Is the JF-17 Really a Tough Sell for China and Pakistan?

[N/A]

jf-17 is built for the paf

 

[DJ Crudept]

Sri lanka, Libya, Afghanistan , N Korea (?), and many more don't loose your hope guys

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

Give it time and JF-17 will gain export market; however, it is better for Pakistan to start working on better engine than the RD-93, which is made by Russia, for its fighter aircraft.

 

[PakEye]

Sri lanka, Libya, Afghanistan , N Korea (?), and many more don't loose your hope guys

yes and sanctions free option.

 

[Viking 63]

This aircraft is too over hyped !! its slow and sluggish even the angle of attack are restricted due to it can only withstand
8Gs of pull.
But then again if you are playing a political poker, the only thing you can do is to keep betting !!

 

[Su-11]

1# China
2# Myanmar
3# Azerbaijan
4# Zimbabwe
5# Turkey
6# Serbia
7# Egypt
8# Saudi Arabia
9# Sri Lanka
10# Nigeria

Did I miss anyone? Now that's a long list of failures. These deals were either "in the final stages of the deal" or were "genuinely interested" or fight trials took place in the countries and lost the tender, and some in the list hilariously claimed that the deal was signed.

Now an even longer list of countries who were "interested" in the JF-17.

Indonesia
Bangladesh
Syria
Bolivia
Ethiopia
Morocco
Venezuela
Iran
Lebanon
Albania
Malaysia
North Korea
Sudan
Congo
#Argentina
Tanzania
Thailand
Eritrea

So much for selling like "hot cakes" which was predicted in 2003 by the PAF airchief Saadat(IIRC).

You dont know how KEEN we are for that

Keen?? People are dying for a limited air war here. Every one dreams of MiGs and Sukhois shooting down Junk fighters.

 

[MastanKhan]

This aircraft is too over hyped !! its slow and sluggish even the angle of attack are restricted due to it can only withstand
8Gs of pull.
But then again if you are playing a political poker, the only thing you can do is to keep betting !!

Pretty much all the planes are in the 8 G range----nobody goes over 8 G's---the only time that you might do it is if you are doing stunt flying at a much much slower speeds----.

Pappy---when you are doing 500---600 knots---you just cannot pull 8 + G's like that----. You pull high G's during dog fights that are between 300 to 400 knots---and with the current missiles----you need better jammers than higher G's.

 

[Su-11]

yes we know, but only deep inside you heart...short of sending "Attack US" greeting card, we have done everything in our power.

Yea, i know how you feel. People are are very stupid to pick up on the subtle hints, and the fagggots who get elected are plain cowards to do the right thing.

Pretty much all the planes are in the 8 G range----nobody goes over 8 G's---the only time that you might do it is if you are doing stunt flying at a much much slower speeds----.

Pappy---when you are doing 500---600 knots---you just cannot pull 8 + G's like that----. You pull high G's during dog fights that are between 300 to 400 knots---and with the current missiles----you need better jammers than higher G's.

Untrue, High Gs are constantly reached when fights just start with the planes entering the knife fight. A good pilot can hold 9 to 10 Gs for just a couple of seconds, and it is this couple of seconds which wins him the crucial few degrees of turn higher than his opponent which wins him the fight. Because in the age of High G and High off bore sight missiles, closing the initial 180 degree gap between the 2 planes and launching the missiles means much more than pulling a few Gs and keeping in Air Speed to fully get behind the opponent.

Even MiG-21Bis is rated 8.5Gs, and that final version came out in the 60's. You might think a mere 0.5 units more is nothing but that's not the case. The amount of structural strength required for every G increase, is NOT A LINEAR CURVE. Say for instance the airframe is rated 1G and its stress/tensile strength is say a 100 units. To make the Airframe 2G capable, the tensile strength is not 200 units but will be more than 300 units. The tensile strength required to accommodate every G increase, increases astronomically so to speak.

JF-17 is a compromise plane, plain and simple. It was made keeping in mind pakistans limited financial resources. Just because someone wishes for the plane to be like he wants it to be, doesn't make it against what it actually is.

 

[Windjammer]

1# China
2# Myanmar
3# Azerbaijan
4# Zimbabwe
5# Turkey
6# Serbia
7# Egypt
8# Saudi Arabia
9# Sri Lanka
10# Nigeria

Did I miss anyone? Now that's a long list of failures. These deals were either "in the final stages of the deal" or were "genuinely interested" or fight trials took place in the countries and lost the tender, and some in the list hilariously claimed that the deal was signed.

Now an even longer list of countries who were "interested" in the JF-17.

Indonesia
Bangladesh
Syria
Bolivia
Ethiopia
Morocco
Venezuela
Iran
Lebanon
Albania
Malaysia
North Korea
Sudan
Congo
#Argentina
Tanzania
Thailand
Eritrea

So much for selling like "hot cakes" which was predicted in 2003 by the PAF airchief Saadat(IIRC).
.

 

[MastanKhan]

Senor,

The JF 17 can take 11G's---it just has a G limiter just like every other fighter plane----.

 

[Su-11]

11Gs? I'd like some sources please. That its been cleared for 11Gs on Operational Mission, and not some ground test.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

11Gs? I'd like some sources please. That its been cleared for 11Gs on Operational Mission, and not some ground test.

You will get some FICTIONAL story ; he will narrate something which never happened

 

[MastanKhan]

11Gs? I'd like some sources please. That its been cleared for 11Gs on Operational Mission, and not some ground test.

Kid,

I have never stated that it is cleared for missions at 11 G's----there is no fighter aircraft in the world cleared for that kind of G's. Cleared for and able to are two different things----.

Your stupidity has no limitations-----every current new fighter aircraft manufactured in the last 30 years can DO 11 G's---which does not mean that the pilot can take that number---if the pilot cannot take the 11 G's---then what is the purpose of 11G's----no reason---.

You own LCA would tae 11 G---but will never be cleared for that---it will also have G limiter on it.

 

[Viper0011.]

11Gs? I'd like some sources please. That its been cleared for 11Gs on Operational Mission, and not some ground test.

You realize majority of the 4th gen platforms have the ability to go 11G's? USAF F-16 pilots routinely test fly and go around 9.5 - 10 's (for fun, not instructed to do so for any missions). The G limit is really due to the limitations of the human body. Not because the airframe can't take 10 or 11 g's.

Did you know that a 747 can go super sonic? and can also do limited rolls sub sonic? BUT....after a few attempts, good luck flying it as you'd have compromised the structural integrity of the plane. Similarly, in fighter jets (4th gen or above), you'd put pilot's brain /body integrity at risk if you tried 11G's. But the aircraft itself is capable of doing it.

In 1985, an F-15 was tested to go beyond 30 G's, the airframe was so bent and the wing skin was wrinkled up badly (that's all metal and composites). So ability is one thing, flying at safe, optimal performance is a whole different issue, and that's what's instructed in flight schools.

Plus, every mission and fuel / weapons' configuration has its own G recommended limits so pilots have to see their manuals pre-flight to understand mission configuration for optimal and safe flight maneuvers.

 

[SQ8]

You realize majority of the 4th gen platforms have the ability to go 11G's? USAF F-16 pilots routinely test fly and go around 9.5 - 10 's (for fun, not instructed to do so for any missions). The G limit is really due to the limitations of the human body. Not because the airframe can't take 10 or 11 g's.

Did you know that a 747 can go super sonic? and can also do limited rolls sub sonic? BUT....after a few attempts, good luck flying it as you'd have compromised the structural integrity of the plane. Similarly, in fighter jets (4th gen or above), you'd put pilot's brain /body integrity at risk if you tried 11G's. But the aircraft itself is capable of doing it.

In 1985, an F-15 was tested to go beyond 30 G's, the airframe was so bent and the wing skin was wrinkled up badly (that's all metal and composites). So ability is one thing, flying at safe, optimal performance is a whole different issue, and that's what's instructed in flight schools.

Plus, every mission and fuel / weapons' configuration has its own G recommended limits so pilots have to see their manuals pre-flight to understand mission configuration for optimal and safe flight maneuvers.

HE probably knows, but due to his inbuilt jingoism will NEVER acknowledge that. No bother, will be removed from the thread pretty soon.