Is Pakistani principally a race or ideology?

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

So I was having this discussion in my family, and the topic came up.

To give you a background, I am from the USA and we have a large Pakistani origin population which neither speak any Pakistani tongues, know about our history, care about Pakistani politics, nor self-identify as Pakistani.

So would such persons be identified as Pakistani even if they want nothing to do with Pakistan, and choose instead either to identify only as Muslims or only as Americans (Canadians, Australians, British, Europeans etc.)

Although the concept of a (Muslim) homeland along the Indus/Sindh River is a much older concept, Pakistan was first conceived by our founders as a place where Muslims/Non-Muslims of our region can live in peace, practice our faith, and work on achieving a model nation which promotes equality, freedom, and brotherhood for all its citizens.

The two nation theory and the movement for Pakistan were definitely ideologies and one had to ascribe to them to be part of the Pakistan movement.

After independence, Pakistan and Pakistanis began being treated as an ethnic and racial group by Non-Muslim countries. For example the hateful epithet ‘Paaki’ is racial in design, and not at all ideological.

Sometime after 2000s, Pakistanis, esp in America, began to distance themselves from their country of origin and ascribe to the term ‘Desi,’ whose meaning was changed to incorporate Indians and Bengalis. Desi originally is a term only for Pakistanis (Des, Pardes) or Pakistani products (Desi egg, ghee, chickens, etc.)

So we have a whole generation of descendants of Pakistanis in the diaspora who have no connection or desire to associate with Pakistan. They grew up intentionally avoiding Pakistani languages, Pakistani immigrants (besides relatives,) many have intermarried with people of Non-Pakistani origin, and they have no concept of the history/struggle/politics of the Pakistani homeland.

There is no doubt that Pakistani is now a robust and strong nationality, which has gained a new lease on life thanks to PTI and Pakistani military, however besides this the question needs to be asked.

Is Pakistani a racial, ethnic identity or is it an ideological choice?

For those who do not care for Pakistan (new generation of the diaspora) and those who actively fight against our state (like Husain Haqqani, Altaf Hussain, Rehman Khan, etc.,) are they Pakistanis?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Please post your thoughts and comments below.

I prefer that only Pakistanis vote in this poll.

 

[Zee-shaun]

Pakistan is a multi ethnic society, it has always been like that. We are united by idiology, not race.

 

[Azadkashmir]

to be a Pakistani is to batter the Pakistani that forget who he is etc.

 

[paritosh]

Sometime after 2000s, Pakistanis, esp in America, began to distance themselves from their country of origin and ascribe to the term ‘Desi,’ whose meaning was changed to incorporate Indians and Bengalis. Desi originally is a term only for Pakistanis (Des, Pardes) or Pakistani products (Desi egg, ghee, chickens, etc.)

Not a Pakistani, and not participating in this discussion, but wanted to point out that the quoted part of your post shows how desperate you guys have become in removing any trace of your association with your heritage.
'Desi' is by no means a Pakistani term, its origin is sanskrit and Indians were the first south asians to claim this term (right around the time the infamous 'dot busters' and other white hate groups had started attacking the 'Patels' in New Jersey in the 1950s and 60s). Please don't claim sanskrit as yours as well.

 

[Nilgiri]

Not a Pakistani, and not participating in this discussion, but wanted to point out that the quoted part of your post shows how desperate you guys have become in removing any trace of your association with your heritage.
'Desi' is by no means a Pakistani term, its origin is sanskrit and Indians were the first south asians to claim this term (right around the time the infamous 'dot busters' and other white hate groups had started attacking the 'Patels' in New Jersey in the 1950s and 60s). Please don't claim sanskrit as yours as well.

Just let the butthurt historical revisionism do its thing. Its what happens in safe spaces.

They go to any seminar/3rd party that matters (if they so rare chance upon an invite at one), they get laughed right out the door. Please try understand where this comes from rather than caring too much about fixing or even responding to it....some safe spaces have to be nurtured for the greater good if you know what I mean.

The hidden benefit though is watching the identity complex wars happen here stemming from this.

 

[nahtanbob]

Being Pakistani would be a race/ethnicity partially masquerading as ideology

i did not vote in deference to your request @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

 

[Gorgin Khan]

Pakistan is an multi ethnical and ideological state which came into being on the basis of religion.

 

[Vortex]

One question : from where is coming indian civilisation ?

 

[Mamluk]

'Desi' is by no means a Pakistani term, its origin is sanskrit and Indians were the first south asians to claim this term (right around the time the infamous 'dot busters' and other white hate groups had started attacking the 'Patels' in New Jersey in the 1950s and 60s). Please don't claim sanskrit as yours as well.

Are you fucking kidding me? Sanskrit was born in Pakistan! Read some history. Your upper caste Hindus are basically products of men from Pakistan moving to Ganges and producing children with local native women (captives basically).

 

[Crusher]

For me as an indigenous Pakistani, it is a collection of territorial ethnicities of Punjab, Sindh, KPK, Balochistan and Kashmir (whatever is in Pakistan at the moment). I selected the ethnicitiy (in the sense of indigenous ethnicites of Pakistani territory) option, I don't care what "ideological" people think about it.

 

[Peshwa]

So I was having this discussion in my family, and the topic came up.

To give you a background, I am from the USA and we have a large Pakistani origin population which neither speak any Pakistani tongues, know about our history, care about Pakistani politics, nor self-identify as Pakistani.

So would such persons be identified as Pakistani even if they want nothing to do with Pakistan, and choose instead either to identify only as Muslims or only as Americans (Canadians, Australians, British, Europeans etc.)

Although the concept of a (Muslim) homeland along the Indus/Sindh River is a much older concept, Pakistan was first conceived by our founders as a place where Muslims/Non-Muslims of our region can live in peace, practice our faith, and work on achieving a model nation which promotes equality, freedom, and brotherhood for all its citizens.

The two nation theory and the movement for Pakistan were definitely ideologies and one had to ascribe to them to be part of the Pakistan movement.

After independence, Pakistan and Pakistanis began being treated as an ethnic and racial group by Non-Muslim countries. For example the hateful epithet ‘Paaki’ is racial in design, and not at all ideological.

Sometime after 2000s, Pakistanis, esp in America, began to distance themselves from their country of origin and ascribe to the term ‘Desi,’ whose meaning was changed to incorporate Indians and Bengalis. Desi originally is a term only for Pakistanis (Des, Pardes) or Pakistani products (Desi egg, ghee, chickens, etc.)

So we have a whole generation of descendants of Pakistanis in the diaspora who have no connection or desire to associate with Pakistan. They grew up intentionally avoiding Pakistani languages, Pakistani immigrants (besides relatives,) many have intermarried with people of Non-Pakistani origin, and they have no concept of the history/struggle/politics of the Pakistani homeland.

There is no doubt that Pakistani is now a robust and strong nationality, which has gained a new lease on life thanks to PTI and Pakistani military, however besides this the question needs to be asked.

Is Pakistani a racial, ethnic identity or is it an ideological choice?

For those who do not care for Pakistan (new generation of the diaspora) and those who actively fight against our state (like Husain Haqqani, Altaf Hussain, Rehman Khan, etc.,) are they Pakistanis?

Don’t have an opinion on any of the rest except the bold which is absolutely false..
The word Des means native or aboriginal is derived from Sanskrit. The use of desi comes from Hindi.
And Certainly NOT used only for Pakistanis.
Please correct and move on.

Are you fucking kidding me? Sanskrit was born in Pakistan! Read some history. Your upper caste Hindus are basically products of men from Pakistan moving to Ganges and producing children with local native women (captives basically).

Don’t argue for the sake of it.
The modern term Desi is derived from Hindi..PERIOD!

 

[paritosh]

Are you fucking kidding me? Sanskrit was born in Pakistan! Read some history. Your upper caste Hindus are basically products of men from Pakistan moving to Ganges and producing children with local native women (captives basically).

Dude I have read enough, please quote the research that backs your hypothesis. You think our border was stopping any mixing from happening on your side? Eastern part of your country and north-west India are racially the same. Western Pakistan is where the central asian gene traits start showing up more. Are you claiming that vedic Sanskrit was developed in a single region? avestan and other Indo-aryan languages when came to the second urbanisation move (movement of central asian populations from the Indus to the gangetic plains) is when Vedic sanskrit was thought to have been written in (Rig veda). My name has more Sanskrit than in all of Pakistan, also are you claiming that Pakistanis have hindu ancestry by any chance?

 

[Imad.Khan]

Majority of the world countries today are multi-racial/multi-ethnic entities and Pakistan is no-different. The creation of the country was based on an ideology, just like many other countries. Pakistani is a nationality, not a race/ethnicity and majority of the people that identify themselves as Pakistanis is not due to ideology but by birth.

 

[Kabira]

So would such persons be identified as Pakistani even if they want nothing to do with Pakistan, and choose instead either to identify only as Muslims or only as Americans (Canadians, Australians, British, Europeans etc.)

Hmm are you sure about that? In a era of Trump and far right in western world, doubt they will let them forget about their identity even if they wanted.