Is ZERO even??

[jamahir]

Curiosity takes man forward....
There was nothing complicated being discussed here.Infact the discussion in my POV helped me brush up my concepts.

levina, i am not being hateful in saying this... just an observation... this getting into too much detail and not looking at the big picture... not being spiritual... is why hinduism hasn't contributed to any field greatly... nor astronomy nor computing nor others... all that talk of "zero invented by indians" is just mythology.

so we must look at the big picture and simplify things for ourselves... only that leads to progress... otherwise, what remains is the traditional indian "transfer of technology" from foreign companies and governments

Kill him, not spare him & Kill him not, spare him. Waste of time indeed. Maths may not be science, but foundation for all science. Without maths, no progress can be made. Period.

i replace your comma with triple-dot ( ... )... so i have removed usage of comma but retained meaning, yes?? and i have used comma in the previous sentence... i think i can use triple-dot there too... so i am not following some "grammar expert" there.

maths is for limited use in reality... it is just mythology that maths must be everywhere.

 

[TejasMk3]

What is chakravala method??

It's a recursive method that was used to generate solutions to such equations, from trivial solutions like (1,0). It is based of another concept called Brahmagpta's identity.
The actual method itself is quite easy to use. You basically need to plug in values till you get Kr=1 for the solution.
Chakravala technique

The theory behind this method is a bit more complex:
Brahmagupta's identity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chakravala method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.isibang.ac.in/~sury/chakravala.pdf

I get the method, and roughly the idea of why it's done this, but not completely.

 

[Levina]

levina, i am not being hateful in saying this... just an observation... this getting into too much detail and not looking at the big picture... not being spiritual... is why hinduism hasn't contributed to any field greatly... nor astronomy nor computing nor others... all that talk of "zero invented by indians" is just mythology.

so we must look at the big picture and simplify things for ourselves... only that leads to progress... otherwise, what remains is the traditional indian "transfer of technology" from foreign companies and governments



i replace your comma with triple-dot ( ... )... so i have removed usage of comma but retained meaning, yes?? and i have used comma in the previous sentence... i think i can use triple-dot there too... so i am not following some "grammar expert" there.

maths is for limited use in reality... it is just mythology that maths must be everywhere.

Jamahir, I can't see your flags as I'm using mobile to access this site.But I'm assuming you must be Paksitani who finds it hard to believe that Indians knew zilch about zero before the Brits came to india.
"Zero invented by Indians" is NOT a mythology.
Why such plethora of feelings against a harmless zero and its discussion??

Don't mistake my post to be hateful...for its not.
I'm sure you do know that civilisations living in India were far more advanced than one can imagine. So let's not parrot what the Britishers propagated..that we Indians knew nothing before the holy angels from Britain came to enlighten us.

 

[jamahir]

Jamahir, I can't see your flags as I'm using mobile to access this site.

my country flag is "libyan jamahiriya" and my location flag is "india"... any member can tell you that and the mods will confirm.

But I'm assuming you must be Paksitani

so anyone from india who has contempt for hinduism is automatically pakistani?? hardly "pluralistic" of you...

i am the same socialist jamahir who spoke against the concept of nationalism in that egypt thread those months back... you can refer there.

i assure you... i am very much in india... didn't i offer to meet indrani in bangalore?? or are you saying, i am some isi funded spy on a "love jihad" mission?? i wish that was the case... there are many hindu ladies to charm, including some from this forum

who finds it hard to believe that Indians knew zilch about zero before the Brits came to india

indians before british?? or hindus, you mean??

i didn't say hindus didn't know of zero... i just said zero has long existed before hinduism began 3000 years ago in some irani culture region west of afghanistan.

Why such plethora of feelings against a harmless zero and its discussion??

I'm sure you do know that civilisations living in India were far more advanced than one can imagine.

see... this is what most discussion turn into... unnecessary complicated discussions... anti-history fantasies... generalizations... without any references.

the holy angels from Britain

well, those holy angels wholly created the deobandi mullah school to destroy islam in south asia... then later they worked with their devils... mullahs and hindu mahasabha... to kill and jail many indian socialists.

---

i leave to you to decide about me,
salaams...

 

[Spade]

levina, i am not being hateful in saying this... just an observation... this getting into too much detail and not looking at the big picture... not being spiritual... is why hinduism hasn't contributed to any field greatly... nor astronomy nor computing nor others... all that talk of "zero invented by indians" is just mythology.

so we must look at the big picture and simplify things for ourselves... only that leads to progress... otherwise, what remains is the traditional indian "transfer of technology" from foreign companies and governments



i replace your comma with triple-dot ( ... )... so i have removed usage of comma but retained meaning, yes?? and i have used comma in the previous sentence... i think i can use triple-dot there too... so i am not following some "grammar expert" there.

maths is for limited use in reality... it is just mythology that maths must be everywhere.

Genius.... simply genius.... you do not use 1 character where you could have used 3. Plus, you do not understand zero the place holder symbol and zero the number. Any civilization using any type limited symbol and position based number system must use zero the place holder (say to represent "0" in 10). Mayans and babylonians did that. However, all their number system started with 1. That was the least they could think of, lowest possible number/count in their world. What Brahmagupta did was to treat zero as a number itself. So Indian number system began from -ve infinity, went through 0 and ended in + infinity. His genius can be understood that even some "intellectuals" like you have hard time grasping that.....

he was a genius no doubt about it

he invented this spherical quadriletarals possible and lets give it to him no problems

but he invented zero and took mathematics to this all in his one life span not possible

Why not? Newton took physics to basically from zero to what it was before Einstein, then Einstein took it quantum level. So, we know that some individual can radically transform a field just in his/her lifetime. I am still not getting why one has to be hesitant to accept that. I agree, there is a chance that he might have just written down the common knowledge at the time. But we got no proof of it. Until we get some evidence, the credit of transforming the field of mathematics should go to Brahmagupta.

 

[jamahir]

Genius.... simply genius.... you do not use 1 character where you could have used 3.

the triple-dot ( ... ) is more natural... it can convey more feeling than the comma.

Plus, you do not understand zero the place holder symbol and zero the number. Any civilization using any type limited symbol and position based number system must use zero the place holder (say to represent "0" in 10). Mayans and babylonians did that. However, all their number system started with 1. That was the least they could think of, lowest possible number/count in their world. What Brahmagupta did was to treat zero as a number itself. So Indian number system began from -ve infinity, went through 0 and ended in + infinity. His genius can be understood that even some "intellectuals" like you have hard time grasping that.....

sincerely, a number value like "infinity" is just human usage and agreement... it does not find existance in nature.

 

[Spade]

the triple-dot ( ... ) is more natural... it can convey more feeling than the comma.



sincerely, a number value like "infinity" is just human usage and agreement... it does not find existance in nature.

LOL... tell me how many points are there in a line??

 

[jamahir]

LOL... tell me how many points are there in a line??

depends on what you want to measure, yes?? or will you go into trance and say "infinite"?? in that case, why bother talking about points on a line.

 

[Trawllu]

Genius.... simply genius.... you do not use 1 character where you could have used 3. Plus, you do not understand zero the place holder symbol and zero the number. Any civilization using any type limited symbol and position based number system must use zero the place holder (say to represent "0" in 10). Mayans and babylonians did that. However, all their number system started with 1. That was the least they could think of, lowest possible number/count in their world. What Brahmagupta did was to treat zero as a number itself. So Indian number system began from -ve infinity, went through 0 and ended in + infinity. His genius can be understood that even some "intellectuals" like you have hard time grasping that.....



Why not? Newton took physics to basically from zero to what it was before Einstein, then Einstein took it quantum level. So, we know that some individual can radically transform a field just in his/her lifetime. I am still not getting why one has to be hesitant to accept that. I agree, there is a chance that he might have just written down the common knowledge at the time. But we got no proof of it. Until we get some evidence, the credit of transforming the field of mathematics should go to Brahmagupta.

see there are so many other people like ayrabhatta, varamihir etc

now it is not only about maths but many sciences like astronomy ans astrology based on maths

i am not saying none of what he wrote down was his work
what i am simply saying is the basic of mathematics zero and the place system were invented ages ago by someone else

yes this guy developed on the base knowledge and developed cyclic quadrilaterals ans what not on his own

 

[Spade]

depends on what you want to measure, yes?? or will you go into trance and say "infinite"?? in that case, why bother talking about points on a line.

I just asked you to measure "number" of points... lol... no wonder you have grammer and english... Why ask points and line? because line is a real world phenomenon that everyone can see. You can't say otherwise right?

see there are so many other people like ayrabhatta, varamihir etc

now it is not only about maths but many sciences like astronomy ans astrology based on maths

i am not saying none of what he wrote down was his work
what i am simply saying is the basic of mathematics zero and the place system were invented ages ago by someone else

yes this guy developed on the base knowledge and developed cyclic quadrilaterals ans what not on his own

How do you know this? What is the evidence?

 

[jamahir]

I just asked you to measure "number" of points... lol... no wonder you have grammer and english... Why ask points and line? because line is a real world phenomenon that everyone can see. You can't say otherwise right?

sorry, but you are congratulating yourself on an undecided discussion... which line in the real world do you want to measure?? to what criteria?? is this line a road?? is it the distance to the next star system??

see... this is what i was telling levina... mathematics cannot be pursued by itself as science... it needs a real science to be useful... one may have certain agreed calculations but they should not turn into a separate field.

what if i tell you that microprocessors need not have extra circuits for "floating point operations" because instead of numbers being represented as ( main number.sub number ), they can be represented as ( main number, sub number ) because that will reduce circuitry in the processor and simplify things by removing the decimal dot??

 

[Trawllu]

How do you know this? What is the evidence?

what is the period this person bh=rahmagupta is supposed to have lived in ........ 598 AD ok

so it makes 2014-598 = 1416 years ago

now lets see what is the mahabharat period ...........?
when did mahabharat happened ? how mnay years ago ?

more than 1416 years ... ie. pre BC era ?

when were the vedas written ? pre BC era ?

now if in Mahahrata / vedas if there is mention of astronmy, kaal time and these are based on our decimal system

then it means that decimal system (and thus existence of zero) predates the birth of Brahmagupta

also there is research that the birth date of Aryabhatta has been forward dated and that aryabhatta actually was born in BC era

 

[Spade]

sorry, but you are congratulating yourself on an undecided discussion... which line in the real world do you want to measure?? to what criteria?? is this line a road?? is it the distance to the next star system??

see... this is what i was telling levina... mathematics cannot be pursued by itself as science... it needs a real science to be useful... one may have certain agreed calculations but they should not turn into a separate field.

what if i tell you that microprocessors need not have extra circuits for "floating point operations" because instead of numbers being represented as ( main number.sub number ), they can be represented as ( main number, sub number ) because that will reduce circuitry in the processor and simplify things by removing the decimal dot??

Where did you see myself congratulating? Who is claiming maths to be science? Science is based on iteration (observe, hypothesis, experiment and repeat) and nothing is 100% sure in science. Maths is dead opposite. You can't be unsure of answers, everything is universally same and definite. But maths is the language of science. Some say it is even language of nature, but lets not go there. Maths can live happily without any science, but not the other way around. And then, I like the dilly-dally you do to complete a single task. Count number of points in a line, "any line". if you want more spec, just draw a line with a pen on a paper which is 10 cm long and start counting number of points in it. And there is no line between here and next star system... you must be hating maths along with english...
About microprocessor, why do you tell me? go ahead and sell your idea to mp designing companies. make billions, then it proves what you are telling is true. Else you are just bullshitting. Whoever designed mp is certainly smarter than you. Atleast in oopl you need main.sub structure so as not to confuse with different sub numbers...

what is the period this person bh=rahmagupta is supposed to have lived in ........ 598 AD ok

so it makes 2014-598 = 1416 years ago

now lets see what is the mahabharat period ...........?
when did mahabharat happened ? how mnay years ago ?

more than 1416 years ... ie. pre BC era ?

when were the vedas written ? pre BC era ?

now if in Mahahrata / vedas if there is mention of astronmy, kaal time and these are based on our decimal system

then it means that decimal system (and thus existence of zero) predates the birth of Brahmagupta

also there is research that the birth date of Aryabhatta has been forward dated and that aryabhatta actually was born in BC era

Why are you confusing decimal system symbol (or placeholder) zero with number zero? even mayans wrote 10 (in decimal system). They had different symbol to denote "0" in 10. But they had zero. What Brahmagupta invented is a number, similar to 1. Before him, there was no solution to the problem 1-1 (or 10-10 or 10-11 for that matter). It was considered invalid. I hope you know the difference.

 

[Levina]

my country flag is "libyan jamahiriya" and my location flag is "india"... any member can tell you that and the mods will confirm.

what does jamhiriya mean?

so anyone from india who has contempt for hinduism is automatically pakistani?? hardly "pluralistic" of you...

I said I am assuming that you're a Pakistani because most of the Pakistanis on this forum are anti-India and would do anything to prove Indians inferior.

i am the same socialist jamahir who spoke against the concept of nationalism in that egypt thread those months back... you can refer there.

I dont know about it.

i assure you... i am very much in india... didn't i offer to meet indrani in bangalore?? or are you saying, i am some isi funded spy on a "love jihad" mission?? i wish that was the case... there are many hindu ladies to charm, including some from this forum

Yes I read it last nite too.

indians before british?? or hindus, you mean??

i didn't say hindus didn't know of zero... i just said zero has long existed before hinduism began 3000 years ago in some irani culture region west of afghanistan.

Any material to back that claim?

see... this is what most discussion turn into... unnecessary complicated discussions... anti-history fantasies... generalizations... without any references.

try this Dr Stephen Hawking’s Opinion on the Science in Veda

This is what our upnishad teaches....
oḿ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaḿ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

and that is in reference to zero....
oḿ — the Complete Whole; pūrṇam — perfectly complete; adaḥ — that; pūrṇam — perfectly complete; idam — this phenomenal world; pūrṇāt — from the all-perfect; pūrṇam — complete unit;udacyate — is produced; pūrṇasya — of the Complete Whole; pūrṇam — completely, all; ādāya — having been taken away; pūrṇam — the complete ; eva — even; avaśiṣyate — is remaining.

The Isha Upanishad of the Yajurveda (400 BC
Veda: The Origing of the Pure Mathematics - Yougachrya Swami Pranabanandaji Maharaj

i leave to you to decide about me,
salaams...

I'm sure even now you will refuse to believe me.

 

[Rain]

0 is even by assumption not by proof.
regarding bramagupta statement: no comments