Is Pakistan Better Off Industrially (and More Diverse in Industrial Production) Compared to Bangladesh?

[Bilal9]

Guys I view industrial small scale production all the time on different video platforms in India, Bangladesh and Pakistan, and IMHO I'd say Pakistan has a far superior industrial basis than Bangladesh on small scale Industrial sector (although a bit backdated in technology but very self-sustaining nonetheless).

The basis of economical production In small scale sector are all local raw materials, sometimes recycled. I will highlight some videos here for you all to see,

It is my belief that you will realize how active/productive Pakistani small-scale Industrial sector is and how we in Bangladesh can collaborate with that sector in Pakistan to improve ours - maybe using JV's and/or employing Pakistani machinery and experts who are in a unique position to help us.

The tech used is what is termed 'appropriate technology' whose main advantage is extreme low overhead and economical methods to make products of "high enough" and "acceptable" quality in remote areas, where low investment and backdated technology are advantages, not barriers to production.

Making products using automation and in super clean conditions like Walton often entail high cost. I have immense respect for these hard-working Mehnati folks in Pakistan who work in demanding conditions to earn a living. I guess some introduction to safety regimes (like covers for rollers and gears and shoes for workers who handle molten metal) would not hurt in some cases.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Guys I view industrial small scale production all the time on different video platforms in India, Bangladesh and Pakistan, and IMHO I'd say Pakistan has a far superior industrial basis than Bangladesh on small scale Industrial sector (although a bit backdated in technology but very self-sustaining nonetheless).

The basis of economical production In small scale sector are all local raw materials, sometimes recycled. I will highlight some videos here for you all to see,

It is my belief that you will realize how active/productive Pakistani small-scale Industrial sector is and how we in Bangladesh can collaborate with that sector in Pakistan to improve ours - maybe using JV's and/or employing Pakistani machinery and experts who are in a unique position to help us.

The tech used is what is termed 'appropriate technology' whose main advantage is extreme low overhead and economical methods to make products of "high enough" and "acceptable" quality in remote areas, where low investment and backdated technology are advantages, not barriers to production.

Making products using automation and in super clean conditions like Walton often entail high cost. I have immense respect for these hard-working Mehnati folks in Pakistan who work in demanding conditions to earn a living. I guess some introduction to safety regimes (like covers for rollers and gears and shoes for workers who handle molten metal) would not hurt in some cases.

Pakistan makes her own Fighters, Missiles, Tanks, Subs etc. What does Bangladesh make?

 

[blueazure]

Making products using automation and in super clean conditions like Walton often entail high cost. I have immense respect for these hard-working Mehnati folks in Pakistan who work in demanding conditions to earn a living. I guess some introduction to safety regimes (like covers for rollers and gears and shoes for workers who handle molten metal) would not hurt in some cases.

while i appreciate your interest , id point out that these 'cottage' industries have two major issues

1. economies of scale

2. QA/QC

case in being, the ammo and gun makers of DARRA belt in KPK province, pakistan . they arent very educated but can make glock clones easily. however, the quality of those weapons is sub par, the barrels arent grooved and rifled properly, the triggers have play , etcetra

i dont know about the average bengali worker, is he educated at the level of B tech ? does he ensure proper QC ?

Pakistan makes her own Fighters, Missiles, Tanks, Subs etc. What does Bangladesh make?

it has a vibrant textile and pharma sector, it has pulled millions out of poverty in the last 2 decades , its rapidly progressing and will , by 2040 , enter the league of middle level income countries

while in india - you have a fascist butcher who has destroyed economy with demonetizations, covid lockdowns, GST , farmer protests etc

 

[Indos]

Bangladesh has greater manufacturing output than Pakistan (2018 data)

Mapped: China's Manufacturing Superpower vs. the World

What’s in store for the world’s largest manufacturing producers?

howmuch.net

And yes @Bilal9 your estimation is right, Pakistan has better complexity than Bangladesh in their manufacturing, but this based on export only


Country & Product Complexity Rankings
Economic development requires the accumulation of productive knowledge and its use in both more and more complex industries. Harvard Growth Lab’s Country Rankings assess the current state of a country’s productive knowledge, through the Economic Complexity Index (ECI). Countries improve their ECI by increasing the number and complexity of the products they successfully export. Use the visualizations below to (1) determine a country’s ECI ranking, (2) assess a country’s change in ECI since 1995 and (3) compare a country’s ranking vis-a-vis other countries. Learn more here.


https://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings

 

[Vapnope]

Pakistan makes her own Fighters, Missiles, Tanks, Subs etc. What does Bangladesh make?

Dude that is a poor attempt to troll. You can share your perspective about the two countries instead and we can all learn together.

 

[Bilal9]

i dont know about the average bengali worker, is he educated at the level of B tech ? does he ensure proper QC ?

No - they are in the same boat as Pakistani workers, but literacy in the new generation maybe only slightly higher. Which in my opinion isn't really a gamechanger. Kids from educated families with B.Tech from a basic school may go into factories to work, but only maybe Apparel factories (which are relatively clean) and then again only lower middle class kids. Those kids with B.Tech are trained and know how to conduct QC as it is an established and widely circulated skill for export industry.

Economies of scale (due to use of antiquated technology) and QA/QC are a problem in Bangladesh too, but there is a price/quality equation which works for these small scale industries. Since things are handmade, QC problems can be corrected or the defective product recycled.

If you guys remember, Japanese production between WW1 and WW2 (as well as for twenty/thirty years after), was also largely based on small scale cottage industry production. The reason Tokyo was firebombed by Americans was because USAF and their govt. believed that most wartime materiel (such as grenades, guns, flight instruments and many critical precision wartime items) were all made in cottage industry situations in the city of Tokyo itself. Which resulted in 100,000 Japanese civilian lives lost and over one million left homeless. It was a classic war crime. However after the firebombing, Tokyo industrial output (mostly cottage industry) dropped by half.

Industrial Automation in Japan arrived in the 1970's, Taiwan and Korea followed in twenty more years, and by the time it was China's turn in the early 1990's, their industrial processes were highly automated to start with.

I remember back in the early days of my education, I used Chinese copies of Parker and Sheaffer fountain pens and those were probably machine made, though some of the processes were still manual (like making nibs). Pens (especially Fountain pens) are a nice indicator of small-scale industrialization, which all Asian economies (including Japan) specialized in. It was a nice precision product of cottage industries in all Asian countries which has significant demand.

Pakistan has better complexity than Bangladesh in their manufacturing, but this based on export only

That is true. But in my experience and what I have seen, Pakistani basic light engg. products made for internal consumption (such as cookware, knives. pressure cookers, utensils) are quite a bit more diverse and have way more variety than Bangladesh local products.

I can venture a guess why - and its because these equivalent products Made in India are relatively cheap and easily available in Bangladesh, so no Bangladeshi product could compete with that economy of scale offered by Indian products (India is a much bigger market), and therefore local industry never developed in Bangladesh. Bangladesh is however catching up fast.

This is Bangladesh Govts. fault because Govt. never assigned protective tariffs against Indian products coming into Bangladesh. This of course was not a problem in Pakistan, Pakistan I don't think allows a lot of Indian products into their market to start with.

It is widely maintained in Bangladesh business circles that the reason so many Indian products come into Bangladesh is because of Indian govt, pressure and strong arming Bangladesh govt. to not assign protective tariff to Indian imports, which has been continuing for fifty odd years. A compliant AL govt. does not hurt for Indians.

 

[Vapnope]

Excellent thread and i hope people from other countries also contribute positively to this thread.

As @blueazure correctly pointed out that our small businesses are numerous but they lack the QA/QC hence cannot even compete outside Pakistan. Sialkot in Pakistan is known to have more per capita income than any other city in Pakistan but the fact remains that these industries employ unskilled or semi skilled people. The owners are resistant to innovation and do not want to upgrade their industries hence despite making a good fortune for them they add very little to Pakistan's exports.

Another chronic problem is that these businessmen do not have the understanding of project/product life cycle costs and end up destroying the quality of the product in their attempts for cost saving. It has been a consistent feedback from buyers that Pakistani companies do not maintain their quality over the years.

Leaving aside government inaction and virtually non existent assistance, it remains a fact that our businessmen lack the vision to expand their business and do not believe in healthy competition. In another thread i posted that there are 850 pharmaceutical companies in Pakistan but recently only 1 company got WHO certification while there are more than 10 companies in Bangladesh and 150 pharma companies in India which are WHO certified. Now there is only one pakistani pharma fulfills the requirement to export medicines to middle east, Europe and US. You can imagine how outdated our thinking has been.

 

[TOTUU]

Bangladesh has greater manufacturing output than Pakistan (2018 data)

View attachment 785452

Mapped: China's Manufacturing Superpower vs. the World

What’s in store for the world’s largest manufacturing producers?

howmuch.net

And yes @Bilal9 your estimation is right, Pakistan has better complexity than Bangladesh in their manufacturing, but this based on export only


Country & Product Complexity Rankings
Economic development requires the accumulation of productive knowledge and its use in both more and more complex industries. Harvard Growth Lab’s Country Rankings assess the current state of a country’s productive knowledge, through the Economic Complexity Index (ECI). Countries improve their ECI by increasing the number and complexity of the products they successfully export. Use the visualizations below to (1) determine a country’s ECI ranking, (2) assess a country’s change in ECI since 1995 and (3) compare a country’s ranking vis-a-vis other countries. Learn more here.


https://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings

 

[Bilal9]

Excellent thread and i hope people from other countries also contribute positively to this thread.

As @blueazure correctly pointed out that our small businesses are numerous but they lack the QA/QC hence cannot even compete outside Pakistan. Sialkot in Pakistan is known to have more per capita income than any other city in Pakistan but the fact remains that these industries employ unskilled or semi skilled people. The owners are resistant to innovation and do not want to upgrade their industries hence despite making a good fortune for them they add very little to Pakistan's exports.

Another chronic problem is that these businessmen do not have the understanding of project/product life cycle costs and end up destroying the quality of the product in their attempts for cost saving. It has been a consistent feedback from buyers that Pakistani companies do not maintain their quality over the years.

Leaving aside government inaction and virtually non existent assistance, it remains a fact that our businessmen lack the vision to expand their business and do not believe in healthy competition. In another thread i posted that there are 850 pharmaceutical companies in Pakistan but recently only 1 company got WHO certification while there are more than 10 companies in Bangladesh and 150 pharma companies in India which are WHO certified. Now there is only one pakistani pharma fulfills the requirement to export medicines to middle east, Europe and US. You can imagine how outdated our thinking has been.

Insha-Allah change will come brother.

It may seem slow in coming, but lately signs of economic recovery in Pakistan is more and more apparent.

EnewsPaper

EnewsPaper

enewspaper.com.pk

 

[ALi Rizwan]

Excellent thread and i hope people from other countries also contribute positively to this thread.

As @blueazure correctly pointed out that our small businesses are numerous but they lack the QA/QC hence cannot even compete outside Pakistan. Sialkot in Pakistan is known to have more per capita income than any other city in Pakistan but the fact remains that these industries employ unskilled or semi skilled people. The owners are resistant to innovation and do not want to upgrade their industries hence despite making a good fortune for them they add very little to Pakistan's exports.

Another chronic problem is that these businessmen do not have the understanding of project/product life cycle costs and end up destroying the quality of the product in their attempts for cost saving. It has been a consistent feedback from buyers that Pakistani companies do not maintain their quality over the years.

Leaving aside government inaction and virtually non existent assistance, it remains a fact that our businessmen lack the vision to expand their business and do not believe in healthy competition. In another thread i posted that there are 850 pharmaceutical companies in Pakistan but recently only 1 company got WHO certification while there are more than 10 companies in Bangladesh and 150 pharma companies in India which are WHO certified. Now there is only one pakistani pharma fulfills the requirement to export medicines to middle east, Europe and US. You can imagine how outdated our thinking has been.

Sialkot issue is not about skilled or semi skilled. Secondly those level of production either manual or partial machines required high level of skills. Third they have upgraded their system if not they will lose market to others companies in Sialkot.
Problem is that we don't have any Brand. We manufacture products for third party as result they have high profit margin while we are happy will small profit margins.

For other industries main issue is cost of production. Although inflation is going up but electricity cost is insane specially for a industries targeting price.
industries should install grid-tie solar. Its the only logical solution for their current problem.

& We claim to be agri based country but our output is pathetic. Fertilizer plant are getting large subsidies on gas. there was an article on paper probably a year or 2 back that compare Tax top salary guy with biggest land owner. one pay heavy taxes other pay peanuts. Then we suffer from Drought as well as Flood because of politics on Dam & the dam which we politicized is the only dam most required based on its location with no alternate option.

 

[touela]

Regarding floodings, some countries in EU use LIDAR technology to see which areas are proned to be heavily flooded and thereby find solutions to divert it somewhere else.
Maybe if Pakistan does the same they could divert the water towards rivers attached to dams.

 

[Maula Jatt]

while i appreciate your interest , id point out that these 'cottage' industries have two major issues

1. economies of scale

2. QA/QC

case in being, the ammo and gun makers of DARRA belt in KPK province, pakistan . they arent very educated but can make glock clones easily. however, the quality of those weapons is sub par, the barrels arent grooved and rifled properly, the triggers have play , etcetra

i dont know about the average bengali worker, is he educated at the level of B tech ? does he ensure proper QC ?


it has a vibrant textile and pharma sector, it has pulled millions out of poverty in the last 2 decades , its rapidly progressing and will , by 2040 , enter the league of middle level income countries

while in india - you have a fascist butcher who has destroyed economy with demonetizations, covid lockdowns, GST , farmer protests etc

I am a big believer in gov loans
If we start giving out subsidize loans to our SME sector they can upgrade their businesses with better machinery, as long as you have your basics as in a guy making stuff stuff

you can work something out with better machinery

you are absolutely right with brands, I was looking at this DW documentary where the company sourced a lot of their stuff from Pakistan but in the end added value
which ended up making them tons of money compared to the Pak suppliers

 

[PoondolotoPandalum]

View attachment 785478
[/QUOTE]

How come Vietnam is lower than Bangladesh?

They're considerably higher up the manufacturing value chain than us. Their exports of Samsung smartphones alone are much higher than our total exports as a country.

 

[Maula Jatt]

View attachment 785478

How come Vietnam is lower than Bangladesh?

They're considerably higher up the manufacturing value chain than us. Their exports of Samsung smartphones alone are much higher than our total exports as a country.

It seems like BD, China and Vietnam are the only two countries on the list that managed to increase their manufacturing value. Perhaps it's why the aforementioned countries still managed to grow their economies while everyone else shrank. Though Vietnam's currently under a lot of problem
[/QUOTE]
how?

 

[Sulman Badshah]

In large scale manufacturing, Pakistan is growing 14-15% annually
I think Pakistan should focus on SME's