Is Karachi not a part of Sindh?

[Gripen9]

Bro I am non-urdu speaking but I live here in Karachi. Karachi's biggest mistake has been selecting Altaf Hussain as its leader, rest all is part of history now

Ok, you are right. But he is gone now. So what should be done?

 

[El Sidd]

110 messages still.

Bari koi farogh naseem awam ha Karachi ki

 

[The Accountant]

110 messages still.

Bari koi farogh naseem awam ha Karachi ki

thats very harsh comment. You should be ashamed of passing such remarks about more than 10% population of Pakistan.

 

[El Sidd]

thats very harsh comment. You should be ashamed of passing such remarks about more than 10% population of Pakistan.

achaar daal lo 10 percent Zardari population ka.

2 saal se dimagh kha gaye 14 seats 14 seats. kaam nahi kar rahe 14 seats wale to istefa lelo unse.

awein boriat ke topics.

kooch kar jao wahan paani khatam hogaya hai

 

[The Accountant]

achaar daal lo 10 percent Zardari population ka.

2 saal se dimagh kha gaye 14 seats 14 seats. kaam nahi kar rahe 14 seats wale to istefa lelo unse.

awein boriat ke topics.

kooch kar jao wahan paani khatam hogaya hai

If you have nothing at stake then why are you commenting on this thread. You are welcome to leave if you cant feel for problem of Karachi people.

THe issue is the divide between Karachi- Hyderabad and rest of the Sindh. No matter who we vote the CM Sindh will be from the other rural Sindh and they have no interest in developing and investing in Karachi

 

[El Sidd]

If you have nothing at stake then why are you commenting on this thread. You are welcome to leave if you cant feel for problem of Karachi people.

THe issue is the divide between Karachi- Hyderabad and rest of the Sindh. No matter who we vote the CM Sindh will be from the other rural Sindh and they have no interest in developing and investing in Karachi

As much as you would want me to forgo Karachi, you should atleast know that identity is tied to place of Birth.

I was born in Karachi and lived there for 25 years.

The city needs to be de-populated and must be envisioned anew.

So just agree with Sindh government when they say Karachi is a city in Balochistan

 

[The Accountant]

As much as you would want me to forgo Karachi, you should atleast know that identity is tied to place of Birth.

I was born in Karachi and lived there for 25 years.

The city needs to be de-populated and must be envisioned anew.

So just agree with Sindh government when they say Karachi is a city in Balochistan

lolzzz, your previous name of retired troll suits you more . Except it should be active troll.

 

[El Sidd]

lolzzz, your previous name of retired troll suits you more . Except it should be active troll.

lo ab sach bolo to sabko mirchen lagti hain

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

Karachiites will never vote for following parties ever again:

1. PTI (got full support from Karachi 2013, 2018 - PM doesnt even visit or talk about Karachi)

2. MQM (obvious reasons, sellouts)

3. PPP (feudal mindset thugs, mafia and daaku)

---

Karachiites are not asking much, just basic needs.

1. Abolish Quota system, bring meritocracy

2. Give power to local body governments, direct funds from federal

3. Redo the Census to include 22 million population.

3.1 Add more seats from Karachi in Sindh assembly according to city's real population.

4. -----

5. Remove the cancer called PPP from Government offices in Karachi

6. The rural population (Larkana,Sukkur etc.) vote should not decide the fate of Karachiites in elections.

7. Karachi urban sindh domicile must have same power and benefits as the ones in Punjab

 

[krash]

He is not talking about separation, he is talking about making Karachi a Federally Administered Territory.

He was implying that Sindhis are "Ghadar" because Bilawal threatened the separation of the State. Just reminding him that Altaf said the exact same thing, should we consider Urdu speakers Ghadar as well? Obviously not.

He can't be allowed to commit the exact same sin while blaming it on the rest and then act innocent.

And we karachities showed him the way. Can sindhi do the same?

They should. I am not arguing whether the election of PPP, PMLN, MQM or any other party, including PTI, is rightful or not. I know them all to be the exact same. Read my above comment for @Blacklight.

Are all Sindhis or even all PPP supporters painted with the label of a traitor like Urdu speakers are, regardless of whether they follow MQM or not?

Frankly and personally speaking, growing up in Punjab, I have never heard anyone terming Urdu speakers or any other ethnic group as traitors. Whoever does say it is obviously an ethnically charged hate monger who should not be given any breathing space. As should be done with anyone who says it about any group of Pakistanis.

Regardless, my point was as explained to @Blacklight above.

You have to admit the double standards man. Jahan Karachi ke haq ki baat ki, beech mein Altaf Hussain aur MQM ko le aatay ho humein chup karanay ke liye. Don't think we don't understand the double standards.

That is a deliberately dishonest statement. I'll clear it one last time. I never commented on "Karachi's haq". I actually don't get to since Karachiites know what's better for their city and they can strive for it as long as they remain within the law, as is their right. I explicitly stated this before in one of my posts.

My posts are directly related to you and a few other members here blaming the ruin of Karachi on Punjabis and the rest of Pakistan. My counterargument was that Karachi's ruin is primarily the doing of Karachi's own inhabitants, not just Urdu speakers but all of them. And that Karachiites and Urdu speakers should climb out of these dishonest claims and stop spreading ethnic hatred. Karachi was primarily ruined by MQM, Karachi elected MQM (It does not matter if you personally ever voted for MQM or not), Karachi did not do anything to stop MQM, Karachi does not get to blame the rest of Pakistan for it.

You then implied that the federal state indulged in extra judicial killings in the 90s so MQM was within its rights to do what it did. This is obviously a foolish argument since there is literally no excuse or justification for MQM's actions, no matter what the federal government did.

Then you started claiming that I somehow did not want Karachi to have its "Haq" in hopes of diverting the entire argument. I won't allow it.

For some reason you also keep complaining that people bring in MQM whenever you blame the rest of Pakistan for what MQM did under the patronage of Karachiites for decades................

Karachi people BURIED MQM now....It is PAST now...Why is it so hard for you to understand?

MQM did a lot of bad things but in grand scheme of things....MQM is a little ant compared to juggernauts like PPP and PML-N

For Pakistan as a whole? Yes of course. However, IMO, only due to a lack of opportunity on MQM's part.

For Karachi alone? Not even close. MQM's activities were more akin to a terrorist organisation than a political party.

MQM waley 10 rs khatey the.....PPP aur PML-N waley AB BHI poora poora khazana SAAF kar rahe hain.[/QUOTE]

You clearly did not understand what was being discussed or said. Read through it again.

why do you think that Armed gangs turned Political parties came to exists ? And who supported or corner the people of Karachi from Asking for their rights to forces fully take it from the state ? I am sure no one dliberately wants to send their sons with Guns to hold some morche when they have to live on Quota and prove their loyalty to every one, while the rest of sons of soils breaks the country , sold it and killed or become the reason of killing far far more Pakistanis than the those armed Gangs .

I'm sorry but that is text book false dichotomy and red herring rolled into one.

Firstly, under no circumstances does anyone anywhere in the world has any right whatsoever to pickup arms against the legitimate rule of the state, the government, its people, or law. There is only one verdict under law if anyone anywhere in the world does so. You have been given the avenues to fight for your rights under Pakistani law, as defunct as it may be. This excuse just does not fly. I know you know this. Disappointed that you'd act ignorant to it just for your personal ethno-linguistic politics. Or would you afford the same excuse to BLA? TTP? PTM? Mukti Bahini? I could've just as easily copy pasted one of your own posts against PTM here.

Secondly, those gangs did nothing for the rights of Karachiites. Did extort you, kill you, steal from you, make your lives miserable, hold you and your city hostage. Didn't think twice before joining the same government coalitions that they were your "champions" against. This was no righteous fight against some great evil as you are trying to make it out to be. You messed up, got drawn into ethno-linguistic politics to your own detriment. Now you try to blame that on the others as well. Instead, own up to it and bring the country out of this ethno jahalat.

Oh really. When did Muhajirs blame Pakistan when they were attacked in 1965 for supporting Fatima Jinnah, when their houses were burned in Lalukhet by Ayub Khan's goons? They didn't call themselves Muhajirs, they were hardcore Pakistanis.

How does that have anything to do with my post or argument? I'd advise against it, I don't fall for it as easily. Don't blame you though, you have little else to stand on. MQM did ruin Karachi, Karachi did keep MQM in power. Debate that, if you will.

What Ayub did in 1965 not only has nothing to do with Karachi's current state, as you said yourself "Jab tak Karachi capital tha, mulk sahi chal raha tha", it was also not directed only towards Urdu speakers and/or Karachiites.

And in 1971 when the feudals of Punjab and Sindh were busy in their power games, it was the Muhajir Biharis who were risking their life trying to save Pakistan.

Another infantile claim produced out of thin air. The Bangali qualms, according to them at least, stemmed from their less than appropriate handling by the West Pakistani establishment and bureaucracy since the time of Partition. Which, as you've put before yourself on this very forum, was the time Urdu speakers were running the country better than it has ever been run.

I will call you out every single time you try to inflame ethnic hatred here. As is with any kind of hatred, it only satisfies your own insecurities. Does not do much to help your argument.

You know squat $hit about the issue.

Don't I? Apparently, I know enough to make you dance all over the place trying to evade the actual argument. Answer it. Flame baiting is futile.

Your finger will always find a target in Urdu speakers.

Your finger is the one doing the pointing. I've only bent it back towards you.

You blamed the others for your own doing. Time to self reflect and take some ownership. You are exactly that which you claim to despise, such is the result of every single ethno-nationalist. Quite ironic.

@PaklovesTurkiye has been saying throughout the thread that we have buried MQM.

And I am proud of Karachi for that. Karachi has set an example which I now pray the rest of Pakistan will follow as well.

However, under no circumstance does this allow Karachiites to blame their city's ruin on the rest of Pakistan when it was primarily MQM which ruined Karachi with Karachi's support. You people keep trying to side step this simple fact by bringing matters which have nothing to do with the argument whatsoever. It's amusing.

What is still ruining Karachi? There we have no disagreement. It is the PPP's hold on the province.

But the fact is you are not willing to listen. And you have extreme double standards with regards to the people of Karachi.

Sure. Everyone who calls out your nonsense has double standards and is out to get you. It is always the other.

If you want to blame the whole Muhajir community for Altaf Hussain,

"Karachiites" not "Muhajir". The exact same way you have rightly blamed Sindhis for keeping PPP and the Punjabis for keeping PMLN in power. It works both ways, bud. Besides, I can't really blame Multanis for bringing and keeping Altaf Hussain in power.

then give us Muhajirs credit for Pervez Musharraf

Was Musharraf brought to power by "Muhajir" support? If so, do you willingly admit bringing a usurper into power through an act which, under the Pakistani constitution, is tantamount to treason?

Please stop posting nonsense. You are wasting both our time.

who was about to capture Kargil until Nawaz Sharif buckled under US pressure.

No he wasn't. As traitorous as Nawaz is, Kargil was an idiotic blunder and a lost opportunity. There's plenty about it on this very forum, go through it. Won't let you derail the discussion.

And if you can't blame every Punjabi who supports N league, don't you dare call Urdu speakers separatists or traitors.

Did I? Stop trying to dilute my argument.

You blamed everyone, including all Punjabis, for what has happened to Karachi. Yet claim innocence for Karachi electing MQM for decades.

I, personally, wholly blame every single Pakistani for playing right into the hands of PMLN, PPP, MQM, JUI, ANP and now PTI. Fools, the lot of us. Except for the Gilgit Baltistanis, of course. They still have no say in it.

Stop bullshitting. Bilawal never threatened, he only warned of the consequences of separating a province from its capital.

Stop giving excuses for that two-bit politician. He clearly meant it as a threat. Any self-respecting nation would have thrown him out to task after those comments.

That would be a stop gap measure. The rot is too deep, Federal depts are needed desperately for a deep clean.

The centre is as corrupt as the provinces. You have the exact same culprits sitting there. Look at the regions historically under federal control.

Is not Karachi's salvation, and the rest of the country's, in the dissolution of power to a micro scale? Would save Multan from Lahore, Hazara from Khyber and Karachi from Sindh.

Nai nai pilots and other successful Karachi wale somehow become Pakistani's , and bad and MQM'ers are inherently traitors , its like that Misaal Meetha Meetha hash hash karwaa karwaa tho tho ...

Is there an argument there somewhere? Are you saying that MQM should not be called a traitorous party because Karachi has produced patriots? Or are you saying that patriots from Karachi should not be celebrated because MQM is called a traitorous party? Sure doesn't stop you from celebrating Karnal Sher Khan while criticising the likes of PTM.

How can you even come up with such a statement?

 

[The Accountant]

Karachiites will never vote for following parties ever again:

1. PTI (got full support from Karachi 2013, 2018 - PM doesnt even visit or talk about Karachi)

2. MQM (obvious reasons, sellouts)

3. PPP (feudal mindset thugs, mafia and daaku)

---

Karachiites are not asking much, just basic needs.

1. Abolish Quota system, bring meritocracy

2. Give power to local body governments, direct funds from federal

3. Redo the Census to include 22 million population.

3.1 Add more seats from Karachi in Sindh assembly according to city's real population.

4. Give equal chance to Karachiites to serve in armed forces to show their love for homeland.

5. Remove the cancer called PPP from Government offices in Karachi

6. The rural population (Larkana,Sukkur etc.) vote should not decide the fate of Karachiites in elections.

7. Karachi urban sindh domicile must have same power and benefits as the ones in Punjab

but the question is then whom will vote?

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Jab tak Karachi capital tha, mulk sahi chal raha tha.



Sometimes it feels like it. Allah tawakkal pe chal raha hai Karachi ya phir Karachiites ki naikiyon pe.

Capital Lahore hona chahiyay tha.

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

Unfortunate to see the discriminatory bias from the people of my country.

Let me clarify, Karachi is not asking for special treatment. Just basic rights that I highlighted above.

 

[El Sidd]

He was implying that Sindhis are "Ghadar" because Bilawal threatened the separation of the State. Just reminding him that Altaf said the exact same thing, should we consider Urdu speakers Ghadar as well? Obviously not.

He can't be allowed to commit the exact same sin while blaming it on the rest and then act innocent.



I'm actually illiterate on the matter. I do, however, understand and acknowledge the problem Karachi faces with the PPP. They are obviously in the right.



They should. I am not arguing whether the election of PPP, PMLN, MQM or any other party, including PTI, is rightful or not. I know them all to be the exact same. Read my above comment for @Blacklight.



Frankly and personally speaking, growing up in Punjab, I have never heard anyone terming Urdu speakers or any other ethnic group as traitors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are more Urdu speakers living in Punjab than in Karachi? Have you heard them complain about this? I had never heard of the "M" word until I heard it in the context of Urdu speakers in Karachi. Whoever does say it is obviously an ethnically charged hate monger who should not be given any breathing space. As should be done with anyone who says it about any group of Pakistanis.

Regardless, my point was as explained to @Blacklight above.



That is a deliberately dishonest statement. I'll clear it one last time. I never commented on "Karachi's haq". I actually don't get to since Karachiites know what's better for their city and they can strive for it as long as they remain within the law, as is their right. I explicitly stated this before in one of my posts.

My posts are directly related to you and a few other members here blaming the ruin of Karachi on Punjabis and the rest of Pakistan. My counterargument was that Karachi's ruin is primarily the doing of Karachi's own inhabitants, not just Urdu speakers but all of them. And that Karachiites and Urdu speakers should climb out of these dishonest claims and stop spreading ethnic hatred. Karachi was primarily ruined by MQM, Karachi elected MQM (It does not matter if you personally ever voted for MQM or not), Karachi did not do anything to stop MQM, Karachi does not get to blame the rest of Pakistan for it.

You then implied that the federal state indulged in extra judicial killings in the 90s so MQM was within its rights to do what it did. This is obviously a foolish argument since there is literally no excuse or justification for MQM's actions, no matter what the federal government did.

Then you started claiming that I somehow did not want Karachi to have its "Haq" in hopes of diverting the entire argument. I won't allow it.

For some reason you also keep complaining that people bring in MQM whenever you blame the rest of Pakistan for what MQM did under the patronage of Karachiites for decades................



The Navy is the weakest link. Karachi is far more vulnerable than Islamabad, as is evident from 71. While Islamabad might look closer to India's approach it has a natural defensive line with the mountains towards its east. There's a reason India was not able to cross over the LOC in any meaningful manner in any of the conflicts. Did successfully bomb and blockade Karachi.



You clearly did not understand what was being discussed or said. Set your ethnic victim-ism aside and read through it again.



For Pakistan as a whole? Yes of course. IMO, only due to a lack of opportunity on MQM's part.

For Karachi alone? Not even close. MQM's activities were more akin to a terrorist organisation than a political party.



They are all the same. So are their supporters. Including PTI.




I'm sorry but that is text book false dichotomy and red herring rolled into one.

Firstly, under no circumstances does anyone anywhere in the world has any right whatsoever to pickup arms against the legitimate rule of the state, the government, its people, or law. There is only one verdict under law if anyone anywhere in the world does so. You have been given the avenues to fight for your rights under Pakistani law, as defunct as it may be. This excuse just does not fly. I know you know this. Disappointed that you'd act ignorant to it just for your personal ethno-linguistic politics. Or would you afford the same excuse to BLA? TTP? PTM? Mukti Bahini? I could've just as easily copy pasted one of your own posts against PTM here.

Secondly, those gangs did nothing for the rights of Karachiites. Did extort you, kill you, steal from you, make your lives miserable, hold you and your city hostage. Didn't think twice before joining the same government coalitions that they were your "champions" against. This was no righteous fight against some great evil as you are trying to make it out to be. You messed up, got drawn into ethno-linguistic politics to your own detriment. Now you try to blame that on the others as well. Instead, own up to it and bring the country out of this ethno jahalat.



How does that have anything to do with my post or argument? This is another dishonest attempt at diverting the discussion. I'd advise against it, I don't fall for it as easily. Don't blame you though, you have little else to stand on. MQM did ruin Karachi, Karachi did keep MQM in power. Debate that, if you will.

What Ayub did in 1965 not only has nothing to do with Karachi's current state, as you said yourself "Jab tak Karachi capital tha, mulk sahi chal raha tha", it was also not directed only towards Urdu speakers and/or Karachiites.



Another infantile claim produced out of thin air. The Bangali qualms, according to them at least, stemmed from their less than appropriate handling by the West Pakistani establishment and bureaucracy since the time of Partition. Which, as you've put before yourself on this very forum, was the time Urdu speakers were running the country better than it has ever been run.

I will call you out every single time you try to inflame ethnic hatred here. As is with any kind of hatred, it only satisfies your own insecurities. Does not do much to help your argument.



Don't I? Apparently, I know enough to make you dance all over the place trying to evade the actual argument. Answer it. Flame baiting is futile.



Your finger is the one doing the pointing. I've only bent it back towards you.

You blamed the others for your own doing. Time to self reflect and take some ownership. You are exactly that which you claim to despise, such is the result of every single ethno-nationalist. Quite ironic.



As explained before, it is about Karachi's support for MQM, not specifically you.



And I am proud of Karachi for that. Karachi has set an example which I now pray the rest of Pakistan will follow as well.

However, in no universe does this allow Karachiites to blame their city's ruin on the rest of Pakistan when it was primarily MQM which ruined Karachi with Karachi's support. You people keep trying to side step this simple fact by bringing matters which have nothing to do with the argument whatsoever. It's amusing.

What is still ruining Karachi? There we have no disagreement. It is the PPP's hold on the province.



Sure. Everyone who calls out your nonsense has double standards and is out to get you. It is always the other.



"Karachiites" not "Muhajir". The exact same way you have rightly blamed Sindhis for keeping PPP and the Punjabis for keeping PMLN in power. It works both ways, bud. Besides, I can't really blame Multanis for bringing and keeping Altaf Hussain in power.



Was Musharraf brought to power by "Muhajir" support? If so, do you willingly admit bringing a usurper into power through an act which, under the Pakistani constitution, is tantamount to treason?

Please stop posting nonsense. You are wasting both our time.



No he wasn't. As traitorous as Nawaz is, Kargil was an idiotic blunder and a lost opportunity. There's plenty about it on this very forum, go through it.

Stop posting foolish arguments. Won't let you derail the discussion.



Did I? Stop trying to dilute my argument.

You blamed everyone, including all Punjabis, for what has happened to Karachi. Yet claim innocence for Karachi electing MQM for decades.

I, personally, wholly blame every single Pakistani for playing right into the hands of PMLN, PPP, MQM, JUI, ANP and now PTI. Fools, the lot of us. Except for the Gilgit Baltistanis, of course. They still have no say in it.



Stop giving excuses for that two-bit politician. He clearly meant it as a threat. Any self-respecting nation would have thrown him out to task after those comments.



The centre is as corrupt as the provinces. You have the exact same culprits sitting there (Heck, we are the exact same everywhere). Look at the regions historically under federal control. Is not Karachi's salvation, and the rest of the country's, in the dissolution of power to a micro scale? Would save Multan from Lahore, Hazara from Khyber and Karachi from Sindh.



If by Muhajir you mean one who migrated from India after partition then yes he is. If you mean he is an ethnic Urdu speaker then no he is not. Reportedly, he is a Rajput.

That said, I don't think our Urdu Speaking or Karachiite brothers and sisters need anyone or anything to prove their service and/or loyalty to the country. The mere notion is moronic.



Is there an argument there somewhere? Are you saying that MQM should not be called a traitorous party because Karachi has produced patriots? Or are you saying that patriots from Karachi should not be celebrated because MQM is called a traitorous party? Sure doesn't stop you from celebrating Karnal Sher Khan while criticising the likes of PTM.

How can you even come up with such a statement?



CSS, testing, induction, training and system included, is outdated, defunct, useless and unfair. The quota system, even more so. There is a reason it predominantly produces hacks.



Please don't spread this 'by design' political propaganda around. It was created to invoke exactly the feelings you are currently feeling.

Karachi does not generate 50% of the country's income tax. Pakistan does not generate any real amount of income tax at all. Even if Karachi did actually pay 50% of it, it would amount to peanuts. In 2013 only 768,000 people were registered income tax payers in all of Pakistan.

The correct fact is that Karachi accounts for around half of the total collections of the Federal Board of Revenue. The major chunk of these collections is custom duty and sales tax paid on imports at the two ports. Roughly 95% of all foreign trade passes through these two ports in Karachi and all the duties and sales tax on that trade is collected at Karachi i.e. it is being paid by the entire country. Even the guy sitting in Ishkoman pays it at Karachi. Furthermore, the rest is also not all paid by Karachi itself. The entire provinces of Sindh and Balochistan are covered by the five tax units and offices in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukkur and Quetta.

Here is the actual source with the figures,

https://web.archive.org/web/2010092...k/YearBook/2006-2007/FBRyearbook2006-2007.pdf

Please don't fall for these absurd claims, they are meant to create divides.

1 like for an extremely long.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Sindh want Federal to give more power to Sindh but they don't wanna give Power to Karachi City. Shameless Hypocrites.