely some racist remarks and giggles that are a trade mark of this video game console generation turned solders of the United states.

Thats my point exactly. During the BRitish US incident, even when US aircraft was firing on British, did they fire back even once? Wasnt that case even worse than a 200 meter intrusion into Pakistan?

In Pakistani incident case, the FC guys actually initiated hostility by firing at the choppers. There was no warning given to inform the Chopper about its intrusion.

Once that happens, the choppers are weapons free and are allowed to respond with deadly force. It was a deliberate attack on an ally nation's military aircraft. Why the uproar when it fired back thinking that it was under attack by militants.

I think what will be interesting is also the chatter among the FC men prior to firing. They would have also given a choice of expletives with words like Majja chakhate hain and so on. Unfortunately, we will never get to hear that...

 

[General General]

Thats my point exactly. During the BRitish US incident, even when US aircraft was firing on British, did they fire back even once? Wasnt that case even worse than a 200 meter intrusion into Pakistan?

In Pakistani incident case, the FC guys actually initiated hostility by firing at the choppers. There was no warning given to inform the Chopper about its intrusion.

Once that happens, the choppers are weapons free and are allowed to respond with deadly force. It was a deliberate attack on an ally nation's military aircraft. Why the uproar when it fired back thinking that it was under attack by militants.

I think what will be interesting is also the chatter among the FC men prior to firing. They would have also given a choice of expletives with words like Majja chakhate hain and so on. Unfortunately, we will never get to hear that...

Make no mistake about it, the U.S. helicopter knew where it were. Their GPS systems will make sure of that. They knew they were inside Pakistan, they also knew there was a border post in that location. From the videos I have seen of the U.S. military killing either civilians, journalists or allies, I have noticed that they discuss and try to create a logic when there seems to be a misunderstanding. They all try to convince themselves that indeed the target is an enemy. They even start seeing things, like the "rocket launchers" in the above video, and an "rpg" in the below vidoeo:

I'm sure the attack went down similar to this incident.

 

[mjnaushad]

Thats my point exactly. During the BRitish US incident, even when US aircraft was firing on British, did they fire back even once? Wasnt that case even worse than a 200 meter intrusion into Pakistan?

In Pakistani incident case, the FC guys actually initiated hostility by firing at the choppers. There was no warning given to inform the Chopper about its intrusion.

Once that happens, the choppers are weapons free and are allowed to respond with deadly force. It was a deliberate attack on an ally nation's military aircraft. Why the uproar when it fired back thinking that it was under attack by militants.

I think what will be interesting is also the chatter among the FC men prior to firing. They would have also given a choice of expletives with words like Majja chakhate hain and so on. Unfortunately, we will never get to hear that...

Just FYI the FC personal didn't fire at teh chopper.....One can clearly tell when one fire AT the chopper.....Firing in the air on the other side is surely not firing at the chopper....

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Just FYI the FC personal didn't fire at teh chopper.....One can clearly tell when one fire AT the chopper.....Firing in the air on the other side is surely not firing at the chopper....

these gun nuts confused orange panels with rocket lauchers on British vehicles and consured video camera with RPGs. I doubt they would have let the oppertunity of firing in the air go.

they once killed a whole wedding party in Afghanistan because they thought the act of firing in the air ( a usual Pashton custom) was hostile act.

2 words

Ignorence and trigger happy = US pilots in all these civilian & friendly fire incidents

 

[karan.1970]

Make no mistake about it, the U.S. helicopter knew where it were. Their GPS systems will make sure of that. They knew they were inside Pakistan, they also knew there was a border post in that location. From the videos I have seen of the U.S. military killing either civilians, journalists or allies, I have noticed that they discuss and try to create a logic when there seems to be a misunderstanding. They all try to convince themselves that indeed the target is an enemy. They even start seeing things, like the "rocket launchers" in the above video, and an "rpg" in the below vidoeo:
YouTube - WikiLeaks Iraq Shooting Video Analysis

I'm sure the attack went down similar to this incident.

The point I am making is not validating the US intrusion. But discussing the actions from the FC post that could have caused the American chopper to fire on them. Without a radio warning, firing on the chopper of an ally was a flawed decision in my opinion.......

 

[karan.1970]

these gun nuts confused orange panels with rocket lauchers on British vehicles and consured video camera with RPGs. I doubt they would have let the oppertunity of firing in the air go.

they once killed a whole wedding party in Afghanistan because they thought the act of firing in the air ( a usual Pashton custom) was hostile act.

2 words

Ignorence and trigger happy = US pilots in all these civilian & friendly fire incidents

I dont know if you have spent any time in the US. These guys are paranoid about their safety. And live by the book on responding to life threatning situations. Firing in the broad direction of the chopper is construed at firing at them. They wont wait around for the gun to be aimed properly (if they think the people below are gunning for them). They see fire directed towards the sky... that is a threating gesture and they would respond...

 

[General General]

I dont know if you have spent any time in the US. These guys are paranoid about their safety. And live by the book on responding to life threatning situations. Firing in the broad direction of the chopper is construed at firing at them. They wont wait around for the gun to be aimed properly (if they think the people below are gunning for them). They see fire directed towards the sky... that is a threating gesture and they would respond...

I'm afraid you are unfamiliar with some military rules. Here's one of them: When an armed unit of one nation passes over the border into another sovereign nation and comes under attack, they are supposed to immediately turn back. If they engage the incomming fire by retaliating, it is considered an invasion.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

I'm afraid you are unfamiliar with some military rules. Here's one of them: When an armed unit of one nation passes over the border into another sovereign nation and comes under attack, they are supposed to immediately turn back. If they engage the incomming fire by retaliating, it is considered an invasion.

You know, we will play the same game this time. We won't let the U.S 'invade' Pakistan in the strict sense; however, we will build up the pressure on both sides this time in the near future.
You will see a significant blow to the U.S. proxies AFTER their ground troops cross the border more frequently. I actually want the U.S. to do that along with India pressurizing Pakistan.

You will actually see the U.S. going down the drain in South Asian region.
Will the U.S. split like USSR--NO, IT WILL NOT!