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Is India really a big nation, which behaves small?

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fatman17

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Is India really a big nation, which behaves small?

By Jawed Naqvi
Monday, 14 Sep, 2009

Gen Hossain Mohammed Ershad, the first host of Saarc in 1985, said bluntly in a TV documentary sponsored by India’s foreign ministry that one of the main reasons for creating the grouping was that India’s smaller neighbours were ‘allergic’ to the big neighbour. ‘So we decided to bring everyone together to deal with the problem.’ Former US Senator and ex-ambassador to New Delhi Daniel Patrick Moynihan proclaimed that India is a big country, which behaves small.

The perceived smallness by foreigners is just as palpable at home. The exultation in the media over successfully getting the senior and the junior foreign ministers thrown out from their five-star hotel accommodations in Delhi reveals a mindset that goes with the description that perhaps bothered Moynihan. The eviction of two prominent ministers on the grounds that five-star luxury does not go with the drought and famine-like crisis being faced by millions of impoverished Indians is spurious, if also misleading.

It may have given the government a reason to gloat and win brownie points over some fictitious idealism but it serves no other purpose. It is of course just as foolish to force senior officials and ministers to travel economy class. The assumption behind the story is wrong. Suppose the ministers had been awarded some sprawling colonial-style bungalows in Lutyens’ Delhi, which they are entitled to, instead of being crammed in hotel rooms, would it make them ostentatious? Such reports help newspapers and TV channels escape their responsibility of throwing light on years of neo-con policies that have led to farmers’ suicides and boundless misery for so many Indians.

Tokenism was ok with someone of the stature of Gandhi, but in the current context such news reports are tantamount to what we know as the dumbing down of news. Gandhiji used to drink goat’s milk, which made him look something of an impoverished fakir. But that couldn’t stop Sarojini Naidu from chuckling to Gandhi: ‘Bapu, it costs us a fortune to keep you poor.’ Gandhi probably smiled back good-naturedly.

Some of the smallness is the handiwork of the media, with or without the assistance of their official minders in the business and intelligence communities. You should read just four English newspapers in Delhi to be abreast of the official or quasi-official line towards countries lying in the four directions from India, each exuding petty concerns rather than a visionary policy. One newspaper gives me all the anti-China propaganda that the dirty tricks department of the concerned agencies would want to expose us to. Another gives me the official pro-Sinhalese line on Sri Lanka. It also is nicely loaded with official dope on Kashmir and Pakistan. I read a third paper which never tires of canvassing for closer ties with Israel and the United States, in that order, together with a relentless campaign to privatise everything in sight. A fourth newspaper from Kolkata can give you insights into the complex affairs vis-à-vis Bangladesh and with India’s remote northeastern states, and all the way to Myanmar.

I have yet to come across a serious, objective discussion in any of the newspapers why India’s neighbours are allergic to it. Instead of blaming Pakistan’s ISI sleuths who probably play a hand whenever they find an opening in determining or undermining India’s ties with its neighbours, would it not be useful for Indian intellectuals and analysts to have a meaningful discussion as to why India’s RAW or IB are unable to neutralise the damage? India helped create Bangladesh out of Pakistan, but Dhaka today has better ties with Islamabad than with New Delhi. Is it because of ISI alone? Buddhist Sri Lanka, Hindu Nepal, they all seem to have better ties with Pakistan than with India. Shouldn’t there be a commission of inquiry set up by India to investigate the lapses by its ministers, officials and sleuths that have brought the country to a pass that bewildered Moynihan?

There are reports of rockets being fired the other day from Pakistan’s side of the international border in the Attari border region. This a serious incident not the least because it involves two nuclear-armed neighbours. It was however the very last paragraph of the report in The Hindu that suggested the incident could be the handiwork of ‘non-state players’. The matter was hopefully sorted out in the meeting the Pakistan Rangers and India’s BSF point persons held at the Wagah checkpost. A less sensational way to report the same incident would be to say upfront that the rockets were feared to have been fired by militants who are probably just as hostile towards the government in Pakistan. That would be the large-hearted and probably a truer way to treat a serious-looking incident at the border. What were the militants trying to do and what can the two countries do to not fall into heir trap?

In this regard it was heartening to read a piece by a former Indian intelligence chief, advising Indian journalists against sensationalising news of China’s threat to India. In his analysis of recent media focus on an imagined issue (which was evidently so outrageous that it was denied by the Indian foreign minister) B. Raman has discussed why the Chinese military is unhappy with the Indian media’s shrill anti-China rhetoric and why it could hurt both countries’ interests.

Raman quoted a report titled ‘China Refutes Trespass Claims’ carried on September 10 in The Global Times, the English-language daily published by the Communist Party-owned People’s Daily group.

Chinese non-governmental analysts have also been critical of the way sections of the Indian media sensationalised an incident involving the temporary detention of a plane of the UAE air force at Kolkata earlier this week for not correctly declaring that it was carrying a consignment of arms and ammunition and ‘combat missiles’ to China.

According to them, these arms and ammunition and missiles, which were manufactured in China, had been sent to Abu Dhabi for displaying in an international exhibition of military equipment and were being taken back to China after the exhibition was over. These analysts have expressed surprise over the manner in which the whole issue was sought to be sensationalised by sections of the Indian media as if it was a sinister development.

Raman says that while it was important for the media to report instances of alleged Chinese troop intrusions into Indian territory, they ought to take care not to create an anti-China frenzy, which may get out of control. ‘One was disturbed by the way a national television channel played up in a jingoistic manner the incident in the Ladakh sector in which a Chinese patrol is alleged to have intruded into Indian territory and painted China on a stone.’

Two acknowledged experts on China, who have an excellent knowledge of the Chinese language, appeared on the programme – a reputed academic of Delhi and a retired China expert of the Government of India. One would have expected the anchor to ask them to translate for the viewers what was written on the stone and to comment on the implications of it.

‘If he had done it, the entire jingoistic programme might have ended in a fizzle. He did not do so. Instead, most of the time, the viewers were subjected to an anti-China harangue by a retired army officer. I myself do not know Chinese, but I am told by those who know the language that what was written on the stone was ‘Middle Yellow River’. It could also be translated as central Yellow River.’ Moynihan’s words were not said with malice but with affection for India. Which hotel the ministers should sleep in or what class they should fly is of little consequence to the real issues the India media, the government and the sleuths need to handle with zealous care.

jawednaqvi***********
 
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I usually don't comment on this India thing, but yesterday I had an opportunity to interact with some posters on a thread :"China intrudes into XYz" - and I was quite taken back by the "bring it on" attitudes I was reading; I pointed out that India seem to have unfriendly relations with all it's neighbors and that possibly a more robust diplomatic effort was called for -- to my suprise, the response was that India's neighbors are jealous of it - it was as if all the education, all the polish, was left behind for a emotionally satisfying and ultimately silly rationale.

Readers who will be more interested may do a search for a thread :"What does Indian mean" or some such and you will discover a very similar idea to the one the author has pointed to, that is say, a paucity of visionary ideas.

Why does India continue to behave as if it were small?
 
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What a rubbish article. And Muse, what rubbish points as well. You DO KNOW that India has friendly relations with most of its neighbours. YOU also don't seem to make the same comments regarding your own jingoistic compatriots or jingoistic Chinese. Infact, you seem quite inclined to support juvenile statements by Chinese by waving the Chinese flag in support.

The fact is that India's neighbours like to drag up issues with India in order to fool their stupid masses into voting for them. Nothing less and nothing more. The sooner India's hostile neighbours recognize the fact of India's primacy in the region, the sooner we can have peace.
 
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The sooner India's hostile neighbours recognize the fact of India's primacy in the region, the sooner we can have peace


You are making the case of India behave like a small country - all your neighbors are wrong and the sooner they realize it there will be peace, - really, that's rather juvenile.

What the thread is trying to understand is what in India is it that allows it to behave like a small country - what keeps it trapped and disallows it to be the country that it aspires to be?

Chinese flags? Because we like them, they are friendly and the bangla use chinese flags because they like them and the lankan use Chinese flags because they like them -- What you should give some thought to is why they don't like India.
 
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Its not about wrong or right, its about whose stronger. The weak bends to the mighty, not the other way round.

Also you seem to be deliberatly avoiding my point regarding the Chinese. Similar "small" comments by Chinese regarding their weaker neighbours are not seen in the same light by you or your compatriots. Any reason for that?
 
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India helped create Bangladesh out of Pakistan, but Dhaka today has better ties with Islamabad than with New Delhi. Buddhist Sri Lanka, Hindu Nepal, they all seem to have better ties with Pakistan than with India.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
This shows utter lack of knolledge and desperate effort of india bashing by naqvi. He always does something very foolish.
 
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I usually don't comment on this India thing, but yesterday I had an opportunity to interact with some posters on a thread :"China intrudes into XYz" - and I was quite taken back by the "bring it on" attitudes I was reading; I pointed out that India seem to have unfriendly relations with all it's neighbors and that possibly a more robust diplomatic effort was called for -- to my suprise, the response was that India's neighbors are jealous of it - it was as if all the education, all the polish, was left behind for a emotionally satisfying and ultimately silly rationale.

Readers who will be more interested may do a search for a thread :"What does Indian mean" or some such and you will discover a very similar idea to the one the author has pointed to, that is say, a paucity of visionary ideas.
I disagree with your take on it. The article posted by Fatman is for most parts true, it does contain some hyperbole though. But I dont think there is a paucity of visionary ideas atm. If you had said that, say a decade or two ago, I would have humbly agreed with you for you would have been right on spot with the comment. However, look at India now! It takes time for sweeping changes to take effect. Years of 'License Raj' had taken its toll and now with this new wave of liberalization we see implementation of new visionary ideas all the time.

Why does India continue to behave as if it were small?
I wish we knew the answer for that one. Blame those govt babus ;) (seriously, no pun intended)
 
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Its not about wrong or right, its about whose stronger. The weak bends to the mighty, not the other way round


So is that it then, is that what is preventing India to be the nationit aspires to be; it needs to bend it's neighbors to it's will??

Is this something in Indian society as it is today? Is it that it feels petty and needs to act out this rage it feels inside it?

Let me set you straight, the might do not feel the need to bend anybody to their will - they lead by example.

Only Indian does not know that it is a great nation, it's there, it's inside and it will be allowed expression, once it makes peace with itself.
 
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I don't understand why you are appliyng pop-psychology to a whole country. You seem confused.

Fact is that as long as India has the bigger army, it will seek to promote its own interests, and it is in her neighbours interests to recognize that they will harm themselves more by clinging on to emotive issues in lieu of peace and prosperity.
 
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act is that as long as India has the bigger army, it will seek to promote its own interests, and it is in her neighbours interests to recognize that they will harm themselves more by clinging on to emotive issues in lieu of peace and prosperity

I don't know whether it's useful to think in terms of big armies - Japan is not a military power but we all envy it's development and technical and manufacturing prowess - and really we are for the most part either nuclear power and nuclear gaurantors, it does not make sense to speak in terms of large armies as instruments of national power.

Guppi says that in his opinion it's too early to make the kinds of comments we have been making about the supposed lack of visonary ideas and a pettyness in behaviour, because it has been just 2 decades or so that India can claim to come out of the socialist model.

Well, first I think we can all agree that the structural reforms of the early 90's was a visionary move, a visonary idea - what else needs to happen to propel India towards being it's own ideal?
 
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India isnt single nation.India itself is a continent which consist of many nation .Give them freed0m n make tis w0rld Peaceful. The reason 4 bad behaviour by Indian is just their frustration.many nation in india d0nt want 2 b part 0f India.Indians kn0 2mmorrow they r goin 2 b vanished from map of the world.
 
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So is that it then, is that what is preventing India to be the nationit aspires to be; it needs to bend it's neighbors to it's will??

Is this something in Indian society as it is today? Is it that it feels petty and needs to act out this rage it feels inside it?

Let me set you straight, the might do not feel the need to bend anybody to their will - they lead by example.

Only Indian does not know that it is a great nation, it's there, it's inside and it will be allowed expression, once it makes peace with itself.

Seems you have hard time to find the official statements ... and leave that conspiracy theories.

India to take up incursion with China in next meet

India will strongly raise the issue of recent incursions by the Chinese army in Ladakh area of Jammu and Kashmir at the next border personnel meeting between the two countries and also at the diplomatic level.

“We will definitely take up the matter with the Chinese during the next flag meeting of border personnel,” a senior Army official told Hindustan Times on the condition of anonymity.

Eastern Army Commander Lt Gen V.K. Singh and Leh-based XIV Corps head Lt Gen SK Singh, who along with other senior Army officials are currently in China on a “goodwill” visit, would also raise the matter with the Chinese authorities at the highest level, he said.

In his comments on the reported violations of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) by the Chinese troops in Ladakh in June and July this year, External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna sought to play down the issue, saying these incursions were not a big cause of concern for India.

“This (India-China border in Ladakh) is one of the peaceful boundaries that we share with other countries…. There is no problem on that,” he said.

There is an inbuilt mechanism to deal with such incidents, Krishna said.

The mechanism followed in such cases is that whenever an incursion takes place from either side, the border personnel of the two countries take it up at their next flag meeting, which is held on regular basis.

As per the India-China 2005 protocol, a flag meeting is to be called within 48 hours of any intrusion for clarification.

The incursion then has to be investigated by the country accused of intrusion and the result communicated to the other country within four weeks.

“This issue (recent incursions on June 21 and July 31) will be sorted out,” Krishna said.
 
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what else needs to happen to propel India towards being it's own ideal?

Get rid of demob-crazy, appoint a strong leader and implement a countrywide eugenics program. Get the average IQ to atleast 100 points.

Only then will India have a chance of challenging Chinese might or keeping its borders secure.
 
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Lo ji kar lo gal - from a Hitler Avatar to Stalinist Eugenic program - the OOki and the Kooki, the all together spooky, it's the Adams family

I gotta get out of this zoo!:wave:
 
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