Is the "problem" of Islamist world, a rational "problem" or?

[FaujHistorian]

Is the "problem" of Islamist world, a rational "problem" or?

--- Irrational, emotional mumbo jumbo.



Those who want to bring up "Islamist world" over and over Ad nauseam perhaps need to define how an Islamist world could exist in 2014.

Why?

All this debate is philosophically, based on those perhaps lived in 1000 AD or even before.

perhaps the proponents of Islamist world finally should make a jump of 1014 years and start living in 2014.

In 2014, religion does not define the basis of a nation state, borders do, culture does, and resources unique to those borders do.

So please abandon this religious cr@p as a basis of your analysis on the topic. It will not get you anywhere. Why because your analysis will have so complex of parameters, then you will wreck your faculties and make a fool out of yourself, trying to figure out the problem let alone the solution.


So please start focusing on the nation-state and then define its unique problems and solutions that are based on the unique resources of the state.


If you want to solve Saudi problems, then you cannot use Pakistani approach on it.

And thus your "Islam khatray main hay" will become invalid.


I hope you are literate enough scientifically to understand this.


Will you all please agree with me on this?

I can only hope you do.



Thank you.

@Slav Defence, @Luftwaffe, @WebMaster, @Jungibaaz, @jaibi, @notsuperstitious, @Azlan Haider, @ajpirzada,

 

[Jayanta]

Totally agree with you.

 

[Koovie]

Any nation which uses religion in its fundamental structures is damned to remain a backward underdeveloped state.

 

[VCheng]

Any nation which uses religion in its fundamental structures is damned to remain a backward underdeveloped state.

Incorrect. Israel is an example.

 

[Multani]

Is the "problem" of Islamist world, a rational "problem" or?

--- Irrational, emotional mumbo jumbo.



Those who want to bring up "Islamist world" over and over Ad nauseam perhaps need to define how an Islamist world could exist in 2014.

Why?

All this debate is philosophically, based on those perhaps lived in 1000 AD or even before.

perhaps the proponents of Islamist world finally should make a jump of 1014 years and start living in 2014.

In 2014, religion does not define the basis of a nation state, borders do, culture does, and resources unique to those borders do.

So please abandon this religious cr@p as a basis of your analysis on the topic. It will not get you anywhere. Why because your analysis will have so complex of parameters, then you will wreck your faculties and make a fool out of yourself, trying to figure out the problem let alone the solution.


So please start focusing on the nation-state and then define its unique problems and solutions that are based on the unique resources of the state.


If you want to solve Saudi problems, then you cannot use Pakistani approach on it.

And thus your "Islam khatray main hay" will become invalid.


I hope you are literate enough scientifically to understand this.


Will you all please agree with me on this?

I can only hope you do.



Thank you.

@Slav Defence, @Luftwaffe, @WebMaster, @Jungibaaz, @jaibi, @notsuperstitious, @Azlan Haider, @ajpirzada,

Firstly, what do you mean by "islamist" ? Do you mean bringing Islamic principles into the politics of today?

Shariat is not incompatible with the nation state of 2014. The nation state of 2014 is not just written by western ideals. These ideals themselves evolved from Islamic principles on many fronts, for example, the common law. Shariat encourages culture, Islam is for all ages, as the Qur'an is God's eternal speech.

Muslims should study and see how they can apply Islamic principles to this age in 2014.

Any nation which uses religion in its fundamental structures is damned to remain a backward underdeveloped state.

that can be disproved easily

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Incorrect. Israel is an example.

Does Israel with its suppression of the Palestinians in the unacceptable manner of blanket bombings of civilians seem like a progressive and humane state to you ?

 

[VCheng]

Does Israel with its suppression of the Palestinians in the unacceptable manner of blanket bombings of civilians seem like a progressive and humane state to you ?

Israel is neither backward, nor undeveloped, which is what the post I replied to claimed.

 

[KingMamba]

Does Israel with its suppression of the Palestinians in the unacceptable manner of blanket bombings of civilians seem like a progressive and humane state to you ?

So their foreign policy is one of oppression this even I agree and hate them for it but their internal policy has led to an accumulation of various culture bound together by religion and it works.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

So their foreign policy is one of oppression this even I agree and hate them for it but their internal policy has led to an accumulation of various culture bound together by religion and it works.

Israel is neither backward, nor undeveloped, which is what the post I replied to claimed

The advancement of a State or its development status can usually be measured by its domestic and foreign policies. If we compare Israel to South Africa for example we will see history repeating itself. Apartheid South Africa was held together by the bond of White nationalism. It however mistreated its Black inhabitants and at times made the lives of its military weaker neighbors a living hell. Apartheid South Africa was a very "developed" state which used its resources to advance many fields of science. The first human heart transplant was conducted with its government funds in Cape Town. It developed its own nuclear capability and had a military which was capable or reaching Egypt in 10 days. That was quite an "accomplishment" yeah ? But yet a pariah of the world by the 1980s and regarded as a regressive outdated society which the world was fed up of.

Fast forward to a democratic South Africa and we have a government trying to address the needs of some 50 million people whilst its apartheid predecessor only attended to the needs of some 5 million people. There isn't any scientific breakthroughs in the democratic South Africa, in fact it is in a mess with its public education system. It has one of the best human rights records in the world and it is the darling of Southern Africa, being a compassionate neighbor. Its military is basically 1/10th of what its predecessor maintained. It is truly a secular Republic where the issue of religion is irrelevant. No "accomplishments" but yet a darling of the world which regards it as a progressive society which is a model of world peace.

 

[acid rain]

i hope the OP has the balls to really see and say the reality - apart from the sugar coating - my take on an islamist world is that such a retarded world is an apartheid world, is a genocide world, is a religious and a minority intolerant world. The ideal islamist world is under ISIS, Boko haram, taliban, TTP and Al Shabaab because they are the real blue blooded islamists..and I hope the non muslim world rejects these crazy lunatics and blows them up to kingdom come.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I agree with you.

Religion should only be a personal thing, between a man and his God, society, what walks outside his street and his nation should be separate from it. And Pakistan in this sense is very backward, religion is USED and put everywhere where it doesn't need to be enforced and where it shouldn't be used.

Shariat is not incompatible with the nation state of 2014. The nation state of 2014 is not just written by western ideals. These ideals themselves evolved from Islamic principles on many fronts, for example, the common law. Shariat encourages culture, Islam is for all ages, as the Qur'an is God's eternal speech.

Muslims should study and see how they can apply Islamic principles to this age in 2014.

Muslims should, but without being so full of themselves, and should be open to hearing what they don't like to hear and what doesn't suit them. But equally Muslims should keep with the time, read about the rest of the world and how it runs. How can men who are illiterate to the world around them, gain as much from reading the holy book? Tell me, if you give a child a book to read on physics, would the illiterate child make more use of it, or the child who knows how to read, who's read other books to supplement this read? A one dimensional approach will never work, religion needs to be balanced with everything else and where it is better not to involve religion directly, it shouldn't be.

 

[acid rain]

The advancement of a State or its development status can usually be measured by its domestic and foreign policies. If we compare Israel to South Africa for example we will see history repeating itself. Apartheid South Africa was held together by the bond of White nationalism. It however mistreated its Black inhabitants and at times made the lives of its military weaker neighbors a living hell. Apartheid South Africa was a very "developed" state which used its resources to advance many fields of science. The first human heart transplant was conducted with its government funds in Cape Town. It developed its own nuclear capability and had a military which was capable or reaching Egypt in 10 days. That was quite an "accomplishment" yeah ? But yet a pariah of the world by the 1980s and regarded as a regressive outdated society which the world was fed up of.

Fast forward to a democratic South Africa and we have a government trying to address the needs of some 50 million people whilst its apartheid predecessor only attended to the needs of some 5 million people. There isn't any scientific breakthroughs in the democratic South Africa, in fact it is in a mess with its public education system. It has one of the best human rights records in the world and it is the darling of Southern Africa, being a compassionate neighbor. Its military is basically 1/10th of what its predecessor maintained. It is truly a secular Republic where the issue of religion is irrelevant. No "accomplishments" but yet a darling of the world which regards it as a progressive society which is a model of world peace.

I hope you and your family has the good fortune to live a day in Mosul or a day under the boko, or a day under the taliban - that is if you arent an islamist yourself. It would be fun to see you and your family scream to be saved by the hands of the non islamists - and if u r in Gaza - I bett you will be thanking the IDF profusely for taking you out of a hell hole.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

I hope you and your family has the good fortune to live a day in Mosul or a day under the boko, or a day under the taliban - that is if you arent an islamist yourself. It would be fun to see you and your family scream to be saved by the hands of the non islamists - and if u r in Gaza - I bett you will be thanking the IDF profusely for taking you out of a hell hole.

Thank you for your well wishes. Nope, I certainly am not an Islamist. In fact, I am not even Muslim. A resident of Gaza thanking the IDF ? You certainly must be delusional. Look at the pictures posted and confirm that comment ? I guess that baby blown to smithereens must be so grateful to the IDF yeah ? As a Hindu I do believe that a baby killed has incurred no adverse karma and is therefore destined to Swarga (Heaven) but surely it would be stretching my religion a bit to thank the IDF for bombing defenseless little babies in Gaza to death?

 

[Multani]

I agree with you.

Religion should only be a personal thing, between a man and his God, society, what walks outside his street and his nation should be separate from it. And Pakistan in this sense is very backward, religion is USED and put everywhere where it doesn't need to be enforced and where it shouldn't be used.



Muslims should, but without being so full of themselves, and should be open to hearing what they don't like to hear and what doesn't suit them. But equally Muslims should keep with the time, read about the rest of the world and how it runs. How can men who are illiterate to the world around them, gain as much from reading the holy book? Tell me, if you give a child a book to read on physics, would the illiterate child make more use of it, or the child who knows how to read, who's read other books to supplement this read? A one dimensional approach will never work, religion needs to be balanced with everything else and where it is better not to involve religion directly, it shouldn't be.

Islamic principles are immutable because they are from the Qur'an and Sunnat. Laws come from the pinciples. Some examples, the principle of improving community welfare, or the principle of justice, or the principle of fair commerce, or the principle of no compulsion in religion. Humans cannot pick and choose from them. Religion [ moral behaviour ] comes from God as a gift to humanity.

@waz brother mentioned about scraping the blasphemy law because it has done more harm than good. This is a valid reason to scrap the law based on Islamic principles. Clearly, in its current form it has led to vast amount of injustices. Western governments have laws against hate speech, or denying the holocaust.

You assume religious men are illiterate [ in worldly knowledge ].

But there is nothing stopping an 'Alim of Deen from being an MBA, MBBS, MASc, etc.

 

[Slav Defence]

Firstly, what do you mean by "islamist" ? Do you mean bringing Islamic principles into the politics of today?

Shariat is not incompatible with the nation state of 2014. The nation state of 2014 is not just written by western ideals. These ideals themselves evolved from Islamic principles on many fronts, for example, the common law. Shariat encourages culture, Islam is for all ages, as the Qur'an is God's eternal speech.

Muslims should study and see how they can apply Islamic principles to this age in 2014.



that can be disproved easily

Multani,
With due respect, we have only advanced in technology. I ask you that what is so new in twentieth century? except our paper letters and pigeons for communication are transformed into TABLETS,our paper fans are converted into electrical fan.Our khas ki tatti is transformed into air conditioner.
However,our western economical banking system is still centuries old as it depends upon riba system.This so called democratic system is centuries old and highly criticized by great philosopher Plato himself:

According to Plato's five regime:
Plato uses the "democratic man" to represent democracy. The democratic man is the son of the oligarchic man. Unlike his father, the democratic man is consumed with unnecessary desires. Plato describes necessary desires as desires that we have out of instinct or desires that we have in order to survive. Unnecessary desires are desires we can teach ourselves to resist such as the desire for riches. The democratic man takes great interest in all the things he can buy with his money. He does whatever he wants whenever he wants to do it. His life has no order or priority.
According to Plato,democracy is finally degenerated into tyranny.

I see no advancement in society nor I find better system in replacement.I see that parents are still burying their baby girls alive.I am still seeing modern day urban man in raping and involved in corruption.
I see countries like Israel(not accepted by Pakistan) involved in worse violations of human laws ever.I am unable to differentiate between radicalized Israel and TTP which are extremists yet they claim to be modern and better then Arabs.
I am still seeing people in state of bewilderment, bamboozlement and frustration.
I see that today's modern man is well equipped with information but is not enriched with human moral -worse than animal and yet he blames religion without realizing that he lacks intelligence like Lucifer to understand the actual message of God.Today's modern man-what a joke,still lives in caves and manipulates /fails to understand religion and lacks intelligence to use it as a tool for success.
So,it is better that we don't talk about modernism because there is nothing modern in twentieth century. Infact, we must review our definition about modernism first,and instead if whining about old and new,we must analyze best system to be implemented so that we could live with peace and prosperity.

Regards