Is Pakistan Losing Another Decade Like the Lost Decade of 1990s?

[surya kiran]

Unlike Asian Tigers, the developed countries took centuries to develop. Democracy does not promote rapid growth as is obvious by the huge and growing gap between China and India.

As China's share of the world's extreme poor (living below $1.25 per day per person level) has dramatically declined, India's share has significantly increased. India now contributes 33% (up from 22 % in 1981). While the extreme poor in Sub-Saharan Africa represented only 11 percent of the world’s total in 1981, they now account for 34% of the world’s extreme poor, and China comes next contributing 13 percent (down from 43 percent in 1981), according to the World Bank report titled State of the Poor.

Haq's Musings: India's Share of World's Poorest Jumped From 22% to 33% in 30 Years!

Let us also state that over 10 years, more than 100 MN have come out of the BPL. Again, let's not make this an India issue?

Democracies work. Post WW2, economies were in shambles. The democratic countries were up and running much before the non-democratic ones? So, can we make the assumption that democracies are better are bouncing back and less suscpetible than non-democracies?

 

[Progressive1]

Punjab is developed like us .But Kerala is front runner when it comes to HDI.But Punjab is also ahead us in many other fields.Except what we called us BIMARU all others are either developed or nearly developed.And in this BIMARU Bihar and MP is growing in exorbitant GDP growth.
About 2030 MP become present Kerala or Punjab.

thanks, was expecting this as Punjab is traditionally affluent state of Sub continent(sitting on bread basket) but I have seen many times Indian Punjab being sweepingly grouped with blanket term North India in discussing economic problem associated with the region.

 

[rockstar08]

AUR YEH AYI EK AUR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT PAKISTANIOOO, ENJOY

 

[RiazHaq]

Let us also state that over 10 years, more than 100 MN have come out of the BPL. Again, let's not make this an India issue?

Democracies work. Post WW2, economies were in shambles. The democratic countries were up and running much before the non-democratic ones? So, can we make the assumption that democracies are better are bouncing back and less suscpetible than non-democracies?

"Democratic" countries were industrialized well before WW2. Unlike poor developing countries in Asia, the European democracies had well-educated skilled middle-class populations that helped rebuild.

None of the European "democracies" industrialized as rapidly as Russia and China.

thanks, was expecting this as Punjab is traditionally affluent state of Sub continent(sitting on bread basket) but I have seen many times Indian Punjab being sweepingly grouped with blanket term North India in discussing economic problem associated with the region.

40% of Pakistanis and 60% of Indians work in agriculture.

Pakistan has lower levels of rural poverty than India because Pakistan's value-added agriculture is almost 2X of India's.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan Leads South Asia in Agriculture Value Addition

Haq's Musings: Pakistan Leads South Asia in Agriculture Value Addition

 

[RiazHaq]

Punjab is developed like us .But Kerala is front runner when it comes to HDI.But Punjab is also ahead us in many other fields.Except what we called us BIMARU all others are either developed or nearly developed.And in this BIMARU Bihar and MP is growing in exorbitant GDP growth.
About 2030 MP become present Kerala or Punjab.

Here's a fact about the Indian state of Kerala that is often ignored. Kerala's is a money-order economy.

Kerala has about two million people working overseas out of the total state population of about 30 million, according to BBC's Soutik Biswas....two orders of magnitude higher proportion (66 per 1000) than either Bangladesh (0.65 per 1000) or Pakistan (0.5 per 1000), according to Nationmaster.

Keralites remittances may be one of the reasons why Kerala has less poverty and higher social indicators than the rest of India.

 

[SrNair]

Here's a fact about the Indian state of Kerala that is often ignored. Kerala's is a money-order economy.

Kerala has about two million people working overseas out of the total state population of about 30 million, according to BBC's Soutik Biswas....two orders of magnitude higher proportion (66 per 1000) than either Bangladesh (0.65 per 1000) or Pakistan (0.5 per 1000), according to Nationmaster.

Keralites remittances may be one of the reasons why Kerala has less poverty and higher social indicators than the rest of India.

That doesnt matter.We dont have sufficient land for manufacturing sector or
other big industries .When the opportunities in middle east finished we will get opportunity in our country in different states.And it is already started.fromTN ,Karnataka etc
FYI we have a rare phenomenon that is rarely seen in South Asia.We have contracting population.High HDI also made that possible.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Here's a fact about the Indian state of Kerala that is often ignored. Kerala's is a money-order economy.

Kerala has about two million people working overseas out of the total state population of about 30 million, according to BBC's Soutik Biswas....two orders of magnitude higher proportion (66 per 1000) than either Bangladesh (0.65 per 1000) or Pakistan (0.5 per 1000), according to Nationmaster.

Keralites remittances may be one of the reasons why Kerala has less poverty and higher social indicators than the rest of India.

Very good point, Kerala with 30 million population receive $12 billion while Pakistan with 185 million around $15 billion.
.

 

[surya kiran]

"Democratic" countries were industrialized well before WW2. Unlike poor developing countries in Asia, the European democracies had well-educated skilled middle-class populations that helped rebuild.

None of the European "democracies" industrialized as rapidly as Russia and China.

So, then the issue is about education as per your logic. Because, education leads to skills?

What would you say to the industrial destruction of the countries during world war 2? They might as well have started in the stone age.

The point is you have a habit of blaming democracies for non performance, while there is more than sufficient evidence to prove that, the countries which succeeded did so due to correct policies. The Chinese miracle happened after the death of millions. The Russian economy had deaths, the less said the better. Are you as a Pakistani ready to accept the death of millions of your countrymen? Africa has lot of dictatorships. Are they developed?

The point is you need to industrialise and then come out with policies which will take the economy forward. Your complete argument of saying its only dictatorships which performs is flawed because none of today's developed nations had dictatorships while developing. They had policies.

 

[RiazHaq]

So, then the issue is about education as per your logic. Because, education leads to skills?

What would you say to the industrial destruction of the countries during world war 2? They might as well have started in the stone age.

The point is you have a habit of blaming democracies for non performance, while there is more than sufficient evidence to prove that, the countries which succeeded did so due to correct policies. The Chinese miracle happened after the death of millions. The Russian economy had deaths, the less said the better. Are you as a Pakistani ready to accept the death of millions of your countrymen? Africa has lot of dictatorships. Are they developed?

The point is you need to industrialise and then come out with policies which will take the economy forward. Your complete argument of saying its only dictatorships which performs is flawed because none of today's developed nations had dictatorships while developing. They had policies.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://www.riazhaq.com/2010/05/soaring-chinese-imports-worry-india.html

 

[surya kiran]

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Haq's Musings: Soaring Chinese Imports and Twin Deficits Worry India

Can you answer even one query without India? I specifically asked you to reply to the democracies performances? They have taken more time, but did not have genocidal maniacs.

A simple question for you, which you have not answered till now. Are you ready to accept the deaths of millions of Pakistanis to achieve the industrialisation of China and the erstwhile Soviet Union. If your answer is yes, I will rest my argument. If no, then your entire premise is flawed.

 

[RiazHaq]

Can you answer even one query without India? I specifically asked you to reply to the democracies performances? They have taken more time, but did not have genocidal maniacs.

A simple question for you, which you have not answered till now. Are you ready to accept the deaths of millions of Pakistanis to achieve the industrialisation of China and the erstwhile Soviet Union. If your answer is yes, I will rest my argument. If no, then your entire premise is flawed.

Millions of Indians are dying of preventable hunger and disease every year while China is prospering with much lower levels of poverty and no hunger deaths.

A British government report on child hunger and malnutrition in India is an "economic powerhouse" but a "nutritional weakling". Here is an excerpt from Times online story:

India is condemning another generation to brain damage, poor education and early death by failing to meet its targets for tackling the malnutrition that affects almost half of its children, a study backed by the British Government concluded yesterday.

The country is an “economic powerhouse but a nutritional weakling”, said the report by the British-based Institute of Development Studies (IDS), which incorporated papers by more than 20 India analysts. It said that despite India’s recent economic boom, at least 46 per cent of children up to the age of 3 still suffer from malnutrition, making the country home to a third of the world’s malnourished children. The UN defines malnutrition as a state in which an individual can no longer maintain natural bodily capacities such as growth, pregnancy, lactation, learning abilities, physical work and resisting and recovering from disease.

In 2001, India committed to the UN Millennium Development Goal of halving its number of hungry by 2015. China has already met its target. India, though, will not meet its goal until 2043, based on its current rate of progress, the IDS report concluded.

“It’s the contrast between India’s fantastic economic growth and its persistent malnutrition which is so shocking,” Lawrence Haddad, director of the IDS, told The Times. He said that an average of 6,000 children died every day in India; 2,000-3,000 of them from malnutrition.

 

[my2cents]

Can you answer even one query without India? I specifically asked you to reply to the democracies performances? They have taken more time, but did not have genocidal maniacs.

A simple question for you, which you have not answered till now. Are you ready to accept the deaths of millions of Pakistanis to achieve the industrialisation of China and the erstwhile Soviet Union. If your answer is yes, I will rest my argument. If no, then your entire premise is flawed.

Actually Pakistanis tend to welcome military dictatorships more than democratic elected leaders. Hence you don't see riots erupt in Pakistan when they had military take overs. Your presumption that millions will be slaughtered because of military transition
wrt to Pakistan is also flawed. Some nations need a leader with a iron hand at the helm to tame the populace. Dictators serve them well.

 

[RiazHaq]

Haq's Musings: Indian Economic Miracle is Deceptive!

 

[surya kiran]

Millions of Indians are dying of preventable hunger and disease every year while China is prospering with much lower levels of poverty and no hunger deaths.

A British government report on child hunger and malnutrition in India is an "economic powerhouse" but a "nutritional weakling". Here is an excerpt from Times online story:

India is condemning another generation to brain damage, poor education and early death by failing to meet its targets for tackling the malnutrition that affects almost half of its children, a study backed by the British Government concluded yesterday.

.

Your inability to think beyond India, shows the amount of illogical constructions of arguments made. I asked a simple query to which you have not answered and hence, the conclusion,

DEMOCRACY IS BETTER THAN DICTATORSHIP FOR PAKISTAN

If you wish to disprove this, answer the simple query I am asking for the third time

"Are you ready to accept the deaths of millions of Pakistanis to achieve the industrialisation of China and the erstwhile Soviet Union. If your answer is yes, I will rest my argument. If no, then your entire premise is flawed."

Let me give you an example. If the hypothesis is that to stablise Pakistan, a dictator decides in the overall good of the nation, the Taliban and its supporters should be executed without trial would you agree to it? I mean, kill all the tribals and their families which in some way agree with the way of life of the Taliban and its principles? Are you ok with this? In a single word, if you agreed to this, its called genocide.

Else rest your case.

Again let me re-iterate. What defines economies and growth are policies, not types of governance. You as an economist should have known better, than to read the summary of the first paragraph of a report and call it the holy grail.

Haq's Musings: Indian Economic Miracle is Deceptive!

@WebMaster is this an India vs China thread?

 

[RiazHaq]

Your inability to think beyond India, shows the amount of illogical constructions of arguments made. I asked a simple query to which you have not answered and hence, the conclusion,

DEMOCRACY IS BETTER THAN DICTATORSHIP FOR PAKISTAN

If you wish to disprove this, answer the simple query I am asking for the third time

"Are you ready to accept the deaths of millions of Pakistanis to achieve the industrialisation of China and the erstwhile Soviet Union. If your answer is yes, I will rest my argument. If no, then your entire premise is flawed."

@WebMaster is this an India vs China thread?

Your question's basic premise is flawed. It assumes that dictators always cause death of millions which is simply not the case in Pakistan.

To the contrary, dictators in Pakistan have accelerated both social and economic development in the country in the same way that most dictators in East Asia and ASEAN have.

Haq's Musings: Looking Back at Military Rule in Indonesia and Pakistan

As to you nonsensical question to the webmaster, the debate is between democracy (as in India) and dictatorship (as in China). Unlike China, millions of Indians are still dying of hunger every year. And the share of the world's poor in India has increased from 22% 30 years ago to 33% now.

Haq's Musings: India's Share of World's Poorest Jumped From 22% to 33% in 30 Years!