Is the legacy of Quaid-e-Azam akin to that of Atattürk or that of Salahaddin

[k s ahmed]

so , we actually wanted was not a seperate state but divided govt ? so that in 10 years they can be separated?
why this is not taught cleary?
so it means that division was a great blunder ( yeet again by british pigs ) ?
i know borders were drawn unfairly..bu that side i didnt know

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And just to recap over Sir Syed. When he was young man in 1840s thinking up his ideas Sind was not even part of British Raj. It was a independent kingdom ruled by Mirs of Talpur.

Had Sir Charles Napier not decided to invade Sind in 1843 all you guys Sir Syed lovers would have been sat in India. So perhaps you need to thank Charles Napier for bringing Sind under the rule of the Raj thus making 1947 possible.

 

[Sal12]

I have a dream since I was a child that man can travel with speed of light and then time becomes irrelevant to him. Let's say I was the first person who saw this dream. Tomorrow another person or an organisation invent a machine or find a way somehow to travel with speed of light after my death or even in my life and mankind is able to travel to galaxies. Can I call this as my achievement since I was the first who saw this dream.

I am off. Bye..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

So thank this basket.

 

[Fawad alam]

You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Pakistan should be made on pure foundations of social justice and Islamic Socialism.. Not other isms!

 

[Kabira]

Jinnah didnt came with 2 nation theory. This hate filled theory could only have came from RSS Sarvarkar in 1920. Jinnah just run with it for Pakistan.

If Jinnah actually believed in two nation theory then why he wanted united punjab/bengal. Why even discuss cabinet mission agenda? Bengali doesnt become different nation after becoming muslim.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

IMHO, Quaid's legacy is bigger than these two leaders. He was successful in creating an Islamic state from the clutches of Hindu and British dominance. what is Indus nationalism?

Indus Nationalism is the notion that those on the Far north western part of the Indian subcontinent and on the rims beyond it, form a seperate distinct race completely different from the rest of the subcontinent. This race has therefore a perfect and legitimate claim to separate nationhood. (I half-agree and half-disagree with this claim though)


This was the Rahmat Plan for Pakistan------------------>much bigger but still distinct from other Islamic polities on the subcontinent, which would act as an interconnected web of economic and military alliance, to check the Non-Muslims

Indian subcontinent was to be named Pakasia

 

[SIPRA]

An extraordinary thread, most probably initiated, for the sole purpose of dividing and confusing, already thoroughly divided and confused lot of Pakistanis, on the issue of establishment of Pakistan.

"Mogambo Khush Hua"

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

And just to recap over Sir Syed. When he was young man in 1840s thinking up his ideas Sind was not even part of British Raj. It was a independent kingdom ruled by Mirs of Talpur.

Had Sir Charles Napier not decided to invade Sind in 1843 all you guys Sir Syed lovers would have been sat in India. So perhaps you need to thank Charles Napier for bringing Sind under the rule of the Raj thus making 1947 possible.

This is the chronology of events regarding Sindh

 

[Mutakalim]

Indus Nationalism is the notion that those on the Far north western part of the Indian subcontinent and on the rims beyond it, form a seperate distinct race completely different from the rest of the subcontinent. This race has therefore a perfect and legitimate claim to separate nationhood. (I half-agree and half-disagree with this claim though)

Firstly, can this notion be proved with solid reasoning or any empirical data? I suppose not. Who are proponents of this claim? Besides few racist morons, no one else. Can you or any other supporter of this claim tell me that how Jutts of Punjab and Wazirs of Frontier are related to each other? How Muhajirs of Karachi and Murris of Balochistan are related to each other? How Sindhis and Kashmiris of Punjab are related to each other? And let's suppose they are related, then why Muhajirs are killing Pathans in Karachi? If they are from the same stock then why they dont recognize it themselves? Why their ethnic leaders hate each other? Tell me a name of any ethnic leader who recognize this so called fact. Does ANP, MQM, PTM and BLA recognize this? No, they dont. All of them hate each other and all of them hate Punjabis. For these reasons, the claim of nationalism based on ethnic distinctiveness is absurd and illogical. I strongly believe that these notions are propagated to break Pakistan on ethnic lines. You should feel happy that some Pakistanis are also living in this lala land. But, believe me they are few and they will not be successful. We will continue to fight Hindu hegemonic designs at all fronts, whatever the cost may be.

To address the issue of Chaudry Rehmat Ali and what was his motives, I am creating another thread.

 

[Kabira]

Indus Nationalism is the notion that those on the Far north western part of the Indian subcontinent and on the rims beyond it, form a seperate distinct race completely different from the rest of the subcontinent. This race has therefore a perfect and legitimate claim to separate nationhood. (I half-agree and half-disagree with this claim though)

Religion is also legitimate reason and not just ethnicity. Kashmiri pandit and gangu brahmin may have little in common otherwise but both have common religion to bound them vs Kashmiri muslims. Hence why you see 99% of Kashmiri pandits are hindutvas.

In society where religion played little role then ethnicity will take over for simple fact that everyone will identify with their area only like in Europe. Which is why whole point of hindutvas is to unite hindus vs muslims. Otherwise their politics will end once they can no longer sell that narrative.

But things get complicated in south asia because of jatis, castes, tribes etc as unlike Europe no area in south asia is homogeneous racially apart from maybe Bangladesh.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Firstly, can this notion be proved with solid reasoning or any empirical data? I suppose not. Who are proponents of this claim? Besides few racist morons, no one else. Can you or any other supporter of this claim tell me that how Jutts of Punjab and Wazirs of Frontier are related to each other? How Muhajirs of Karachi and Murris of Balochistan are related to each other? How Sindhis and Kashmiris of Punjab are related to each other? And let's suppose they are related, then why Muhajirs are killing Pathans in Karachi? If they are from the same stock then why they dont recognize it themselves? Why their ethnic leaders hate each other? Tell me a name of any ethnic leader who recognize this so called fact. Does ANP, MQM, PTM and BLA recognize this? No, they dont. All of them hate each other and all of them hate Punjabis. For these reasons, the claim of nationalism based on ethnic distinctiveness is absurd and illogical. I strongly believe that these notions are propagated to break Pakistan on ethnic lines. You should feel happy that some Pakistanis are also living in this lala land. But, believe me they are few and they will not be successful. We will continue to fight Hindu hegemonic designs at all fronts, whatever the cost may be.

To adders the issue of Chaudry Rehmat Ali and what was his motives, I am creating another thread.

@Indus Pakistan @Mangus Ortus Novem @Talwar e Pakistan

@PakSword
This is a question that can be resolved by better minds than me..I am of the opinion that Sindh started forming a seperate Identity from rest of the subcontinent with the formation of the Thar desert...but it is hard to differentiate identity in the plains extending from Haryana to Punjab

Religion is also legitimate reason and not just ethnicity. Kashmiri pandit and gangu brahmin may have little in common otherwise but both have common religion to bound them vs Kashmiri muslims. Hence why you see 99% of Kashmiri pandits are hindutvas.

Without the external shock created by Islam, Hinduism never had the cohesive force to bind the subcontinent to a single modern nation state...Without Islam, Indian subcontient would have been subdivided into at least a dozen nation states...with extreme wars fought by the landlocked polities of the North to gain access to the sea

 

[sohail.ishaque]

jinnah gave up,. iqbal didnt.. too bad he passed away much earlier. i dont actualy understand what jinnah did.. just presented and signed docs in legal battles after all platform was laid down?

Well, you should send ur sister, daughter, mother or wife to India and you'll find out what Jinnah actually did. Even you yourself can go there and just let the hindus around you know that you are a muslim, still then you'll find out what he actually did. Or just go with a beard and walk around, and you'll soon find someone grabbing you by your beard and then you'll realize what Mr Jinnah actually did.

 

[SIPRA]

Firstly, can this notion be proved with solid reasoning or any empirical data? I suppose not. Who are proponents of this claim? Besides few racist morons, no one else. Can you or any other supporter of this claim tell me that how Jutts of Punjab and Wazirs of Frontier are related to each other? How Muhajirs of Karachi and Murris of Balochistan are related to each other? How Sindhis and Kashmiris of Punjab are related to each other? And let's suppose they are related, then why Muhajirs are killing Pathans in Karachi? If they are from the same stock then why they dont recognize it themselves? Why their ethnic leaders hate each other? Tell me a name of any ethnic leader who recognize this so called fact. Does ANP, MQM, PTM and BLA recognize this? No, they dont. All of them hate each other and all of them hate Punjabis. For these reasons, the claim of nationalism based on ethnic distinctiveness is absurd and illogical. I strongly believe that these notions are propagated to break Pakistan on ethnic lines. You should feel happy that some Pakistanis are also living in this lala land. But, believe me they are few and they will not be successful. We will continue to fight Hindu hegemonic designs at all fronts, whatever the cost may be.

To address the issue of Chaudry Rehmat Ali and what was his motives, I am creating another thread.

See my Post # 69. By participating in and expanding such kind of discussions, pertaining to the issue of establishment of Pakistan, we inadvertently enter into a trap, laid by the Gangus. Why there is hardly any thread discussing the justification of existence of India, and there are virtually, in hundreds, on PDF, which directly or indirectly, bring this issue of genesis of Pakistan, to deliberate upon? This question needs to be pondered upon by all patriotic Pakistani citizens. Then many posters, ranging from the most stupid ones to the most intellectual ones, start splitting of hairs, often distorting the history, to suit their respective narratives, in this respect.