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Is it time for U.S. to dump Saudi Arabia?

Daneshmand

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Is it time for the United States to dump Saudi Arabia? - The Express Tribune

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After the recent execution of Shiite cleric Nimr al-Nimr by Saudi Arabia, the Middle East once again risks devolving into sectarian chaos. A mob torched the Saudi Embassy in Tehran, prompting Saudi Arabia and a number of its Sunni allies to break diplomatic relations with Iran.

In response to the unfolding chaos, the Wall Street Journal responded by asking “Who Lost the Saudis?” - fretting that the lack of support from the United States could lead to the overthrow of the Saudi regime. This is a provocative query, reminiscent of the “Who Lost China?” attacks against President Harry Truman after the Communist takeover of mainland China in 1949. But it’s the wrong question. Rather than wondering if Washington’s support for Riyadh is sufficient, American policymakers should instead ask themselves the following question: Is it time for the United States to dump Saudi Arabia?

The moral case for the United States to question its close relationship with Saudi Arabia is clear. Saudi Arabia is governed by the House of Saud, an authoritarian monarchy that does not tolerate dissent, and the country consistently ranks among the “worst of the worst” countries in democracy watchdog Freedom House’s annual survey of political and civil rights.

Saudi Arabia follows the ultra-conservative Wahhabi strain of Sunni Islam, and the public practice of any religion other than Islam is prohibited. Its legal system is governed by Sharia law, and a 2015 study from Middle East Eye noted that Saudi Arabia and Islamic State prescribed near-identical punishments, such as amputation and stoning for similar crimes. The government is also renowned for carrying out public executions after trials that Amnesty International condemns as “grossly unfair”; Amnesty describes the Saudi “justice system” as “riddled with holes. “

Given the two countries’ divergent values, the U.S.-Saudi alliance relies almost entirely on overlapping economic and national security interests. The United States long relied on Saudi Arabia as an oil supplier, a steadfast beacon of opposition to communism and a huge buyer of American arms. The Saudis, meanwhile, depend on the United States to protect their security.

Despite these long-standing ties, Saudi Arabia now harms American national interests as much as it helps them.

First, the Saudis and the United States diverge over American policy toward Iran. Saudi Arabia sees itself locked in a sectarian and geopolitical struggle with Iran for Middle East supremacy. Riyadh is concerned the deal that lifted sanctions against Iran in exchange for Tehran dismantling it’s nuclear infrastructure will empower Iran to pursue a more aggressive foreign policy in the region. Riyadh also fears abandonment by Washington, and worries the nuclear deal is only the first step in a process that could lead to its replacement by Iran as the United States’ primary Persian Gulf ally.

President Barack Obama, by contrast, describes the nuclear agreement with Iran as “a very good deal” that “achieves one of our most critical security objectives.” While no indication exists that the United States seeks to replace Saudi Arabia with Iran, it makes sense for Washington to explore other areas where American and Iranian interests may overlap. As the United States and Iran continue to feel each other out, we can expect tensions between Washington and Riyadh to grow.

Second, Saudi Arabia executed al-Nimr despite concerns expressed by the United States that doing so could damage hopes for peace in Syria. Ending the Syrian war remains a priority for the United States, since Washington hopes a Syrian settlement will lead all parties to unite against Islamic State.

Saudi Arabia and Iran support opposing sides in Syria’s civil war, and the prospects for peace depend significantly on cooperation from both countries. With the two countries now at each others’ throats due to the Saudis’ execution of al-Nimr, the Obama administration believes Saudi-Iranian tensions could
“blow up” Washington’s objectives in Syria.

Third, thanks to the shale oil boom in the United States, American dependence on Saudi oil has dropped dramatically. According to a Citibank report, by 2020 the United States may produce so much domestic oil that it would become a net exporter, completely freeing itself from any reliance on Persian Gulf imports. Moreover, the Saudis also rely on the American market. They and many other OPEC members produce what’s called “heavy sour” crude, and the U.S. refinery system is the most attractive market for this type of petroleum. As the United States reduces imports, the Saudis must scramble to find other markets such as China. Unfortunately for Riyadh - as the Russians can attest - the Chinese give no quarter when holding the upper hand in negotiations.

The Saudis understand the consequences of the United States’ reduced reliance on imported oil. To retain market share, the Saudis launched an assault on American shale oil producers, hoping to drive them out of business by flooding the market with Saudi oil. The Saudis hope this leads oil prices to recover, but in the meantime much of the American shale oil industry could face bankruptcy. While cheap oil is good for American consumers, at a certain point the downside for the United States’ economy may outweigh the upsides. Of course, if the United States regains a greater dependence on foreign oil, the Saudis will be the ones to benefit.

Finally - and most importantly - the United States must accept the fact that Saudi Arabia is a major contributor to worldwide Islamic extremism. Washington policymakers clearly understand this. In a leaked Wikileaks cable, former Secretary of State - and now presidential aspirant - Hillary Clinton stated “donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.”

In a 2014 speech at Harvard, Vice President Joseph Biden called out Saudi Arabia and others for contributing to the rise of Islamic State, saying “those allies’ policies wound up helping to arm and build allies of al Qaeda and eventually the terrorist Islamic State.”

In a highly unusual public rebuke in December, Germany’s vice-chancellor Sigmar Gabriel accused the Saudis of funding extremism in the West. “Wahhabi mosques all over the world are financed by Saudi Arabia. Many Islamists who are a threat to public safety come from these communities in Germany. We have to make clear to the Saudis that the time of looking away is over,” Gabriel said.

Saudi Arabia denies funding extremism, and in 2014 called claims it supported Islamic State “false allegations” and a “malicious falsehood.” Moreover, the Saudi Ambassador to the United Kingdom recently posted a letter charging critics of playing the “blame game” and called the accusations “an insult to our government, our people, and our faith.”

Even so, Gabriel is right - and it’s high time Washington policymakers take a good look at the long-term future of the American-Saudi relationship.
 
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It is the single most important thing, which can bring peace to the world specially in Muslim lands.

The blind US support for Saudi Arabia has cost the world a fortune in money and blood.

It is time for US to stop propping up a family business.
 
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May be it is the single most important thing but since the Saudis have oil and money US will not leave them alone.
 
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May be it is the single most important thing but since the Saudis have oil and money US will not leave them alone.

The money and oil side of equation is highly exaggerated. With new technologies and oil finds, the world is not dependent on Saudi oil as it was 40 years ago. US itself is now pretty much independent from foreign oil. Even if Saudi oil is taken off the market today that would be just about the loss of 11% of the total world production. The world can live by without Saudi oil.

The question is if Saudis can live without selling oil: Welcome to AUSTERITY Saudi Arabia: Crashing oil prices sends economy into meltdown

Saudis are already going bankrupt.

It is time for US to come to its senses and stop the bloodshed.
 
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The money and oil side of equation is highly exaggerated. With new technologies and oil finds, the world is not dependent on Saudi oil as it was 40 years ago. US itself is now pretty much independent from foreign oil. Even if Saudi oil is taken off the market today that would be just about the loss of 11% of the total world production. The world can live by without Saudi oil.

The question is if Saudis can live without selling oil: Welcome to AUSTERITY Saudi Arabia: Crashing oil prices sends economy into meltdown

Saudis are already going bankrupt.

It is time for US to comes to its senses and stop the bloodshed.
These figures are not actual, last ten years working in oil and gas field (UAE) brother reality is bit different KSA have the ability to crush the market and control the prices believe me and US is quite dependent on Saudi oil, all of their military expeditions dependent on Saudi oil. Big game changer is Iran, if all the sanctions lifted on oil trade Saudis will lose its dominance.
 
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These figures are not actual, last ten years working in oil and gas field (UAE) brother reality is bit different KSA have the ability to crush the market and control the prices believe me and US is quite dependent on Saudi oil, all of their military expeditions dependent on Saudi oil. Big game changer is Iran, if all the sanctions lifted on oil trade Saudis will lose its dominance.

The figures are from IMF and World Bank, they are as real as figures can get in real world.

Saudi Arabia is fast depleting its savings. At the current rate, they would be bankrupt by couple of years. And a country that depends on foreign imports paid by oil money, for everything from food to cars to doctors to baby-sitters to military hardware to diplomatic support, this means only one thing: dismantling of the state.

Saudis are losing the game.
 
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The figures are from IMF and World Bank, they are as real as figures can get in real world.

Saudi Arabia is fast depleting its savings. At the current rate, they would be bankrupt by couple of years. And a country that depends on foreign imports paid by oil money, for everything from food to cars to doctors to baby-sitters to military hardware to diplomatic support, this means only one thing: dismantling of the state.

Saudis are losing the game.
I disagree with that at least not because of this reason they will bankrupt but they will because of religious authoritarian Govt, sorry to say like Iran.
In Saudia there is king above the King and in Iran there is a supreme leader above the elected one.
 
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I disagree with that at least not because of this reason they will bankrupt but they will because of religious authoritarian Govt, sorry to say like Iran.
In Saudia there is king above the King and in Iran there is a supreme leader above the elected one.

Then you don't know what you are talking about. Iran is winning. Saudis are gasping for mere survival.

And your comparison with Iran is also, simplistic and cartoonish. Something beyond the scope of this thread for me to respond to (which I have responded to a hundred times on this forum in other threads). If you can not see any difference between Iran's political structure and Saudi's, it does not mean they are the same.

The mere fact that in Saudi Arabia the political power is transferred to Saudi leaders via ejaculated sperm down a uterus, and in Iran a political process selects the leaders (which you might like or not like is beside the point), must be of educational value for you.
 
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Then you don't know what you are talking about. Iran is winning. Saudis are gasping for mere survival.

And your comparison with Iran is also, simplistic and cartoonish. Something beyond the scope of this thread for me to respond to (which I have responded to a hundred times on this forum in other threads). If you can not see any difference between Iran's political structure and Saudi's, it does not mean they are the same.
End of discussion at least from my side...

no difference at all.

regards,
 
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It is the single most important thing, which can bring peace to the world specially in Muslim lands.

The blind US support for Saudi Arabia has cost the world a fortune in money and blood.

It is time for US to stop propping up a family business.
Am going to say this as gently as possible -- that the criticism that the US 'blindly' support Saudi Arabia is idiotic.

US alliance with SA is as calculated as any country's alliance and support for its own interests. The calculus is different in that unlike authoritarian dynasties, which is what SA and NKR are, we have to prepare for multiple Presidents. The King of Saudi Arabia can rule for decades and his policies regarding the US must also compensate for possible Presidential changes. Nobody does anything blindly.

That said...The time for the US to gradually -- not abruptly -- disengage ourselves from SA is ideal. Our disengagement from the ME will not bring peace to the region, as you dream it would. Instead, it will bring further chaos as you Muslims fight each other for religious supremacy. There will be a nuclear arms race and a nuclear war between you. If there is an Allah, may He have mercy on your souls when the radioactive dust settled.
 
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The money and oil side of equation is highly exaggerated. With new technologies and oil finds, the world is not dependent on Saudi oil as it was 40 years ago. US itself is now pretty much independent from foreign oil. Even if Saudi oil is taken off the market today that would be just about the loss of 11% of the total world production. The world can live by without Saudi oil.

The question is if Saudis can live without selling oil: Welcome to AUSTERITY Saudi Arabia: Crashing oil prices sends economy into meltdown

Saudis are already going bankrupt.

It is time for US to come to its senses and stop the bloodshed.

You cannot dump your cousins in difficult times :P
 
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The money and oil side of equation is highly exaggerated. With new technologies and oil finds, the world is not dependent on Saudi oil as it was 40 years ago. US itself is now pretty much independent from foreign oil. Even if Saudi oil is taken off the market today that would be just about the loss of 11% of the total world production. The world can live by without Saudi oil.

The question is if Saudis can live without selling oil: Welcome to AUSTERITY Saudi Arabia: Crashing oil prices sends economy into meltdown

Saudis are already going bankrupt.

It is time for US to come to its senses and stop the bloodshed.

actually Saudis make up more than 11% and then there is OPEC, most importantly you lack the knowledge of the market.
market doesn't work on the world can survive, if in hypothetical scenario Saudi oil is taken off market , the world will experience a global recession as the prices of oil will easily hit 250-300 at least.
 
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actually Saudis make up more than 11% and then there is OPEC, most importantly you lack the knowledge of the market.
market doesn't work on the world can survive, if in hypothetical scenario Saudi oil is taken off market , the world will experience a global recession as the prices of oil will easily hit 250-300 at least.

:lol: Says someone whose country needs an international bail-out because of low oil prices: Azerbaijan may need bailout because of oil price crash - Jan. 28, 2016

"Azerbaijan's decade-long boom is well and truly over.

The oil producing central Asian country has been slammed by the oil price crash and is now considering asking for an international bailout.
Experts from the International Monetary Fund arrived in the capital Baku on Thursday to find out just how bad the situation has become.
"The team will discuss areas for technical assistance and assess possible financing needs," an IMF spokesperson told CNN.
A senior Azerbaijani official told CNN the government is thinking about an emergency loan of $4 billion to help it cope with the collapse in global crude oil prices.
Still, it may have other options. The country has about $30 billion dollars in its sovereign wealth fund -- money it saved for a rainy day, the official said.
Azerbaijan is one of many oil producers brought down by collapsing prices. The oil sector alone makes up around 37% of Azerbaijan's GDP, and nearly 90% of its exports, World Bank data shows.
It's currency, the manat, has lost 52% against the dollar in the last year."
 
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:lol: Says someone whose country needs an international bail-out because of low oil prices: Azerbaijan may need bailout because of oil price crash - Jan. 28, 2016

"Azerbaijan's decade-long boom is well and truly over.

The oil producing central Asian country has been slammed by the oil price crash and is now considering asking for an international bailout.
Experts from the International Monetary Fund arrived in the capital Baku on Thursday to find out just how bad the situation has become.
"The team will discuss areas for technical assistance and assess possible financing needs," an IMF spokesperson told CNN.
A senior Azerbaijani official told CNN the government is thinking about an emergency loan of $4 billion to help it cope with the collapse in global crude oil prices.
Still, it may have other options. The country has about $30 billion dollars in its sovereign wealth fund -- money it saved for a rainy day, the official said.
Azerbaijan is one of many oil producers brought down by collapsing prices. The oil sector alone makes up around 37% of Azerbaijan's GDP, and nearly 90% of its exports, World Bank data shows.
It's currency, the manat, has lost 52% against the dollar in the last year."

LOL first, what does that have anything to do with what I have said? second, those news are false and have been denied by the Finance Minister, Azerbaijan has reserves of 35 bil+ and a deficit of 2-3% , we are doing better than majority of oil producing countries.

Azerbaijan Denies Asking for $4-Billion Bailout | EurasiaNet.org

try harder next time :coffee:
 
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