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Is secularisation of Pakistan possible?

it is indeed harmful when this headscarf is practised in place of education

Can't argue with that; it's not like what ever I say ever going to chance your views.
Let's just agree to disagree, and I disagree Secularity should be going around and banning religious clothings of no apparent harm (they pose no danger).
 
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Can't argue with that; it's not like what ever I say ever going to chance your views.
Let's just agree to disagree, and I disagree Secularity should be going around and banning religious clothings of no apparent harm (they pose no danger).
its up to you my friend. but the majority feel that its not good and so ban, Turkey baned it, Being a muslim majority nation yet modernised and have the tendency to evolve and adapt to the fast changing world.
 
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Hello secularism a very broad topic and there are many factors which may lead to it but since the to nation theory is also being discussed here so i first would comment on it.

First The Two Nation theory was not given by a mullah or a religious leader it was given by a normal man who was rather concerned with the state of Muslims than Islam and the reason was the state of common Muslims was miserable after the fall of Mughals and subsequent war of 1857 Muslims in general become very poor financially uneducated and had very less political power they left the British education as mullahs gave fatwas that British education was Haram.On the other hand the Hindus embraced education took British bureaucracy jobs had political power and British were happy with them too.

But Muslims were disillusioned that they will seize power again without being the part of system.It was therefore that Sir Syed realized that if someday the subcontinent became Independent there would be no one to protect the rights of Muslims and being a minority it was no way they could do so in united India.

Therefore he Advocated "British education" along with the Two Nation theory.The two nation theory was one of his ideas and not all of his ideas hence with his efforts despite of being labeled as a Kafir(Infidel) by mullahs of that time he was very successful and that of course was his biggest achievement and many of the people who latter joined AIML were educated in his Aligarh College.The two nation theory was one of the reason of AIML's popularity and subsequent success but was NOT the sole cause of Creation of Pakistan.

Pakistan was made by Jinnah who once said" I am an Indian first and Indian last" and was once biggest advocate of Hindu Muslim unity.But different reasons and the attitude of Nehru and Congress changed the course of things and views of Jinnah.

There were many events which led to this some of these were the Shud-Dhi movement by Aria Samaj (the campaign to forcibly convert Muslims to Hindus), Gandhi's statement urging Muslims to leave India and to migrate to Afghanistan during the Khilafat movement,Nehru Report,The use and advocacy of Hindi and instead of Urdu Jinnah's protest and Gandhi's reply"Urdu is a Quranic Language",Congress's treatment of Muslims when it came to power a nearly decade before Independence etc there are many other event too which led to separation.
So its not only the two Nation Theory that created Pakistan.

On topic Pakistan can be secular if present state of affairs continues the growing sectarianism which is effecting people no one is safe from it people are growing impatient over this and the people advocating secularism(actually rather questioning the absolute authority of religious mullahs) they have become more vocal and their numbers have grown significantly and so has their following.

And Pakistan has always been a society of diverse view actually its founders were all secular people who were opposed by the very mullahs who sided with Congress be it the Mujlis-e-Ahrar or Moududi Jamiat or Ulema-e-Hind all opposed Pakistan and even called Jinnah Infidel,and Pakistan, "NaPakistan" even the one Ahrar leader commented on the fall of Dhaka "Thank God we were not involved in the sin of making Pakistan" so the people who know these facts wonder how on earth these kind of mullahs decide that how this country and its constitution and dealing with the citizens should be. So its quite possible in future that Pakistan would may become a secular state.
 
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i am not a Mulsim to know the difference between Ramzan and Eid, you could have shared me the details rather then telling me to stop embarrasing myself. ignorance is not embarrasment, its an oppertunity to learn some thing that i don't know.
When you're arguing someone else's religion, you're expected to know the religion.
 
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@Mirage2000

There were many events which led to this some of these were the Shud-Dhi movement by Aria Samaj (the campaign to forcibly convert Muslims to Hindus), Gandhi's statement urging Muslims to leave India and to migrate to Afghanistan during the Khilafat movement,Nehru Report,The use and advocacy of Hindi and instead of Urdu Jinnah's protest and Gandhi's reply"Urdu is a Quranic Language",Congress's treatment of Muslims when it came to power a nearly decade before Independence etc there are many other event too which led to separation.

If its the Hindus and the congress leaders were responsible for fomenting insecurity in the minds of Muslims leading to the creation of pakistan where muslims are in overwhelming majority with little fear or influence of hindus, still why pakistanis choose to be an islamic repubic where minorities are little more than second class citizen. And over the years laws such as declaring Ahmadi as non-muslim,laws blasphemy ,Hudud law were enacted in rigid consideration of Sharia making it impossible for the the minorities to live a normalife.

On the other hand,don't forget that the same bigoted hindu leaders of congress who you say forced Jinhah to seek pakistan , made India a secular republic and tried hard to accommodate Muslim interest at every step with full political support of gereral populus of India Majority of who are Hindus.
 
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Hello secularism a very broad topic and there are many factors which may lead to it but since the to nation theory is also being discussed here so i first would comment on it.

First The Two Nation theory was not given by a mullah or a religious leader it was given by a normal man who was rather concerned with the state of Muslims than Islam and the reason was the state of common Muslims was miserable after the fall of Mughals and subsequent war of 1857 Muslims in general become very poor financially uneducated and had very less political power they left the British education as mullahs gave fatwas that British education was Haram.On the other hand the Hindus embraced education took British bureaucracy jobs had political power and British were happy with them too.

But Muslims were disillusioned that they will seize power again without being the part of system.It was therefore that Sir Syed realized that if someday the subcontinent became Independent there would be no one to protect the rights of Muslims and being a minority it was no way they could do so in united India.

Therefore he Advocated "British education" along with the Two Nation theory.The two nation theory was one of his ideas and not all of his ideas hence with his efforts despite of being labeled as a Kafir(Infidel) by mullahs of that time he was very successful and that of course was his biggest achievement and many of the people who latter joined AIML were educated in his Aligarh College.The two nation theory was one of the reason of AIML's popularity and subsequent success but was NOT the sole cause of Creation of Pakistan.

Pakistan was made by Jinnah who once said" I am an Indian first and Indian last" and was once biggest advocate of Hindu Muslim unity.But different reasons and the attitude of Nehru and Congress changed the course of things and views of Jinnah.

There were many events which led to this some of these were the Shud-Dhi movement by Aria Samaj (the campaign to forcibly convert Muslims to Hindus), Gandhi's statement urging Muslims to leave India and to migrate to Afghanistan during the Khilafat movement,Nehru Report,The use and advocacy of Hindi and instead of Urdu Jinnah's protest and Gandhi's reply"Urdu is a Quranic Language",Congress's treatment of Muslims when it came to power a nearly decade before Independence etc there are many other event too which led to separation.
So its not only the two Nation Theory that created Pakistan.

On topic Pakistan can be secular if present state of affairs continues the growing sectarianism which is effecting people no one is safe from it people are growing impatient over this and the people advocating secularism(actually rather questioning the absolute authority of religious mullahs) they have become more vocal and their numbers have grown significantly and so has their following.

And Pakistan has always been a society of diverse view actually its founders were all secular people who were opposed by the very mullahs who sided with Congress be it the Mujlis-e-Ahrar or Moududi Jamiat or Ulema-e-Hind all opposed Pakistan and even called Jinnah Infidel,and Pakistan, "NaPakistan" even the one Ahrar leader commented on the fall of Dhaka "Thank God we were not involved in the sin of making Pakistan" so the people who know these facts wonder how on earth these kind of mullahs decide that how this country and its constitution and dealing with the citizens should be. So its quite possible in future that Pakistan would may become a secular state.
This will pave the way to disintegrate Pakistan into the different states before 1947.....so bye bye Pakistan if it happens.....:smokin:
 
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Bring Taliban type authority with super super strong religious gov, believe me, pakistanis will in no time run away and accept secularism, that is at least what happend to me, once upon a time i was very very hostile to secularist type of governments.
 
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When you're arguing someone else's religion, you're expected to know the religion.
so you mean to say that all the fu#k ups from other side of the INDIAN borders knew every thing about HINDUISM when they post about HINDUISM. what ever i posted about the soudhi law banning people from eating food in public during your holy month was correct. the only mistake i did was confuse eid with ramzan. and you pathetically take this mistake to be so serious.
fools like you and the fools who thank your posts that are foolish are the ones who need to be embarrassed of of their intolerance towards other religion.
 
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Well it has been said this was the dream of Jinnah however the current state of affairs loooks to be getting worse and more radical not better and more secular.


It is a tragedy what has happend to Pakistan because of these ignorant clerics but I fear they have created a monster no one can noe control.
 
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it is indeed harmful when this headscarf is practised in place of education.
For example lets say a class of 100 girls study in a university in the same class room and 15 girls are from muslim back ground and there is no ban on headscarf and these girls wear it to school. The first day they enter the class they will group together as one single entity on common grounds seeing that they are all wearing headscarf and this unity will do what? it will prevent them from forming an aliance or friendship with the rest of the girls and the rest of the girls themself will make sure that these muslim girls are not part of the rest of the class.
i do not want such a divid in the young minds just because of this head scarf and if i were the education minister of my state, even i would be doing the same. but the place i live is INDIA and we are too tolerant for this and the muslims brother/sisters themself do not give too much importance for this headscarf in my country

Your example is flawed.

It brings back visions of segregation-era US where black pupils cliqued together because blacks and whites saw each other as 'different'. Or when interracial couples felt singled out because they were viewed as 'different'.

The solution to people getting freaked out by headscarves is not to legitimize their xenophobia by outlawing the scarves; it is to educate them to disregard the headscarf -- the same way as they disregard the skin color -- and interact with the individual.
 
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