Is it too difficult?

[saiyan0321]

First of all let me state that I believe that no issue in the world can be solved nor mitigated unless it is brought to light or discussed.

This is why I personally like to about the issues that plague my country no matter how uncomfortable that discussion may be.

I highlighted that Kashmir both Indian and pakistani has been stuck in a state if limbo due to the ineptness of the UN in highlighting a positive solution or a form of local governance where the native population can exhibit its own control, as well to the fault of two powers who have thrown all the gloves off and rather than respecting native choice, have openly announced that such territories are theirs.. Slogans like juggular vein, atoot ang, incomplete partition highlight a open declaration that Kashmir is only going to have two options only. India or Pakistan. A third option is neither respected nor talked about without it becoming a national security issue.


As we come to article.. First of all let me commend the author. To type such a piece in a platform where nationalism and patriotism flows like rivers is an act of courage which must be commended.

Now first of all let me highlight the presence of security officials in such a huge number especially of those that are trained to fight wars and hostile populations will always create a friction and the longevity of those presence will only further inflame the situation.. This is no solution and the heavy handed approach used by security officials is bad enough but the fact that the government supports such actions and the populace at large refuses to condemn them only makes things worse...how can there be silent dissent when nobody is willing to listen to them. Of course they will then pick up the gun. Secondly blaming Pakistan also does not help since many of those that are not satisfied will feel even more disenfranchised...

I think that India should change its approach. Rather than forcing nationalism, making open threats and commending rights violation or its outright denial, a change in policy needs to be enacted.. Talk to those that are protesting. Create a dialogue. This will actually deflate the situation as many will believe that atleast their voice is being heard.

Secondly change the security policy. Localize the security officials even further and provide a lesser heavier hand to control the situation.. Listen to any rights violation and take action. It will go a long way.

Thirdly I believe that the greatest flame that is burning Indian Kashmir and is forcing pakistan to combat governance issues of Pakistan kashmir is the very fact that these areas are in a limbo. The issue of Kashmir must be solved and that is only possible through dialogue. How can a solution come to pass when dialogue is neither being done with Pakistan nor with the protestors?

Fourthly the attitude of social media bhakts must be controlled. Blaming Islam, kashmiri attitude and open threats will only further create a chasm between the Kashmiri's and the rest of india...



Simple fact. Neither you are going anywhere nor Kashmir is going anywhere. Talking is the only solution. Military option won't help against city blocking protests. They never help.

 

[HariPrasad]

An youth of 18/19 might get radicalized, but why a 60 year old man or a PhD holder?

Do you know that Al bagdadi is a doctorate in Islamic studies and most of the ISIS fighters are highly qualified? Inspite of all the efforts and extravagant spending Kashmir and whole hearted effort to win the hearts, any such accommodating effort has always failed. The only solution is that Kashmir should made a Hindu majority state once again. Total Muslim population is a freehand to Mullahs and other radical elements to spread their ideology uninterrupted. If somebody opposes, he / She will be eliminated.

I fully agree that many boys are innocent but what about those who teaches them radicalization right from the childhood. Now a child is brain washed from day one. what would you do about it. Therefor the best way is that they live with majority of Hindus like other Muslims in country so that they have some other model to follow or think. You will never get any solution when Mullahs have the free hand to propagate their radicalism and forign agents doing that for money.

 

[El Sidd]

Yes, it might. But removing one lessens the possibility by 50%.
No. Actually ordinary Indians simply do not care what is going in Kashmir. No public debate, discussion or slightest interest among general public except the popular acceptance that it is an integral part of India no matter what methodology and policy we are implementing there. My apprehension is if we do not take appropriate measure right now, things might snowball into much worse for us in the time to come.

Actually in the last 71 years, it will be very hard for you to point to a time where the general Indian populace had any motivation or social engineering towards solving the Kashmir issue. Kashmir issue is something the Indian state likes keeping in limbo for regional political games.

The integral part of India scam does not work. Even your post is testament to that.

 

[scorpionx]

First of all let me state that I believe that no issue in the world can be solved nor mitigated unless it is brought to light or discussed.

This is why I personally like to about the issues that plague my country no matter how uncomfortable that discussion may be.

I highlighted that Kashmir both Indian and pakistani has been stuck in a state if limbo due to the ineptness of the UN in highlighting a positive solution or a form of local governance where the native population can exhibit its own control, as well to the fault of two powers who have thrown all the gloves off and rather than respecting native choice, have openly announced that such territories are theirs.. Slogans like juggular vein, atoot ang, incomplete partition highlight a open declaration that Kashmir is only going to have two options only. India or Pakistan. A third option is neither respected nor talked about without it becoming a national security issue.


As we come to article.. First of all let me commend the author. To type such a piece in a platform where nationalism and patriotism flows like rivers is an act of courage which must be commended.

Now first of all let me highlight the presence of security officials in such a huge number especially of those that are trained to fight wars and hostile populations will always create a friction and the longevity of those presence will only further inflame the situation.. This is no solution and the heavy handed approach used by security officials is bad enough but the fact that the government supports such actions and the populace at large refuses to condemn them only makes things worse...how can there be silent dissent when nobody is willing to listen to them. Of course they will then pick up the gun. Secondly blaming Pakistan also does not help since many of those that are not satisfied will feel even more disenfranchised...

I think that India should change its approach. Rather than forcing nationalism, making open threats and commending rights violation or its outright denial, a change in policy needs to be enacted.. Talk to those that are protesting. Create a dialogue. This will actually deflate the situation as many will believe that atleast their voice is being heard.

Secondly change the security policy. Localize the security officials even further and provide a lesser heavier hand to control the situation.. Listen to any rights violation and take action. It will go a long way.

Thirdly I believe that the greatest flame that is burning Indian Kashmir and is forcing pakistan to combat governance issues of Pakistan kashmir is the very fact that these areas are in a limbo. The issue of Kashmir must be solved and that is only possible through dialogue. How can a solution come to pass when dialogue is neither being done with Pakistan nor with the protestors?

Fourthly the attitude of social media bhakts must be controlled. Blaming Islam, kashmiri attitude and open threats will only further create a chasm between the Kashmiri's and the rest of india...



Simple fact. Neither you are going anywhere nor Kashmir is going anywhere. Talking is the only solution. Military option won't help against city blocking protests. They never help.

A very very delightful read. Can not thank you enough for sharing your views.

Do you know that Al bagdadi is a doctorate in Islamic studies and most of the ISIS fighters are highly qualified? Inspite of all the efforts and extravagant spending Kashmir and whole hearted effort to win the hearts, any such accommodating effort has always failed. The only solution is that Kashmir should made a Hindu majority state once again. Total Muslim population is a freehand to Mullahs and other radical elements to spread their ideology uninterrupted. If somebody opposes, he / She will be eliminated.

I fully agree that many boys are innocent but what about those who teaches them radicalization right from the childhood. Now a child is brain washed from day one. what would you do about it. Therefor the best way is that they live with majority of Hindus like other Muslims in country so that they have some other model to follow or think. You will never get any solution when Mullahs have the free hand to propagate their radicalism and forign agents doing that for money.

In response to your outright bracketing Kashmiri militancy with radicalization, let me tell you few simple facts. Not a single influential leader in the valley have so far endorsed Salafi or Wahabism. Geelani was perhaps the first among them to denounce Al Queda and ISIS. The words of Geelani, Mirwaiz or Yasin Malik carry much weight in the valley than anyone else. Their public rejection of Islamic fundamentalism suggest a simple thing: It is not a popular idea. How can we forget, Zakir Musa once threatened to behead Hurriyat leaders? This is because popular Kashmiri resistance is a more political one, rather than religious. So, in my opinion outright generalizing Kashmiri civil unrest as a consequence of Islamic fundamentalism is utterly naïve and self defeating.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/anal...e-out-to-be/story-K8XOkAmL8zBtQuKHVxpVxL.html

@HariPrasad There goes your theory of Islamic radicalization of Kashmiri youths.

 

[HariPrasad]

Their public rejection of Islamic fundamentalism suggest a simple thing: It is not a popular idea. How can we forget, Zakir Musa once threatened to behead Hurriyat leaders? This is because popular Kashmiri resistance is a more political one, rather than religious.

You are really a funny man. If it is not religious than why 5 lakh Hindus were cleansed from Valley. What people say on TV is different from what they support. If the Kashmir struggle is simply political, they should ask kashmiri boys not to take guns in hand.

So, before outright generalizing Kashmiri civil unrest as a consequence of Islamic fundamentalism is utterly naïve and self defeating.

They simply cheated people by saying that the struggle is for kashmiriyat but they kicked Hindus out of valley. If the struggle was political than why Hindus were kicke out. They same guys opposes the resettlment of Hindus back in valley. Read the twits of so called youth who have taken gun in there hands. They clearly say that their struggle is for caliphate.

I know many pseudo secular defend these radical by saying that they are just misguided youth, Kashmir struggle is just political etc. However , those who have picked up guns say that they do this for Caliphate,

 

[Sam.]

A very very delightful read. Can not thank you enough for sharing your views.



In response to your outright bracketing Kashmiri militancy with radicalization, let me tell you few simple facts. Not a single influential leader in the valley have so far endorsed Salafi or Wahabism. Geelani was perhaps the first among them to denounce Al Queda and ISIS. The words of Geelani, Mirwaiz or Yasin Malik carry much weight in the valley than anyone else. Their public rejection of Islamic fundamentalism suggest a simple thing: It is not a popular idea. How can we forget, Zakir Musa once threatened to behead Hurriyat leaders? This is because popular Kashmiri resistance is a more political one, rather than religious. So, in my opinion outright generalizing Kashmiri civil unrest as a consequence of Islamic fundamentalism is utterly naïve and self defeating.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/anal...e-out-to-be/story-K8XOkAmL8zBtQuKHVxpVxL.html

@HariPrasad There goes your theory of Islamic radicalization of Kashmiri youths.

Threat is there and growing so don't count it negligible. If the Kashmir is solved then Punjab is next so capital will never allow it as it will not remain capital if there is no state. Recent Punjab card by Pakistanis recently is testimony and assure that ideology. Knowingly or unknowingly it gave a great victory to some people in capital. Chinese approach is talked in detail and policy are being formed.

Religion is big part of it as it is the sole reason of a country claiming Kashmir or their own existence being questioned. You can not deny it neither ignore it.

 

[HariPrasad]

Actually in the last 71 years, it will be very hard for you to point to a time where the general Indian populace had any motivation or social engineering towards solving the Kashmir issue. Kashmir issue is something the Indian state likes keeping in limbo for regional political games.

The integral part of India scam does not work. Even your post is testament to that.

This happens everywhere where the Muslims are in Majority. Kashmir propblem is not at all a genuine problem. The issue is just this. Since Muslims have become majority, they should eliminate others in first stage (Which they did by cleansing of Hindu Minority) and than demand a separate state. They are just doing it. What they does is no different from Muslims in other parts of world are doing. You can be a respectable guys by talking goody goody things but that doesn.t solve problem unfortunately. They reality must be accepted.Acceptance of reality is the first step towards solution.

 

[scorpionx]

You are really a funny man. If it is not religious than why 5 lakh Hindus were cleansed from Valley. What people say on TV is different from what they support. If the Kashmir struggle is simply political, they should ask kashmiri boys not to take guns in hand.


They simply cheated people by saying that the struggle is for kashmiriyat but they kicked Hindus out of valley. If the struggle was political than why Hindus were kicke out. They same guys opposes the resettlment of Hindus back in valley. Read the twits of so called youth who have taken gun in there hands. They clearly say that their struggle is for caliphate.

I know many pseudo secular defend these radical by saying that they are just misguided youth, Kashmir struggle is just political etc. However , those who have picked up guns say that they do this for Caliphate,

You are simply evading my points by bringing 1989 into 2019. A serving IPS in Kashmir is telling recent young recruits are not radicalized, but you will just simply avoid that observation and cling on '89 to support your theory.

 

[HariPrasad]

Kashmir is telling recent young recruits are not radicalized,

Isn't is contradictory in terms. They takes gun but they are not radicalized. I am not avoiding any problem but in your long lecture, you forgot to mention Religious cleansing of 5 lakh Hindus from valley and their genocide. I know it is not convenient for people like you to accept that Hindus were cleansed after worst persecution of Hindu because it is against your politically correct goody goody story. Answer my question. Why 5 lakh Hindus were cleansed from kashmir on religious ground if the movement is not religious one. do not try to find solution of issue by ignoring the core of problem.

 

[El Sidd]

This happens everywhere where the Muslims are in Majority. Kashmir propblem is not at all a genuine problem. The issue is just this. Since Muslims have become majority, they should eliminate others in first stage (Which they did by cleansing of Hindu Minority) and than demand a separate state. They are just doing it. What they does is no different from Muslims in other parts of world are doing. You can be a respectable guys by talking goody goody things but that doesn.t solve problem unfortunately. They reality must be accepted.Acceptance of reality is the first step towards solution.

Prasad Sahab you do realize that Muslims were never in majority in India yet were considered as their rulers. When Muslims are in majority they usually fight among each other rather than fight a third party.

 

[HariPrasad]

When Muslims are in majority they usually fight among each other rather than fight a third party.

This is true sir but it starts after finishing off others. You know that we do not have to go too far to see the examples.

 

[El Sidd]

This is true sir but it starts after finishing off others. You know that we do not have to go too far to see the examples.

I can understand Prasad but as i said if this was as you point it out to be. Why would Muslims who had control of the region leave any other alive?

Population growth statistics actually negate this point.

Kashmir is a political issue Prasad, it is in best interest for both of us that it remains political and not religious. Otherwise it will be a mess bigger than it is now.

 

[HariPrasad]

Population growth statistics actually negate this point.

Why are you talking of growth and not absolute number as the percentage of population and how it diminished twenty time in last 7 decades?

Kashmir is a political issue Prasad, it is in best interest for both of us that it remains political and not religious. Otherwise it will be a mess bigger than it is now.

If Kashmir is a political issue than why 5 lakh Pundits were genocides, raped and cleansed from kashmir on religious ground. You finish off a religious minority and than say that issue is just political.

The fact of the matter is this. Sir, you and me both know what is truth. I just say what I have seen and realized and you are trying to hide it under various deceptions using your argumentative skills.

 

[scorpionx]

Isn't is contradictory in terms. They takes gun but they are not radicalized. I am not avoiding any problem but in your long lecture, you forgot to mention Religious cleansing of 5 lakh Hindus from valley and their genocide. I know it is not convenient for people like you to accept that Hindus were cleansed after worst persecution of Hindu because it is against your politically correct goody goody story. Answer my question. Why 5 lakh Hindus were cleansed from kashmir on religious ground if the movement is not religious one. do not try to find solution of issue by ignoring the core of problem.

The only convenience 'people like me' take is not to dwell on blanket black and white extremes which clearly is not your choice. I can argue with you with strong evidence that the exodus of Pandits were for anything but extreme radicalism in the valley. But I know, at the end of the day you will come back to the same point again with the abuses so usual by your kinds. So, I will rest my case here.

 

[El Sidd]

Why are you talking of growth and not absolute number as the percentage of population and how it diminished twenty time in last 7 decades?

Percentile wise i think it is no where near 20 but i would like to see the stats which you are seeing because i do not have them to make a concrete opinion on this.

If Kashmir is a political issue than why 5 lakh Pundits were genocides, raped and cleansed from kashmir on religious ground. You finish off a religious minority and than say that issue is just political.

The fact of the matter is this. Sir, you and me both know what is truth. I just say what I have seen and realized and you are trying to hide it under various deceptions using your argumentative skills.

The Pandit genocide was actually encouraged by the Indian state due to its negligence and political rhetoric in the aftermath. You should be asking this question to those who are decision makers in IoK.

I can only say Prasad for the betterment of the region. Do not make it a religious issue. Let it remain political along the lines of Kashmir being a princely state and ethnically different from others in the region.