Is tide turning finally ? Angry mob sets ablaze house of Lashkar operative in Kashmir

[nair]

Few more such incidents they will help identifying those terrorists.....

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy
watched few of ur videos on youtube....

And what did you think bro?


(here is probably not the right place to talk though, mention me in the BIMRAU section if you like )

 

[Dillinger]

Good lord!

Did you even read the link I posted?

Here, I will copy a part of it, although I know you guys will dismiss it as false propaganda.

The statistics speak for themselves. Indian occupation troops have murdered more than 100,000 Kashmiris since 1990. In what must be to India’s lasting shame, there is documented evidence of at least 10,000 Kashmiri women gang-raped by the unruly occupation thugs. They range in age from 7-year-old children to 70-year-old women. The children are raped in front of their parents while the women are gang-raped in front of their husbands or children. Such tactics are used to humiliate the Kashmiris and to force them to abandon their quest for freedom.

The information contained in the report is based on documents obtained under new freedom of information legislation, police statements, the government's own investigations and hundreds of interviews with family members and other witnesses

And this links to the quantum of force deployed in Kashmir how? It talks of select atrocities, which we dealt with in a different post, where I enjoined you to also dig up the data on those who were punished for said offences.

I have been known to be a stickler in the field of dialectics and semantics, so again, where is the proof that the quantum of force present in Kashmir specifically designed (by the very dint of said quantum) to enact a doctrine of psychological warfare.

When a US soldier goes insane and slaughters innocents in a village in Afghanistan the said atrocity does not point to any engineered doctrine enforced by the US/POTUS/US Army which orders the said atrocity to be committed under a lawful command (or well unlawful in this case).

I do not reply to a poster without reading his posts and the entirety of the data involved in said posters links, another well known fact about me.

Of course you only have my good word in as far as my assertion regarding what I am known for is concerned, just as so far we only have your good word regarding the existence of a premeditated and policy driven doctrine of psychological warfare that hinges upon and draws its substance from any specific quantum of force being deployed in Kashmir.

@Abingdonboy Now treat me to one of your "Mess with the best die like the rest" montages

 

[rockstar08]

this put a huge question mark on Kashmiri peoples , do they want freedom or they are happy with indian occupation

 

[Abingdonboy]

this put a huge question mark on Kashmiri peoples , do they want freedom or they are happy with indian occupation

So the pin has finally dropped?



Reminds me of these kind of memes:

 

[halupridol]

And what did you think bro?


(here is probably not the right place to talk though, mention me in the BIMRAU section if you like )

good compilations
excellent music

this put a huge question mark on Kashmiri peoples , do they want freedom or they are happy with indian occupation

they want a prosperous life

 

[rockstar08]

So the pin has finally dropped?



Reminds me of these kind of memes:

I don't think india is in Kashmir for democrazy ?

 

[Developereo]

And this links to the quantum of force deployed in Kashmir how? It talks of select atrocities, which we dealt with in a different post, where I enjoined you to also dig up the data on those who were punished for said offences.

I have been known to be a stickler in the field of dialectics and semantics, so again, where is the proof that the quantum of force present in Kashmir specifically designed (by the very dint of said quantum) to enact a doctrine of psychological warfare.

The psychological humiliation is intended to impress upon Kashmiri civilians that nothing is off-limits for the Indian security forces in their brutality. The larger army is there to make it clear that the local security forces have plenty of backup in case of trouble.

When a US soldier goes insane and slaughters innocents in a village in Afghanistan the said atrocity does not point to any engineered doctrine enforced by the US/POTUS/US Army which orders the said atrocity to be committed under a lawful command (or well unlawful in this case).

I am not making any comparison to isolated incidents by US or other soldiers.

The situation in Kashmir is far from isolated. The numbers are simply staggering, which points to willful complicity at a higher level.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't think india is in Kashmir for democrazy ?

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. The premise behind those memes is that America uses "bringing democracy" as a justification for pursuing its own goals through military action.

Similarly Pakistan uses "liberating the Kashmiri people from Indian occupation" as a crux to pursue their own cause (undermining and attacking India).

Like I said, your comments reminded me of those memes, not that those memes fit with Kashmir or Pakistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

Most of the murders in Kashmir have been by Pakistani Punjabi terrorists that have been dispatched to hell by the brave India forces. Their average age is 16.95 years as confirmed by the international studies of 900 of those dispatched.

No adult wants to do this, so they send brainwashed kids to die.

And they have nowhere managed to kill 100,000 Kashmiris. This is a blatant lie they tell themselves.

OTOH, the 10000 plus Shia killed in Pakistan by the same set of terrorists are a real fact. That is in addition to the 50000 plus others killed by the Islamists in Pakistan.

And they are freedom fighters as well to many in Pakistan.

 

[Dillinger]

The psychological humiliation is intended to impress upon Kashmiri civilians that nothing is off-limits for the Indian security forces in their brutality. The larger army is there to make it clear that the local security forces have plenty of backup in case of trouble.



I am not making any comparison to isolated incidents by US or other soldiers.

The situation in Kashmir is far from isolated. The numbers are simply staggering, which points to willful complicity at a higher level.

And yet again, this is sort of becoming ad infinatum and ad nauseam, where is the link to a directed policy of psychological warfare conducted through orders passed down the established chain of command? Surely the term
"established" and "policy driven", their meaning in the context and the role they play in the current argument have sunk in by now.

What you have is a report alleging atrocities much like there are reports which allege other atrocities carried out by other forces, what I am asking for is any substantiation on the part where such atrocities are carried out under a directed doctrine.

That has been my thrust since this argument began, in fact I have not deviated from the same, we are not arguing whether atrocities have occurred or not. In any low intensity conflict zone collateral damage and atrocities occur, often at a quantum that exceeds even Kahsmir's (Iraq is a prime example or Bangladesh in 71). Surely the nuance is not lost on you, proof or substantiation of your assertion that the exact and allegedly oppressive quantum of force present in Kashmir is directly the result of a mandated doctrine of psychological warfare which states that said quantum will be contributory singularly or in concert to the psychological oppression of the people of the Indian state of Kashmir, that is what is required here. Otherwise there are plenty of articles which allege plenty of things and everyone can chose to hold on to whatever suits their POV or bias the best.

That missteps have occurred does not in anyway substantiate that the Indian state or the Indian people have instituted a doctrine whereby actions which constitute such missteps are treated as officially accepted tactics in pursuit of a larger strategy. Otherwise any and all reports which exhaustively link and allege links between the ISI and a whole myriad of UN proscribed terrorist agencies can be used as incontrovertible proof that Pakistan is in de jure terms a sponsor of state terrorism as such assertions are then to be taken as proof of the existence of an officially mandated Pakistani policy/doctrine to use terrorist organisations as geopolitical tools not just against India but against the world at large.

@SarthakGanguly @Indischer @Skull and Bones @ExtraOdinary You're absence here is keenly felt, I operate at my best when I am heaped with adulation.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

@Vinod2070

Nicely put
if LET is freedom fighters,

then all baloch terrorists are freedom fighters too

all LEJ, sectarian terrorists are freedom fighters

all TTP and its spinter groups are freedom fighters

and Munwar hussain is correct as these freedom fighters are fighting against kuffer foreign occupier Pakistani army and on death they will become shaheed

 

[Vinod2070]

@Vinod2070

Nicely put
if LET is freedom fighters,

then all baloch terrorists are freedom fighters too

all LEJ, sectarian terrorists are freedom fighters

all TTP and its spinter groups are freedom fighters

and Munwar hussain is correct as these freedom fighters are fighting against kuffer foreign occupier Pakistani army and on death they will become shaheed

It is amazing that these people just refuse to change their views despite the world having completely changed around them.

They still continue to support the same terrorists who kill and attack them as well! That is something they hope against hope will be a passing phase and they will be back to murdering kaffirs soon enough.

Of course the propaganda fed since childhood (all those Kashmir diaries on PTV, all those Indian soldiers "halaq"ed and the terrorists "martyr"ed every day in their report, enough for the entire IA to be "halaq"ed over the period of the decades of propaganda) would have an effect.

And it is not easy for pliable minds not encouraged to think beyond rote learning and hating "Hindu India" (that saved them from Islamist persecution in their own country) to change and learn to accept facts.

One does hope such terror support is being monitored somewhere and will lead to consequences.

 

[Aarush]

KASHMIR RAHEGA HINDUSTAN......................

AAGE KI LINE JAN BUJH KE ADD NAI KI........SAMAJNE WALE TO SAMAJ GAYE HONEGE....

 

[Indo-guy]

Militancy in Kashmir is waning....
It's writing on the wall which Pakistan refuses to see that it's Proxy war in Kashmir is a lost cause ....

Sooner it realizes better it will be for everybody !


Here is an old article by Nadeem Paracha regarding why militancy in Kashmir has failed ...


Failure of militancy - DAWN.COM



The moment (in the 1990s) the ‘Kashmir struggle’ allowed its militant aspect to rudely overshadow the doings of the more moderate All Party Hurriyat Conference (APHC) and the Jamuha Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) I was convinced the movement was doomed.
Alas, like most movements (involving Muslims) of the 20th Century that adopted what is called Political Islam as its calling card, the Kashmir militancy too collapsed under its own weight.
Now compare this with the uprising of the Kashmiris in the last two or three years, led by the APHC and JKLF against the Indian state.
One can clearly notice the difference. Like the three Palestinian Intifada movements, the recent Kashmiri uprising too has nothing to do with bombs, beheadings and assorted terrorist tactics. Instead, the movement is now unfolding on the streets with stones, flags, speeches and slogans confronting bullets, arrests and teargas.
This movement has put the Indian government and state under more domestic and international pressure than the armed militant movement was ever able to.
In fact, armed militancy in this respect has actually mutated and mangled the look of the whole issue, attracting more condemnation than sympathy.
And, barring Pakistan, this condemnation did not only come from countries that are expected to play a more sympathetic role towards the Kashmiris’ legitimate demands of self-determination. The bulk of the Kashmiris too were left feeling exhausted and cornered by the actions of the armed militants.
In other words, uprisings in Kashmir in the last five years are not only a conformation of the Kashmiris’ resolute commitment to look for its own destiny as a nation, but in a way, it is also a bold act of stamping a seal of disapproval against the tactics of the armed groups.
So what went wrong, or for that matter, right?
The movement that revived itself in 1987 when the Kashmiris accused the Indian government of rigging that year’s polls in the valley was soon overtaken and infiltrated by elements advocating an armed uprising against the Indian state.
The inspiration in this respect was the armed success of the mujahideen against the Soviet-backed regime in Afghanistan. The mujahideen were an armed movement of various Islamist groups driven by the philosophical dictates of Political Islam.
According to most political historians, the years between 1988 and 1997 were a vital period in the history of movements advocating Political Islam.
But it was a paradoxical event because this is also the period in which modern Political Islam witnessed a kind of an upsurge that also eventually led to its own downfall.
Modern Political Islam is closely associated with three central figures: Pakistan’s Abul Ala Madudi, Egypt’s Syed Qutb and Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini.
Political Islam, also called “Islamism,” is a collection of ideologies advocating Islam as a political system. It must be noted that there is a difference between Political Islam (whose advocates are also called Islamists), and Islamic Fundamentalism.
Islamists do not shun western science and philosophy like the fundamentalists do. Instead, Islamists have been known to advocate the thorough study of western intellectual, political and cultural trends in an attempt to challenge them through their understanding and interpretation of Islam.
This has made the writings of Islamists rather fascinating. However, the discourse between Islam and Western secularism that the Islamists present eventually mutates from being an absorbing, intellectual exercise into becoming a somewhat frail ostentation, especially when the Islamists use the discourse to derive a suggestive political program.
For example, at the culmination of their otherwise well-informed intellectual discourses, Abul Ala Madudi (who in turn inspired Syed Qutb), ended up suggesting the reinstatement of the traditional caliphate system in place of Western political and economic systems like democracy and socialism.
Of course, in spite of the sound intellectuality behind their discourses, it was rather casually forgotten by the Islamist intellectuals that the history of the caliphate system that they were using to justify their argument too was riddled with the cynicism and cut-throat politics that they were decrying about the so-called western political ideologies.
When questioned and criticised in this regard, the Islamists suggest that the “true implementation of Islamic Law (the sharia),” will take care of such an eventuality. It’s just like saying that had Stalin not distorted Marxism, Communism would have been the finest politico-economic system. It’s a hurried, vague and Utopian assumption.
The truth is that the founding members of modern Political Islam were first and foremost interested in positioning Islam against Marxism and Socialism.
This was because at the time of these learned gentlemen, Socialism and Marxism were the two ideologies that were influencing Muslim nationalists the most (in the 1950s and ‘60s).
For example, Syed Qutb’s “Muslim Brotherhood” was opposed to Gamal Abul Nasser’s “Arab Socialism” in Egypt, and against “Ba’ath Socialism” that was taking root in Iraq and Syria.
The “Islamic Socialism” behind the Algerian independence movement against the French too was looked down upon.
On the other end, Maududi’s Political Islam became the basis of movements against Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s “Islamic Socialism” in Pakistan and against the left-leaning dictatorship of Sukarno in Indonesia in the 1960s.
It was ironic that thanks to the dynamics of the Cold War, Islamists found themselves in the “American camp” due to Nato and the United States’ opposition to Muslim leaders who were considered to be anti-West, “Socialist” and thus pro-Soviet Union.
As a result throughout the Cold War the Islamists’ radical anti-West angle largely remained to be nothing more than a literary and an intellectual exercise, whereas the political and active sides of the ideology were mostly reflected through movements against the left (Marxism, Socialism, Arab Socialism, Islamic Socialism, etc.).
This is at least one reason why when Political Islam, even in countries where it managed to find some implementation (such as Pakistan and Sudan in the 1980s and Afghanistan in the 1990s), only managed to generate superficial changes.
What’s more, due to the ethnic, tribal and religious pluralism of the societies in which Political Islam aspired to implement itself as a singular concept of “true Islam”, caused huge social and political fissures and fractures.
Political Islam’s consequent failure to produce the desired results that its intellectuals had promised, and also its doctrinal involvement in the armed “jihad” in Afghanistan, generated the creation of modern-day Islamic militancy.
This militancy too faced the same problems in trying to triumph with a singular concept of Islam and the sharia in the face of the social and religious complications that run across Muslim countries.
So much so that by the late 1990s, Political Islam had devolved into what we now call “Islamic fundamentalism,” and/or stripped clean off its intellectual moorings and reduced to being an ideology of pure terror and having a myopic and narrow understanding of Islam and of the West. Entities like the al Qaeda, Tehreek-e-Taliban and the many militant outfits that were active in Kashmir (Harakat ul-Mujahedeen, Jaish-e-Muhammad, Lashkar-e-Taiba), are clear examples.
So it was heartening to hear Kashmir leaders like Bhatt and Yasin distancing themselves from those aspects of the movement that have caused nothing more than bloodshed, pain and chaos, more at the cost of the Kashmiris’ rather than their ‘occupiers.’

Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com