Is the Combination of F16 Block C/D and JF17 Block 3 , sufficient ?

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What is the Immediate Dangers to Air Space Protection with

• Existance of Almost 250 Sukhoi-30 Crafts
• And purchase of 36 Rafale
• 64 Upgraded Mig29

Is the Combination of F16 Block C/D and JF17 Block 3 , sufficient ?

It is hard to imagine where would our Airforce's status would be had we not inducted the JF17 Thunders.

Now on verge of Block III arrival 2019/2020 , we are witnessing a new Era in development of Pakistan Air force.

JF-17 now potentially armed with an additional 2 Missile Launching hard points , 2 Long range Air to Air Missiles and new fresh Radar and Engine will certainly enhance the capabilities of National Defense.

Where will the Block III rank , vs Rafale considering the Thunder is getting a improved Radar , Improved Engine for better speed and agility and more closer Block C/D level flight acrobatics and maneuvering


Do the Radar/ Avionics upgrade would help bridge the game between JF17 I/II vs Rafale crafts?



From size prespective , Rafael are almost same size as the JF17 Thunders but they do enjoy a better Publicity about their Weapon's package and Duel Engine configuration

India's strategy has been to combine a Large Fighter , and a light Agile platform Rafael to create a Air force which has best elements from Western/Russian technology

The problem at hand can be well understood with following image

The hindrance in sustained growth in F16 C/D numbers have meant a bit more pressure is put forth on the JF17 platform , to coming thru with flying colors by the time JF17 Block III is released

Had 18-25 F16 C/D arrived on schedule we could have argued that both Primary Platforms have continued to evolve

Many people don't consider the F-7PG / Mirages to be much more then
hindrance in path of Sukhoi-30/Rafale threats. While both Mirage/F7 carry live weapons and Air to Air Missile the effectiveness of these older platform in a long duration battle is questionable

 

[khanasifm]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[khanasifm]

Per 192 wing

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What options we have

a) Either we increase production of JF17 Block III so more mirage/F7-PG can be retired
b) Pick up some F16 from friendly nation or some European Nation
c) Pick up Sukhoi-35 from Russia
d) Purchase J10B models 40 crafts from China


At a high level it feels like we have not done well with retirement of F7/Mirages

The F7 are mainly support crafts , near sight dog fights and Mirages with some options are clearly not at same level

 

[Ultima Thule]

What options we have

a) Either we increase production of JF17 Block III so more mirage/F7-PG can be retired
b) Pick up some F16 from friendly nation or some European Nation
c) Pick up Sukhoi-35 from Russia
d) Purchase J10B models 40 crafts from China

A) not if we will open another production line for JF-17 Blk-3 at Pakistan
B)least possibility, because its need US state department approval
C) too early to assume that Russia sell Su-35 to pakistan and they have also Indian lobby pressure and last one we have no $$$$$$ to buy
D) best probable option but instead of B we should buy C

@AZADPAKISTAN2009

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Sukhois and mig 29s are countered by 250+ JF-17 and 100 F-16 class.

when the indians Get more aircraft like 36 Rafale and possible indegenous Fifth Gen Aircraft, by that time we will be in shape to domestically Make F-31 with chinese help inside pakistan. and possibly we could get 2 squads of Su-35 as High Speed deep penetrators. but then again india would have S-400 and Su-35 won't make any sense for deep strikes so Pakistan Air Force might go for Sharp Sword Stealth UAV that can deliver Deep strikes while remaining hidden From the radars of S-400

i dont think that for next 4 years pakistan is in position to purchase any more fighter aircraft besides F-16 , JF-17 and F-31. however Five years from now things and battlefield situation could be different also the economy so in 5 years time they might look at tit. for now they will be focusing on the Navy and area denial tactics in the Arabian sea.

 

[Signalian]

PAF needs EFT's and SU-34's

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well problem at hand is slow JF17 Induction / and Lack of Arrival of F16 as planned which has slowed down retirement of old planes

 

[Ultima Thule]

Well problem at hand is slow JF17 Induction / and Lack of Arrival of F16 as planned which has slowed down retirement of old planes

We directly going towards 5th gen jet skip all 4th 4.5 gen jets Project AZM @AZADPAKISTAN2009

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Project Azm is a long term 2030-2032 type project , however we still should be able to fix the problem with Older generation crafts like Mirage/F7PG , retirement with a temporary 30-36 unit purchase

The Much Improved J10B could be a great consideration to even up Pakistan Airforce
If we get 40 J10B , we will help balance the Airforce needs

Getting 40-60 J10B would be ideal scenario to get a New Generation Delta Wing craft in Pakistani Airforce

Now the Fighter Jet is able to Thrust Vector

Here is what we can achive with J10B , re-evaluation

a) Much Improved Engine
b) Thrust Vectoring Engine, new technical challenges for Pakistani Pilots to Master
c) Better, same as JF17/F16 but can carry more options
d) Bubble Canopy
e) Additional Missiles Carrying capabilities


The J10 DRAGON> F7-PG
J10 DRAGON > Mirage

 

[Fawadqasim1]

The simple answer is no we need su 35

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Sukhois and mig 29s are countered by 250+ JF-17 and 100 F-16 class.

when the indians Get more aircraft like 36 Rafale and possible indegenous Fifth Gen Aircraft, by that time we will be in shape to domestically Make F-31 with chinese help inside pakistan. and possibly we could get 2 squads of Su-35 as High Speed deep penetrators. but then again india would have S-400 and Su-35 won't make any sense for deep strikes so Pakistan Air Force might go for Sharp Sword Stealth UAV that can deliver Deep strikes while remaining hidden From the radars of S-400

i dont think that for next 4 years pakistan is in position to purchase any more fighter aircraft besides F-16 , JF-17 and F-31. however Five years from now things and battlefield situation could be different also the economy so in 5 years time they might look at tit. for now they will be focusing on the Navy and area denial tactics in the Arabian sea.

Have seen a quite a lot of respected Pakistani members telling that PAF hasnt quite got an answer to the Su30 MKI in itself first. PAF wasnt able to handle the old non upgraded Mig 29 in Kargil war. So the new UPG variant?
PAF also havent converted the entire class of F16 into C/D variant as well. That's another issue.

UAVs cannot carry heavy munitions, yet. Its payloads cannot even destroy an entire airbase.
Strategy should be J31.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The J10A which we were offered in 2005 and what J10B has become now in 2018 is a vastly mature , and ready platform

a) Better then Mirage 100%
b) Better then F-8 100%
c) More Maneuverability then before , Thust Vector Engine makes it better vs F16
d) Much more mature weapon's package and Engine (Evolving weapon's package)
e) IRST


Trained pilots flying J10B models vs F7 or Mirage would be ideal scenrio for next 10 years at least

 

[Ultima Thule]

Engine

TVC engine is maintenance prone, look at MKI engine @AZADPAKISTAN2009

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

That is for Ground Crew to figure out , and their Training the better their training and Education is the better the results are.

We can't be flying F7 and Mirages

Time to move to Modern platforms

a) JF17 (1, 2 , 3) are such platform
b) J10B is similarly another wonderful platform with Enhanced Engine


Don't see harm in inducting 40 planes for 2 squadron for J10B as a gap filling induction with main role being centered around 10 years till Project Azam shows up on Horizon