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Is there any supersonic / hypersonic missile being developed by Pakistan?

Holly crist guys you need to chill out!!!! All Indian members need to chill out for heaven's sake! WTF man!!! What is the title of this thread???? read it if you guys can! This is not the Indian thread or Indian missle thread. For once let Paistani members have some serious conversation, Mods need to do something here because if thread is open for Pakistani defence then talk only about Pakistani defence, not the indian defence and missles. I believe we have Indian section, where you guys can go, or ask, other members to go there so you guys can talk about Indian missles, Does any body has manners and etiquette here, on this forum?
 
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If you guys haven't read the thread name let me retype it for you.

ITS
Is there any supersonic / hypersonic missile being developed by Pakistan?

Its not
Babur is better then Barhamos

So please stop babur v barhamos thing.
 
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Babur is better then Barhamos

can you please explain this ...exept for range ....what else is better than brahmos...you say that babur is better than brahmos and ask others to stop comparing ....by saying babur is better than brahmos you already compared it right ...this thread will again go on like MKI vs JF THREAD ...you do you have to campare apples with grapes ....brahmos is unique ...if you find any other supersonic cruise missile lets compare brahmos with that ..not with a subsonic CM....hope you got my point in the right spirit
 
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yes, it does. an airship is not flying high in the sky like AWACS, it usually hover below 50Ms( the lower the better unless it is blocked by obstacles). so if the airship was flying at 20-30Ms, it will be easier for it to detect the targets. because it is looking up and the sky do not reflects EM waves like trees.

An airship hover below 50mts?? cmon.... have you ever came across any airship or aerostat radar? airship can hover at really high altitudes.And the ceiling depends on the type of airship.Depends on blimp structure or hybrid. Hey I am not calling ur ignorance, but seriously you need a course in Radar engineering. MIT and UW offer the best known courses. I got my grad from university of waterloo. And participated in as many research programs during my uni days.



i was major in commulnication technology and have spent 7 years learning in university, and now, i am working at a communication institute that makes radioes. so although i don't know the radar terms, i know exactly how difficlut is it to cope with background noise. but i don't know what do you mean "to blind an EM wave", no ideas at all.

I appreciate your current knowledge base.But you still need to put more effort.Designing radios is a minute thing as compared to radar engineering.Currently there were as many EM wave reflectors available in the market.A small google might be able to pull my company as well.
And the background noise issue is the past(which is 40-50 years ago)Currently all radars are having high sensitivity and high gain with low ultra low noise levels.


generally speaking, there will be 2-4 routes that will be used by a CM, so you don't have to deploy them "all over their land mass". and 2-3 airships would be enough for each route to cover 80-100KMs

2-4 routes? are your kidding me? Almost all the present day CM`s are highly mobile.Let consider PAK itself for example.It is holding a more than a sqad of ur Baburs some where in the north-west.During a war time the security can be breached and the location can be figured out.Then the sqad will be dispersed all over the country with targets assigned.Then you have a TEL stationed in Karachi and other in Gwadar,...... (I meant dispersion of sqads)Then how come the path of travel of the missile in the NW ,Karachi,gwadar,...... is same?
You have an option of even transporting few launchers to Bdesh.Which increases the probability of attack and sucess.
I am not sure about the guidance and avionics part of ur babur.If any CM is installed with GPS,INS,DTM,Mid-course,...... will take the least possible path than compared to the only DTM installed one.And a DTM can be easily fooled.It needs a highly sophisticated sat system in the orbit.


i dont konw much about CMs, but i do know something about how to intercept CMs. because i konw someone who was in charged of the wireless commucation system of an anti-CM exercise.

Hmmmm.that someone is only incharge of a specific wireless commn segment which only relays and transmit the data from the command centre to the TEL and BFR.
At present there is no specific Anti-CM defence.It is just a collaborative measurement.All the advanced warning systems need to be put at work simultaneously and check with the redundant data and cords.If the whole network finds A and is at (x,y) then a counter is initiated assuming that A is a (x,y). the recent tomahawk can relay back the data(like the ground realities and others)In this case a possible mid-course guidance increases the probability to manoeuver the missile from the harms way.Again,its a sub-sonic and with less G manoeuvrability.


yes, cannonballs and laser beams.
a 35mm cannon can take 500 shot within a minute, and each shell can cover up to 75 squre meters(3-5 meter in radius) of the specific area when exploded. because you don't need to make a direct hit to destroy a CM completely, all you need is to damage it with a small cannonball fragment. and the CM will miss its target if it can not maintain in its course.

We are thinking in reality right? A the piercing effects by these canon rounds is a highly uncertain theory.It depends on the missile skin you are attacking.If the skin is un-penetratable then you will be doomed.Laser beams are seeing light now a days and still a long way to go since there were few known anti-laser materials and laser blinders.I am not just simply ignoring ur points.But I have every valid reason to support mine.And these CIWS are only considered as the last line of defence ,not the top tier.

the laser i mentioned here is not the "star war" laser cannon nor the little toy that is used in a classrom. it was designed to blind the CM's optical or infrared seekers so as to disable the Terrain Contour Matching system. besides that, GPS signals will be blocked by all means, INS will be affected by turbulences generated by the cannonball or intercept missile explosion. if all these countermeasures worked, the CM will be blind completely.

Just like an aircraft, a CM also all the ECM and ECCM,LWR,IRD,....It only increases the robustness,but at the end of day,increases its reliability.


i don't want to argue with you about the actual range of Brahmos here, there are lots of threads in this forum about Brahmos. my point is: supersonic CM will be larger, heavier and will has less operational range.

Point taken.If a person from outside the country of origin is taking about its actual range means,you need to consider it.At the end of the day,I am not an Indian.I am an outsider.

now i have answered all you questions, really tired actually. instead of questioning all my arguments, would you mind to give me some arguments to support your claim?

glad to....... As far as my knowledge data base is concerned ,as far as my expertise is considered,as far as my schematics is appreciated-I love to share a piece of my cheese cake. I give seminars on my products in almost all the developed and developing countries except eastern asia(we dont have license to sell there :( ).Again I supply electronic components to all major aircraft companies. Recently signed a venture with an Indian company.
Since I decided to have a break being tired of the routine ,am chilling out and reviving the Indian history books in all libraries.

Need more help ? throw a PM.Its been a really hard job acting like a other national. :hitwall:
 
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being true yesssssssssss

we will take out your arsenal first they will use them:D

Over confident eh :azn:

Never underestimate your enemy. For all your 4th largest military's worth you would've over-run Pakistan by now; fact is you didn't so cry me a river : abu ji america dekho na Pakistan sai nai khelta oooaaainnnnnn :angel:
 
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Over confident eh :azn:

Never underestimate your enemy. For all your 4th largest military's worth you would've over-run Pakistan by now; fact is you didn't so cry me a river : abu ji america dekho na Pakistan sai nai khelta oooaaainnnnnn :angel:

Lol......Indian leaders dont have guts.they were simply pu$$ies.
If its me incase,commanding the same 4th largest army,nukes,AF and Navy--I would have turned the world upside down.:cheers:
:sniper::sniper:
 
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Lol......Indian leaders dont have guts.they were simply pu$$ies.
If its me incase,commanding the same 4th largest army,nukes,AF and Navy--I would have turned the world upside down.:cheers:
:sniper::sniper:

:tup:

I forgot who told me this, but it says "in time of crisis, real leaders and heros will surface". Just imagine you come back to your family after pushed a few buttons here and there, kick open the door, the first thing you want to say is: honey, I just came back from wwiii, you have no idea, wow, what a thrill. :D
 
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Lol......Indian leaders dont have guts.they were simply pu$$ies.
If its me incase,commanding the same 4th largest army,nukes,AF and Navy--I would have turned the world upside down.:cheers:
:sniper::sniper:

Power and strength does not mean that you use it like anything. It is the Indian tradition to bow to the person in respect even if the person is beggar and comes to you it does not matter how much powerful your are..... Power and strength are not forever they keep on shifting but one should not forget humility even in the times of strength and weakness. And every Indian knows that we have kept a fast for one day as nation just to save some food to eat. We have not forgotten those days neither we want to forget.
 
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An airship hover below 50mts?? cmon.... have you ever came across any airship or aerostat radar? airship can hover at really high altitudes.And the ceiling depends on the type of airship.Depends on blimp structure or hybrid. Hey I am not calling ur ignorance, but seriously you need a course in Radar engineering. MIT and UW offer the best known courses. I got my grad from university of waterloo. And participated in as many research programs during my uni days.

they remain low not because they can't fly high, just because they don't need to be. and i had explan the reason clearly.

or if you were well educated in Radar engineering through MIT and UW courses, why not show me your specific solutions so that i can google it to learn some more

I appreciate your current knowledge base.But you still need to put more effort.Designing radios is a minute thing as compared to radar engineering.Currently there were as many EM wave reflectors available in the market.A small google might be able to pull my company as well.
And the background noise issue is the past(which is 40-50 years ago)Currently all radars are having high sensitivity and high gain with low ultra low noise levels.
humm, it seems you are a specialist in both Radar enginning and wireless communication.
so, i am happy to know that you and your company had overcome this problem, no more background noise issue in wireless communication. and i would be more than happy if you could give me some advise on how did you do that, or maybe your company's link or product or solutions. if they work as you had advertised and at a reasonable prise, maybe you will get a order.

2-4 routes? are your kidding me? Almost all the present day CM`s are highly mobile.Let consider PAK itself for example.It is holding a more than a sqad of ur Baburs some where in the north-west.During a war time the security can be breached and the location can be figured out.Then the sqad will be dispersed all over the country with targets assigned.Then you have a TEL stationed in Karachi and other in Gwadar,...... (I meant dispersion of sqads)Then how come the path of travel of the missile in the NW ,Karachi,gwadar,...... is same?
You have an option of even transporting few launchers to Bdesh.Which increases the probability of attack and sucess.
i was not talking about the transportation routes of CMs, but their striking routes! they have to follow some routes from the launching site to the target.
and, i was told that the "2-4 routes" is the statistics, in most cases, from Iraq and Yugoslavia.



I am not sure about the guidance and avionics part of ur babur.If any CM is installed with GPS,INS,DTM,Mid-course,...... will take the least possible path than compared to the only DTM installed one.And a DTM can be easily fooled.It needs a highly sophisticated sat system in the orbit.
er~~, sorry mate. i'm not as well educated as you did. so what DTM stands for, and why it can be easily folled? any link?


Hmmmm.that someone is only incharge of a specific wireless commn segment which only relays and transmit the data from the command centre to the TEL and BFR.
At present there is no specific Anti-CM defence.It is just a collaborative measurement.

All the advanced warning systems need to be put at work simultaneously and check with the redundant data and cords.If the whole network finds A and is at (x,y) then a counter is initiated assuming that A is a (x,y).
work simultaneously is a must if it is called a SYSTEM. and what is your point here?


the recent tomahawk can relay back the data(like the ground realities and others)In this case a possible mid-course guidance increases the probability to manoeuver the missile from the harms way.Again,its a sub-sonic and with less G manoeuvrability.
suppose the satellite channel still functional without being disturbed.
and since when G manoeuvrability is effected by speed?

We are thinking in reality right? A the piercing effects by these canon rounds is a highly uncertain theory.It depends on the missile skin you are attacking.If the skin is un-penetratable then you will be doomed.Laser beams are seeing light now a days and still a long way to go since there were few known anti-laser materials and laser blinders.I am not just simply ignoring ur points.But I have every valid reason to support mine.And these CIWS are only considered as the last line of defence ,not the top tier.
we are talking CMs here, not US A-10. and CMs do not have armor protection at all. furthermore, if a 35mm cannon can penetrate the AH-64's armor, i can not see why a CM can not be pentrate.

about the laser part, did you have some camera that could take photos under direct illumination by a searchlight (let alone laser).


Just like an aircraft, a CM also all the ECM and ECCM,LWR,IRD,....It only increases the robustness,but at the end of day,increases its reliability.
wow, great! i'm sure you have developed some nuclear battery to power them so as to make them as powerful as that of a F-18G.


glad to....... As far as my knowledge data base is concerned ,as far as my expertise is considered,as far as my schematics is appreciated-I love to share a piece of my cheese cake. I give seminars on my products in almost all the developed and developing countries except eastern asia(we dont have license to sell there :( ).Again I supply electronic components to all major aircraft companies. Recently signed a venture with an Indian company.
Since I decided to have a break being tired of the routine ,am chilling out and reviving the Indian history books in all libraries.
glad to......? to what?questioning and showing off your company's economic achievement ?

i was reading and re-reading again and again from your post but faile to get any thing of what you had claimed before, supersonic CMs are better than sunsonic CMs because it is more difficult to be intercepted.
 
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If you guys haven't read the thread name let me retype it for you.

ITS
Is there any supersonic / hypersonic missile being developed by Pakistan?

Its not
Babur is better then Barhamos

So please stop babur v barhamos thing.

How do you compare a Horse with a Camel ?
Camel can walk in Desert ; a Horse cant.

But a Horse is fast, and if its supersonic, can be rarely shot.
Babur is slower than a Mirage 2K!!!

Brahmos+MKI+Supersonic Speed=Any Target within Pakistan without any Counter after Release.
Babur-PAD-Slowness=Intercepted and Destroyed.

Babur's Strength is its weakness..
why ?
if it were to hit 800KM Target, it will have to remain for a Longer duration of Time in Air, Giving EXtra Time to be Intercepted.
And considering that its subsonic, things go really easy for the interceptors.


The major issue is about the detection of the Criuze Missiles as India already has S-300 ( Deployed Around several major cities including Mumbai , and new Delhi ) , PAD and AAD ( Under Development ), Detection rather Interception is a greater concern.

But with 6 Falcons , The best of AWACS , in place detection too cannot be difficult for a subsonic Missile.
 
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What in particular amused you so sir?

The individual you quoted alluded to Mutually Assured Destruction, MAD for short.

The only reason India and Pakistan have not waged war is because neither of them seeks annihilation.

Once again, what in particular made you laugh?

I highlighted the part of his post that I found amusing.....

The fella has no idea about Pakistan's defence posture and policy.....

Banda jazbati ho gaya.....
 
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Hello:

i am not too sure about The Supersonic version of Babur CM , or RA'Ad ALCM , but our Track record tells us that there must be something on its way!!:agree: And by the way The TAIMUR ICBM is not a myth anymore it has been reported by Mainstream Media claiming a Range of 7000kms

Click me: ICBM: Pakistan intercontinental missile underway | Pakistan Daily

Few of my senior sources have suggested that Pakistan is Working on its Missile defence system since Musharraf Period as Pakistan seeks Huge arms exports exposure, and its just a matter of time when you will see a State of the Art Missile defence system with the Strategic Command force of P.A:pakistan: so i am hopefull to See some developments.
Moreover The Shaheen II Missile has a speed of MACH :10 which is 3 times Faster than AGNI II:mod: More over the Shaheen 1 has a Speed over MACH 12+Shaheen-I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( Hypersonic speed is MACH 5) The Shaheen III is under development with range of 4500kms yet its speed remains Classified. I understand that i am comparing a CM with a IRBM but it answers many Questions about Swift response
Shaheen missile at AllExperts

Regards::pakistan::pakistan:
 
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Hello:

Moreover The Shaheen II Missile has a speed of MACH :10 which is 3 times Faster than AGNI II:mod: More over the Shaheen 1 has a Speed over MACH 12+Shaheen-I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( Hypersonic speed is MACH 5) The Shaheen III is under development with range of 4500kms yet its speed remains Classified. I understand that i am comparing a CM with a IRBM but it answers many Questions about Swift response
Shaheen missile at AllExperts

Regards::pakistan::pakistan:

Just curious - I Saw the link and also the wiki source for Agni.. It says

Agni II speed 7-8 Km per second which comes to 420 - 480 Km per minute and 25200 - 28800 km per hour..

Another place it says 5-6 Km per second for Agni.. Lowest estimate translates to 18000 km per hour, still making it greater than Saheen II..

I dunno which is faster or don't want to get into the debate. But the math and the source are contrary to your claim of Saheen having 2-3 times the speed of Agni missiles and in fact are pointing to much higher speeds for the Agni Missiles :eek:
 
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Need more help ? throw a PM.Its been a really hard job acting like a other national. :hitwall:

wait a moment.
i tumbled to realize that are you saying what i am talking about. so let me ask a simple question first: what frequency are you using?
 
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