Is Musharraf Ahemadi (Qadiani) ??

[Srirangan]

He's a damn good president and his trip to the US has proven that so far. It's been quite rosey so far.

Dude, I thought you'ld know better. PR ops and foreign trips don't make a President.

What has Musharraf done in his recent trip? Let's analyze:

1. Made stunning "revelations" .. to sell his book. Everyone knew America would bomb Pakistan "back to stone age" as the General revealed if it didn't comply. Why reveal now? Sell book more.

How does it effect Pakistan? Makes it look weak and gullible to International (read American) pressure. Again, this too is a known fact, but no point having a military dictator shed light at this aspect of his country, isn't that so?

2. Kashmir. Hmm, Bush says "progress should be made" .. Bush repeats "Bilateral issue to be solved between India-Pakistan". What has Mushie's trip gained? Zero, ziltch.

What's the point? Other than take off the spot light from the Baloch-Bugti Saga for a while, this trip has done probably nothing. I doubt you cpould list even one positive Pakistan has gained from this Autobiography promotional tour undertaken by General Musharraf.

 

[Awesome]

1. Made stunning "revelations" .. to sell his book. Everyone knew America would bomb Pakistan "back to stone age" as the General revealed if it didn't comply. Why reveal now? Sell book more.

Did you miss the threat of Bush to send thousands of troops to Pakistan?

How does it effect Pakistan? Makes it look weak and gullible to International (read American) pressure. Again, this too is a known fact, but no point having a military dictator shed light at this aspect of his country, isn't that so?

Lol... Ok since u've missed the other discussion, lemme fill you in.

Imagine now with the threat of sending those troops to Pak... Now when Pak says NO to Bush, he can't again give a threat to bomb Pakistan to the stone age... Mush has called him on it and the US media freaked out too.

2. Kashmir. Hmm, Bush says "progress should be made" .. Bush repeats "Bilateral issue to be solved between India-Pakistan". What has Mushie's trip gained? Zero, ziltch.

Kashmir wasn't really the forefront issue here with the US visit. It's been a trip of educating the Americans about Pakistanis.

The 60 minutes interview, the UN address, The candid Q&A with the GW Uni students and faculty, and day after he's showing up on Jon Stewart's Daily Show! Imagine that, Mush on Comedy Central!

PR? hmmm Well we are all PR Officers for our nation and who would realize this more than the President.

What's the point? Other than take off the spot light from the Baloch-Bugti Saga for a while, this trip has done probably nothing. I doubt you cpould list even one positive Pakistan has gained from this Autobiography promotional tour undertaken by General Musharraf.

Ha, just did. That's because you got no idea how closely I'm following it.

 

[Srirangan]

Did you miss the threat of Bush to send thousands of troops to Pakistan?

Lol... Ok since u've missed the other discussion, lemme fill you in.

Imagine now with the threat of sending those troops to Pak... Now when Pak says NO to Bush, he can't again give a threat to bomb Pakistan to the stone age... Mush has called him on it and the US media freaked out too.

Wait a sec. Let's say Person 1 threatens to beat up Person 2. Person 2 then makes a statement to the press that Person 1 will not be able to beat up Person 2.

How is this a gain for Person 2? If Person 2 doesn't get beaten up, he has just avoided a loss. Avoiding unnecessary losses are not gains. If you think it is a gain, then you have too low an expectation from Person 2.

PR? hmmm Well we are all PR Officers for our nation and who would realize this more than the President.

Nope. I'm not my country's PR officer. I'm a critic, hopefully a constructive critic .. and I'm trying to be a good citizen. Again Musharraf is not doing PR not for his country, perhaps for his book, and perhaps some for Bush ahead of the Congressional elections.

Also, did you read Mushie's manuscripts. Analysts call his book a glorified election manifesto. I'm not surprized.

Mush has called him on it and the US media freaked out too.

Even if I concede that the US media "freaked out", so what buddy? What's the big deal? Did he get President Bush to go on record and clarify American troops will not enter Pakistan?

Nope. Bush still holds the cards on that one. Or else "Richie Armitage will be let loose again".

 

[Thunder]

We're already in the stone age, bombing pakistan would make no difference, as for musharraf being a qadiani, only muslims can rule pakistan because of the majority, if musharrsfd isnt muslim, he can't be the president.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Mushy isn't Qadiani but his PA Tariq Aziz is a qadiani.

 

[Cheetah786]

what are your sources cheeta? any link that says that musharraf is not Ahemadi.. need it to counter pak bashing on some extremist forum

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/islam-deobandi.htm

 

[Cheetah786]

Other people might not have the courage to answer you straight but i will.

Yes it does matter.....according to the constitution of Pakistan.....only muslims can occupy the office of president and prime minster.

Ahmadis are declared Kafir ( non muslims ) by the constitution of Pakistan and are treated as a non muslim minority....all papers issued to them are in that capacity...and all Papers to muslims are issued after they specifically accept Ahmadis as Kafir.

If either of them are married to Kafir ( ahmadi ) then they themselves are kafir ( you can ask any alim moderate or extremist since Quran forbids marrying kafir )....which would mean they are no longer eligible to hold offices of President and Prime minster.

But mushi like majority of muslims of Pakistan is Sunni--following sunni fiqh hanafia ( mushy daughter married shia )........Shaukat Aziz too is sunni fiqh hanafia........their oaths specifically condemn ahmadis as kafir and condemn head of Ahmadeya as imposter......now if they were ahmadis why would they take that oath ( btw there is no choice of oaths )......and i have heard/seen shaukat aziz specifically refuting this allegation on him...that he was ahmadi ( this happened around the time he was being crowned PM ).

Is that the constitution Zia made....
ahmedies decleared un muslims ...............last i checked god kept the decision of judgement to himself
ask any alim moderate or extremist.....................shouldnet we ask them first were did they get educted how they call them self all these nicks and asking an extremist he aint educated he is brain washed u cannot ask some one a question about Islam when they dont have a Brain to think for them self.:wall: ....

 

[Awesome]

Wait a sec. Let's say Person 1 threatens to beat up Person 2. Person 2 then makes a statement to the press that Person 1 will not be able to beat up Person 2.

How is this a gain for Person 2? If Person 2 doesn't get beaten up, he has just avoided a loss. Avoiding unnecessary losses are not gains. If you think it is a gain, then you have too low an expectation from Person 2.

Keeping unwanted foreign troops off the nationland is not something to find desirable?

What does one do as a defensive force? He defended our territory.

Nope. I'm not my country's PR officer. I'm a critic, hopefully a constructive critic .. and I'm trying to be a good citizen. Again Musharraf is not doing PR not for his country, perhaps for his book, and perhaps some for Bush ahead of the Congressional elections.

So how was the GW Uni address talking about Pakistan's achievement in the past few years promotion of his book? His book would focus on his presidency. His Presidency are the years of Pakistan's recent gains. They would intermingle.

Is Mushy a bad man for it?

Also, did you read Mushie's manuscripts. Analysts call his book a glorified election manifesto. I'm not surprized.

Let them. Analysts critique books nowadays?

Even if I concede that the US media "freaked out", so what buddy? What's the big deal? Did he get President Bush to go on record and clarify American troops will not enter Pakistan?

Hmmm the debate wasn't on that. He can't tell Mushy that he'd bomb us to the stone age now.

Nope. Bush still holds the cards on that one. Or else "Richie Armitage will be let loose again".

We'll say no.

Let's take this offtopic conversation of ours to the relevant threads...

 

[Skeptic786]

Is that the constitution Zia made....
ahmedies decleared un muslims ...............last i checked god kept the decision of judgement to himself
ask any alim moderate or extremist.....................shouldnet we ask them first were did they get educted how they call them self all these nicks and asking an extremist he aint educated he is brain washed u cannot ask some one a question about Islam when they dont have a Brain to think for them self.:wall: ....

This was not the constitution made by Zia......but is the only constitution to which all parties of Pakistan both secular and islamic agreed to.....no islamic scholar of any party affiliation or outside party politics have ever questioned that decision. The constitution was unanonmously passed by the both houses of Parliament under the guidance of the Z A Bhutto ( Pakistan peoples Party founder and father of Benazir....in 1973.

Zia came to power in 1978 and had nothing to do with Ahmadis being declared non muslim/Kafir in the constitution of Pakistan back in 1973 when Zia was not in any position of power.

 

[Cheetah786]

i beg your parden sir but i do suggest u do a little digging .constitution was ammended a lot by Mr ZIA

 

[Skeptic786]

i beg your parden sir but i do suggest u do a little digging .constitution was ammended a lot by Mr ZIA

the consitution was amended by Zia for the same reason Mushy has done so...to prolong and legalise his tenure and coup.

However The declaration of Ahmadis made in the constitution of 1973 is found in the original one and was passed in 1973 as i mentioned under the Guidance of Z A Bhutto of PPP....and to which all other parties, ulema both political and non political consented to.

The issue of declaring Qadianis/Ahmadis goes back to 1950s when there were bloody riots in Lahore....asking for them to be declared Kafir.......however Ahmadis which were in higher offices obstructed the path of passing a constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan....since they knew at the very first instance of such legal document there going to be declared non muslim i.e. Kafir.... This is exactly what happened when country's first and till date only constitution was passed in 1973.
If you donot want to believe me....visit any Ahmadiya sources on the net or ask any Ahmadiya elder as to under whose government were Ahmadis declared Kafir....they will all tell you....it was Z A Bhutto ( liberal PPP founder and father of Benazir Bhutto ).

 

[A.Rahman]

Beside that, the Ahmadiyya group has many religious practices and beliefs that are totally contradictory and blasphemous to Islam.

In addition, the Ahmadiya’s connection to the British Colonial power (before Indian and Pakistani independence) and until now, is well documented with the intent to destroy the true message of Islam. (The British were instrumental in creating and financing several such movements as Islamic Sects , just to create internecine in-fighting among Muslims in keeping with their divide and rule policy). It doesn't take a lot of discussion with a person who is a Qadiyani to see how far off he/she is from Islam in matters of Ideology and basic beliefs. ---- Some of the blasphemous beliefs of Qadiyanis are:
1. Mirza Ghulam is Rasulullah in place of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sas) of Arabia.
2. The Holy Prophet is NOT the last prophet of God.
3. Mirza Ghulam is better than and superior to the Holy Prophet.
4. The prophethood of Muhammad (sas) is abrogated.
5. Islam of the Holy Prphet Muhammad is the dead religion.
6. Those who do not believe in Mirza Ghulam of Qadiyani as Muhammad Rasulullah are Kafir. Etc.)

 

[Skeptic786]

I know and can prove from sources that Ahmadis themselves consider all non ahmadis as Kafir.....since we refuse to believe in the prophethood of a punjabi person called Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. They say that we muslims who refuse to believe in him are like christians and jews who though believed in earlier prophets remain kafir due to the fact that they refused to believe in Muhammad....similarly mulsims who believe in Muhammad as Prophet but refuse to believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad are kafirs too!.

All those who believe Pakistan government was wrong to declare them kafir legally must make a note that Ahmadis declared muslims kafir long before Pakistan government made any move on them.

 

[thegreensprite]

what are your sources cheeta? any link that says that musharraf is not Ahemadi.. need it to counter pak bashing on some extremist forum

How would you counter extremist forums by proving Musharraf is NOT an Ahmadi?

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

I have heard rumors on the net that Gen. Pervez Musharraf married in a Qadiani family and prime minister Shaukat Aziz, a Qadiani himself..

is it true?

Can anyone confirm it? with authentic sources.

He is actually a Sayyed..so no way he is non sunni or non muslim.