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Is this secularism of India ?

I live in a secular country called Canada so I know that secularism is separating religion from the state. When you have a law that is supporting one religion then that is not secularism.

You are giving example of Canada where those who run the institution of the country are very much secular and justice provided to everyone irrespective of their religion, race or colour while Indian institutions are run by those who are very much incline towards one group or religion
 
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The same law has made exceptions when it comes to Islamic Marriages. Why be selective ?

But at the same time I'm not denying that India is partially secular. Probably one of the most secular countries in the region. That is why I said its a gradual process. Maybe in the future when there are more educated people India could become truly secular which would be an achievement since it has to deal with many religions.
 
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The point is being missed.

The poster is trying to incite and wants ppl to accept this & add to the flames.

No no i just watched this video on youtube and felt the need to share it with fellow Pakistani and Indians on this forum to get their response about this story which is story of many Muslims reside in india :)
 
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No no i just watched this video on youtube and felt the need to share it with fellow Pakistani and Indians on this forum to get their response about this story which is story of many Muslims reside in india :)

No its not. Now you are talking sh*t.

Go talk to someone who has family in India and have visited India.
 
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You are giving example of Canada where those who run the institution of the country are very much secular and justice provided to everyone irrespective of their religion, race or colour while Indian institutions are run by those who are very much incline towards one group or religion

Is that so then tell me why is the Prime Minster a Sikh, and the Vise President a Muslim in India? We even had a Muslim President can you say the same thing about Pakistan or let alone will people from Canada or UK accept a Muslim Prime minister in that matter.
 
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No its not. Now you are talking sh*t.

Go talk to someone who have family in India and have visited India.

What is *hit> was not he suspected because of his religion? who will be responsible for all pain he and his family went through ..will those who gave him torture in jail will get any punishment? I highly doubt
 
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Did you watched the video? I am talking about treatment of peoples with family of this innocent indian muslim?

he was treated like this because of his religion

Please dont bring the religion angle into it , There are scores of examples where people fail to get justice and there will always be exceptions for the rule .... this doesnt mean that Indias secularism is broken with few such examples ... I sympathise with him and most Indians do , but to bring in the religion angle into it is not fair at all
 
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He will get justice, that has nothing to do with secularism. Our justice system is slow, unfortunately, but its slow for everyone, Hindu, Muslim, Sikhs, every India.

Exactly, whats with these pakistanis and their extreme obsession witn India's secularism and their need to put it down? I mean a poor developing country with a historical baggage and a young nation state with unparalelled diversity has tonnes of problems. We are willing to accept them too. But why do these pakistanis who do not know the S of secularism have to link everything to India's policy of separating religion from government?

Yes we have some policies that are weird - for example some states ban cow slaughter, some states provide reservations to muslims, centre provides haj subsidy, muslims have sharia based persona law etc etc, but these are only meant to provide comfort to respective communities and not impose supremacy of one over other. A person with half a brain can see it, why can't these gentlemen obsession with secularism???

Does not injustice and crime happen in secularism? Will secularism make india's third world police / law enforcement / legal system / infra etc etc first word suddenly??? Sheeesh!
 
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What is *hit> was not he suspected because of his religion? who will be responsible for all pain he and his family went through ..will those who gave him torture in jail will get any punishment? I highly doubt

Yes its profiling.

Torture is meted out to everyone, not just to Muslims. Its wrong, but its something which societies learn to live with.

Authorities responsible for wrongly implicating him in the case will be held accountable for it. As has been in the past cases. Your doubts are based on hate for India. Educate yourself. Internet is a powerful tool.

Most of the problems in India are related to outdated policing techniques and lack of resources, not with secularism. As India progresses and prospers, these issues will become a history.
 
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No no i just watched this video on youtube and felt the need to share it with fellow Pakistani and Indians on this forum to get their response about this story which is story of many Muslims reside in india :)
I can understand but it is not abt religion here now..It is more of weak laws here in India which needs to be changed...Most of the laws are still of 1950's time..
 
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Please dont bring the religion angle into it , There are scores of examples where people fail to get justice and there will always be exceptions for the rule .... this doesnt mean that Indias secularism is broken with few such examples ... I sympathise with him and most Indians do , but to bring in the religion angle into it is not fair at all

At least i have got one Indian who sympathise with this poor fellow instead of feeling insecure becuase of this video and claim everything as perfect. Read this article

Muslims in India: IDENTITY AND SECURITY ISSUES


Our great nation— India was freed on 15th August 1947 after 190 years of fight against British tyranny, beginning from the battle of Plassey in July 1757 between Nawab Siraj-ud Daulah and East India Company. Year 1857 has been the hallmark of Indian’s ‘unity in diversity’ culture when all Indians with their religious, linguistic and cultural identities launched the ‘first united war for freedom of India’ under the last Mogul king Bahadur Shah Zafar. In the building of modern India every community and every caste has equally offered their share— thus India is for all Indians.

On 26th November 1949 India adopted the new constitution, framed by Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar, which two months later on 26th January 1950 was enforced assuring all the citizens equality, justice and security. Similarly the leaders of our freedom struggle like Mahatma Gandhi, Maulana Mahmoodul Hasan and their devote companions had dreamt of an India where men and women would be judged not on the class, creed or religions they belong to but on the content of their character and merit they personally possess. But the scene in the post- independent India portrays a dismal condition all-around-- prejudice, injustice, corruption, insecurity and lawlessness swirling all over India’s social, political, bureaucratic and law enforcing sectors endangering the very foundations of the Indian state.

No doubt, India is one of the fastest developing countries in the world. And we Indians do like the "Incredible India," slogan-- as global ad campaign by the government of Indian. On the contrary, a government of India report reads and acknowledges that Muslims in India have become "backward." "Fearing for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of Muslims as anti-national, intolerant and terrorists "has a depressing effect on their psyche," the report said, noting Muslims live in "a sense of despair and suspicion."

According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former chief justice of our country, Rajender Sachar, Muslims are now worse off than the Dalits, or those once called untouchables by the Brahmins. Some 52% of Muslim men are unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% are unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 can’t read or write. While making up nearly 14% of the total population of the country, Muslims account for 40% of India's prison population. They hold only 4.9 percent of government jobs and only 3.2 percent of the jobs in the country's security agencies, thus creating a new set of ‘untouchable Indians’ in the modern democratic republic of India.
Indian Muslims' ability to feel physically and emotionally safe; and their equal progress with other mainstream society is a test of the country's democracy and of its hopes for becoming a First World economic power. A body cannot find relief leaving one of its sides squeezing in pain. Similarly our country cannot taste the progress leaving one of her wings— Muslims lagging behind. Though India's nearly 150 million Muslims are a minority at home, they represent the second-largest Muslim population in the world, behind Indonesia (190 million) and just ahead of Pakistan (about 140 million). The numbers of Muslims in India is larger than the entire population of Arab Muslims (about 140 million).

The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action programms. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in place.
Indian Muslims have, as per my findings, four principal problems. And these problems are the real obstacles in all educational, economic and socio-political perspirations of the Muslim community at large.

The first problem is the absence of true Muslim leadership in the post-Partition period until this day. The present Muslim political leadership is either puppets of the leading parties or they have no sense of the problems Muslims community is actually facing in India. It has been an irony in the post 1947 India that majority of the Muslim politicians have been proven ineffective in regards to the community which has voted them to the power.

The second problem of Indian Muslims is lack of security. Riots, communal violence have become a sad reality of India’s life and the majority of the victims of riots in India are Muslims. The bloody massacre of Muslims in Gujarat in late February 2002 that led to the death of over 2000 Muslims is a ghastly reminder of an organized violence with tacit support by the ruling authorities. Mumbai based writer late ‘Mr. Rafiq Zakaria’ has written with anguish about communal riots in India. According to him, they reached genocidal proportions in Gujarat in 2002.

The political milieu just after the partition was such that made Muslims feel so demoralized that they could not dare ask the question as to why the doors of defence forces were barred to them after the independence. The Muslim civil servants similarly were not to be appointed on sensitive posts and extra caution had to be used for issuing even passports to them. The strength of Muslims in the police and state paramilitary forces was deliberately reduced to the extent that in some States including U.P., Delhi and West Bengal their representation is very low.

The third principal problem of Muslim community is its low income. Although the economic and social situation of Muslims is not the same throughout India, one cannot deny the fact that poverty and lack of genuine financial recourses are hampering socio- educational development of the community at every step.

Official data is, at least, enough to figure out that in the post independent India Muslim community remained downwards economically in comparison to all other majority or minority communities. And with authentic findings in hand as we have now through National Sample Survey Organization (NSSO) and the Sachar Committee Report (SCR) about the profile of second religious majority group of India, official policy can - if any government wants to - easily identify the groups most in need of state intervention, support and special care. It is typical of India’s political and social ethos that this fact of gross under representation of a significant religious minority is not allowed to become an issue. Any such discussion would be rather viewed as ‘communal’ which is taken to be anti-secular.

The forth and most painful problem of Muslim Indians is the discriminatory attitudes of the majority community towards them. In this paper it is not possible, nor is it necessary, to give an exhaustive account of how Muslims have been hauled under various draconian laws in Independent India and how intolerant and discriminatory attitudes towards them have adversely affected their rights as equal citizens in the common domain and their collective right to distinct religious, cultural and linguistic identity. What is being attempted here is to present a sampling of state of things to illustrate how institutional discrimination and extreme intolerance against Muslims have made them periodically feel insecure, marginalized and educationally deprived.

There are Muslims’ cultural and identity crises, including those fear-psycho cases among Muslims themselves and the factual ones like the recent Aftab Ansari case of an Indian Air Force (IAF) officer who wanted to grow religiously prescribed beard but has been dismissed from the job itself. From physical look, dress code, religious practices and even language like Urdu (which was wrongly taken to be Muslim exclusive) there appears a confrontation among majority and minority communities in the country. There is also the more sinister danger of actual history being changed or important chapters being omitted and Muslim culture, period of rule being depicted in official textbooks as barbaric and communal.

We learn of the most compelling stories of injustice and brutality as Muslims struggle for self-dignity and identity. A few of the images that are shown on television and the reports in the press confirm for us the plight of the Muslims in our country.

There has always been a big difference between the theory and practice in India. Indian constitution, no doubt, is one of the best in the world. It is truly secular and it was more so even before the word ‘secular’ was added to it in 1975.

Equal rights and justice for all — religious and linguistic minorities, freedom of expression and religious propagation, and punishment against any kind of discrimination are wisely enshrined in our constitution. But what practically on the screen for last few years is what it is called ‘chaos’ and collapse of justice system. The 1984 riots against Sikhs, 1992 Babri masjid demolition, 2002 Gujarat pogrom and recent Orissa and Karnataka riots against Christians are vistas which would surely find a mention in the future anthropological analyses of India along with underlined references of administrative lapses and state involvement as party in the dispute.

Plainly speaking, permanent steps should be taken that can restore the confidence of minority communities in India’s security and justice system and prevent further riots. Police must be made responsible for the riots and made them pay for their criminal inactions in the past.

Generally speaking, in all communal violence, in post independent Indian, affected people did not get justice. Muslim Indians have very few demands now-- make justice visible rather than providing relief or promise of an enquiry, provide us with a feeling of actual security and see how we ourselves can make genuine progress.


We need an India where the combined, revolutionary and reformist ideologies of Shah Waliullah, Chattrapati Shivaji, Mahatma Gandhi and Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar are practically enshrined. There can be no democracy where there are no values. It is criminal to justify politics based on corruption and injustice. Democracy is where if one person is victimized the entire society stands up. Democracy based on public conscience is real. The new structure of the new era must thus evolve to a truly democratic and equal society in India.
 
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At the same time you have to understand that many Muslims in India are uneducated therefore it is obvious they will live in poverty and become unemployed. The government should do more to educate them and I think they have some reservations for them or something like that. Even with all this so called "discrimination" Muslims in India are patriots. Most of my family lives in India and trust me they love India, one of my relatives from India visited my place a few months ago and he was very patriotic. He even said that "my grandfather made a huge mistake my migrating to Pakistan".

The more Muslims that get educated the more they will become prosperous in India.
 
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At the same time you have to understand that many Muslims in India are uneducated therefore it is obvious they will live in poverty and become unemployed. The government should do more to educate them and I think they have some reservations for them or something like that. Even with all this so called "discrimination" Muslims in India are patriots. Most of my family lives in India and trust me they love India, one of my relatives from India visited my place a few months ago and he was very patriotic. He even said that "my grandfather made a huge mistake my migrating to Pakistan".

The more Muslims that get educated the more they will become prosperous in India.

the government has given as much opportunity to muslims to educate themselves as much as it has given hindus,the problem is that the muslims are even more ignorent in teaching the girl child and have some false reservations that giving the schools in india preach hinduism,it is similar to the polio thing in which the considered the vaccination would make them impotent
 
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