Is Turkey a bad model for Arab states? Or is it a good model?

[SherAli]

The Ottomans nearly conquered the whole continent ... it was ultimately bad luck and betrayal (and ridiculously long and unstable supply lines) that led to their decline and then their trade routes were circumvented by euro pirates which really weakened them

Every Turk would prefer the days of Ottoman dominance ... the Turkish people are the greatest warriors in history and showed that they were capable even when massively outclassed in the gallipoli campaign to defend their home land ... Turks are a warrior people at heart, they repeatedly defended Islam from euro christian terrorism and aggression

 

[Deno]

Well their young people are pro western. They would like to get rid of old faces but would have no problem NATO running its activities on soil....
I don't think Turkey is like that anymore. Yes they did want to be part of EU, but now you must be happy all alone...

Actually, Turks don't want to be part of EU which I too don't want Turkey to be in an organization that used by Germany and France as markets for their componies. They actually don't want anything with Islamic regime. Only %7 of citizens want religious regime. And most of them are Kurdish so no, I am not alone wanting nothing to do with religious regime and still wanting to be out of EU.

Goverments are suppost to threat their citizens equily and religious goverments can't do that. While religious person can live his/her life with no trouble in secular state, a secular person can't live his/her life without being opressed in religious regime.

 

[SherAli]

Even in decline and attacked by an entire continent they still attain victory

Battle of Keresztes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this was after they were already exhausted from a long siege

Islam is what gave us Turks, Arabs, Persians, Berbers, Pakistanis, Bengalis honor and izzat and turning away from it is why this ummah is constantly being attacked and degraded

Turks kept these animal euros in their cages and tried to humanize them and when they couldn't you see the result ... every part of the globe is raped, massacred, looted, murdered, destroyed, devastated etc.

Theyve now moved on from murdering non euros to just killing the planet

 

[Deno]

Even in decline and attacked by an entire continent they still attain victory

Battle of Keresztes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this was after they were already exhausted from a long siege

Islam is what gave us Turks, Arabs, Persians, Berbers, Pakistanis, Bengalis honor and izzat and turning away from it is why this ummah is constantly being attacked and degraded

Until 1699 Ottamans were not on ''declining'' chapter of their history. And I said, military strenght does not show states success. Nations success shown by their human rights, peoples fredom and their advancenment of technology. Ottomans had those in early times and they lack these at later stage of their history.

Thats why unprogressive people will always left behind with only their past glories.

 

[SherAli]

economic circumvention was the cause of their decline

euros genocided, raped, and murdered the americas and gained a foothold in India, undermining Ottoman trade

 

[A1Kaid]

Until 1699 Ottamans were not on ''declining'' chapter of their history. And I said, military strenght does not show states success. Nations success shown by their human rights, peoples fredom and their advancenment of technology. Ottomans had those in early times and they lack these at later stage of their history.

Thats why unprogressive people will always left behind with only their past glories.

Ottomans lacked behind in technology not because they didn't embrace technology but due to decline in Governance, lack of Government and economic reform, etc. Islam isn't against embracing new technology. The European powers underwent a rapid pace of industrialization which the Ottoman empire could not match at the time, industrial might of the West surpassed the Ottomans.

So I don't think the Ottomans fell behind due to ideological reasons but the aforementioned reasons.


Edit: There was a long period of stagnation in the Ottoman Empire, attempts were made to re-energize the Empire but failed. I think Ottomans should have focused more on education reform that could have saved the Empire.

 

[SherAli]

Ottomans lacked behind in technology not because they didn't embrace technology but due to decline in Governance, lack of Government and economic reform, etc. Islam isn't against embracing new technology. The European powers underwent a rapid pace of industrialization which the Ottoman empire could not match at the time, industrial might of the West surpassed the Ottomans.

So I don't think the Ottomans fell behind due to ideological reasons but the aforementioned reasons.

They also were ready to kill each other for the crown, which is why the most able candidates to rule were killed and the most incompetent became rulers ... all of the wealth stolen from the Americas started industrialization, and when they robbed Bengal down to its last penny was the final straw ....

If Suleiman Qanooni (rh) takes Vienna in 1529 then the game totally changes ... and the only reason he wasn't able to do it was because of the worst weather conditions to date at the time ...

 

[A1Kaid]

Yes, had the Ottomans conquered Vienna that would have eternalized the Ottoman Empire for being one of the two Empires in human history to rule for a thousand years along with Rome.

 

[SherAli]

None of their big guns even made it due to the horrible weather ... first there was extreme rain which made the terrain difficult to cross and then extreme snow during the siege ... only a fraction even made it to the siege and they were attacked the way there as well ... sickness and disease killed more of them then the defenders of the city ...

 

[agentny17]

As i said earlier, not just Arabs should take Turkey as an example when we talk about democracy, human rights, minorities rights, women rights, religious freedom, ect... but all Muslim majority countries should do too, and that includes Pakistan, Iran, ect...

 

[A1Kaid]

None of their big guns even made it due to the horrible weather ... first there was extreme rain which made the terrain difficult to cross and then extreme snow during the siege ... only a fraction even made it to the siege and they were attacked the way there as well ... sickness and disease killed more of them then the defenders of the city ...

Don't forget the Vienna fortress and wall defense was formidable. Though the Ottomans manage to puncture one or two holes in the wall but they weren't wide enough to send units of troops into the city. They were also outflanked by reinforcement from Polska and Germany and the other European clowns at the time, that came and bailed out Vienna. Ottomans should have prepared the siege better, weather was a factor but not an excuse!

 

[SherAli]

yeah bro, their whole continent couldn't even stop them in a joined effort ... these khanzeers hide behind barriers and walls to this day, reflective of their COWARDICE

and I think that was the battle of vienna in 1683 ... the Crimean Tartars who were supposed to defend bridges and passes while the siege was going on didn't and the christian "allies" didn't fight either ... but the Ottomans still fought like lions on both sides ... another reason was that the Ottomans wanted to capture the city intact, like constantinople, so they avoided large scale destruction ...

 

[DarkPrince]

these days muslims r weak coz they r not gud muslims
there was a time when muslims entered a land the land became theirs
fall of ottoman empire is not because of mustafa kemal
mustafa kemal was trying 2 save what he had that time
it was necessity of the time
reason is ottomans corruptions n fall of the sultans
i ve said it before i ll say it again b a muslim person n a gud muslim
u can conquer anything

 

[RayKalm]

As i said earlier, not just Arabs should take Turkey as an example when we talk about democracy, human rights, minorities rights, women rights, religious freedom, ect... but all Muslim majority countries should do too, and that includes Pakistan, Iran, ect...

Lol, you sir, don't decide what other nations should think. I personally see Turkey as a friend, not a model. Arabs on the other hands are free to believe what they will.

I think Pakistan's democracy is going quite well, it shall keep getting better.

Prime Minister in court, how often do you see that? Free media here too that is VERY vibrant and attacks every politician.

Our democracy is fine.

Arabs should work on theirs before telling others to look for examples.

 

[agentny17]

Lol, you sir, don't decide what other nations should think. I personally see Turkey as a friend, not a model. Arabs on the other hands are free to believe what they will.

I think Pakistan's democracy is going quite well, it shall keep getting better.

Prime Minister in court, how often do you see that? Free media here too that is VERY vibrant and attacks every politician.

Our democracy is fine.

Arabs should work on theirs before telling others to look for examples.

I think all Muslim countries should take Pakistan as an example when we talk about democracy, human rights, minorities rights, women rights, religious freedom, ect..., happy ? Should i add economic plans and policies too ? Whatever makes you happy, Sir!