Is India handing over Blank Cheque to Russia for Pak-Fa Project ?

[karim.chota]

Gone are the days of soviet era when Indian Air force Test pilots could secretly land on undisclosed airbase in Russia and were first to take up flights on New Prototype Fighter aircrafts which world had only heard about and never even seen them . India Today Report confirms that Indian team was in Russia when 5th prototype Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA T-50-5 fighter aircraft caught fire on 10 June following landing .

T-50-5 after 3 months of repairs is back in action but Indian team who were present at that time were denied access to the aircraft and still now have not informed Indian team real reason behind fire which inflicted significant damage above the aircraft?s starboard engine intake and into the aircraft?s spine, while much of the underside of the aircraft also appears to have been heavily damaged.

with less 15% work share to be done by HAL aren?t we paying for too much in name of Joint venture ? , when many of the critical technology under development will actually come from funds provided by India , But we will have little access to technology TOT nor will get any Royalties if Pak-fa is exported to other countries .

Sukhoi-30MKI largely developed by Indian Funding But India couldn?t claim Royalties for Export of Variants based on MKI and have to be satisfied bagging small contracts for Maintenance and training from this export customers . Now the question remains, are we doing same mistake again with Pak-FA , where India provides funds to complete Pak-Fa and later in future Russia bags order from current Su-30 operators to replace older Su-30s ?

when India issued tender for MMRCA, each aircraft competing was tested in various operational roles in various climate condition and Weapons testing , But when it comes to Pak-Fa our Pilots are even not allowed to carry out test flights in Russia let alone in India .First Prototype aircraft will be handed over to India only after India signs on the dotted line and provide crucial funds to Russia and then begins Journey of building FGFA Variant based on IAF Requirements , Not only we will end up funding Pak-Fa but Also FGFA variant, with so little share in its development , India will be far better if we Fund only MKI Variant of PAk-fa and come out of this So called Joint venture which will provide little or No technology know How in development of a 5th Generation fighter aircraft

Is India handing over Blank Cheque to Russia for Pak-Fa Project ? | idrw.org

 

[NKVD]

Gone are the days of soviet era when Indian Air force Test pilots could secretly land on undisclosed airbase in Russia and were first to take up flights on New Prototype Fighter aircrafts which world had only heard about and never even seen them . India Today Report confirms that Indian team was in Russia when 5th prototype Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA T-50-5 fighter aircraft caught fire on 10 June following landing .

T-50-5 after 3 months of repairs is back in action but Indian team who were present at that time were denied access to the aircraft and still now have not informed Indian team real reason behind fire which inflicted significant damage above the aircraft?s starboard engine intake and into the aircraft?s spine, while much of the underside of the aircraft also appears to have been heavily damaged.

with less 15% work share to be done by HAL aren?t we paying for too much in name of Joint venture ? , when many of the critical technology under development will actually come from funds provided by India , But we will have little access to technology TOT nor will get any Royalties if Pak-fa is exported to other countries .

Sukhoi-30MKI largely developed by Indian Funding But India couldn?t claim Royalties for Export of Variants based on MKI and have to be satisfied bagging small contracts for Maintenance and training from this export customers . Now the question remains, are we doing same mistake again with Pak-FA , where India provides funds to complete Pak-Fa and later in future Russia bags order from current Su-30 operators to replace older Su-30s ?

when India issued tender for MMRCA, each aircraft competing was tested in various operational roles in various climate condition and Weapons testing , But when it comes to Pak-Fa our Pilots are even not allowed to carry out test flights in Russia let alone in India .First Prototype aircraft will be handed over to India only after India signs on the dotted line and provide crucial funds to Russia and then begins Journey of building FGFA Variant based on IAF Requirements , Not only we will end up funding Pak-Fa but Also FGFA variant, with so little share in its development , India will be far better if we Fund only MKI Variant of PAk-fa and come out of this So called Joint venture which will provide little or No technology know How in development of a 5th Generation fighter aircraft

Is India handing over Blank Cheque to Russia for Pak-Fa Project ? | idrw.org

What do you accept from them we paid only 298 millions for preliminary design of the project worth 50 billion (future projection) deal is not even fully drafted yet leave signing asideRussians already invested huge funds in this project what's wrong in expecting india to pay there share

 

[The Unnamed]

IAF needs to be in the loop as a primary user. maaybe arup raha can take it up with his rusian counterpart. russia eeds cash. russia is not ussr. idrw is on hallucinogens.

 

[Ragnar]

If the Americans have troubles with F-22 and F-35, it is a fair bet that things won't be rosy for others. We should keep all options open. Hypothetically- What if Russia and China find that joint development is more feasible, take their SCO cooperation further and merge their 5G programs?

 

[mike2000]

What do you accept from them we paid only 298 millions for preliminary design of the project worth 50 billion (future protection) deal is not even fully drafted yet leave signing asideRussians already invested huge funds in this project what's wrong in expecting india to pay there share

Why can't India just make one themselves? I believe India has the capability/Man power/resources to make one if you really plan well and are determined to. Afterall, India can launch satellites in space and send one to mars, i belive they can make a 5th generation fighter Jet if they truly focus on making one. You have to start from somewhere, at this rate India will never be able to make one themselves and will keep depending on foreign powers(who wont want to share their latest tech to you people obviously, no matter how much you pay, which is understandable). There's only so much Russia can do for you/help you. If you dont try and be self reliant, there will be even more complains like this one.
I believe if China can make one(though they are way more advance than India), then India has the potential to make one if it really strives to. Come India you have some of the most brightest people/students i have seen(even here in U,K)

 

[Ragnar]

Why can't India just make one themselves? I believe India has the capability/Man power/resources to make one if you really plan well and are determined to. Afterall, India can launch satellites in space and send one to mars, i belive they can make a 5th generation fighter Jet if they truly focus on making one. You have to start from somewhere, at this rate India will never be able to make one themselves and will keep depending on foreign powers(who wont want to share their latest tech to you people obviously, no matter how much you pay, which is understandable). There's only so much Russia can do for you/help you. If you dont try and be self reliant, there will be even more complains like this one.
I believe if China can make one(though they are way more advance than India), then India has the potential to make one if it really strives to. Come India you have some of the most brightest people/students i have seen(even here in U,K)

India has way bigger priorities than development of 5th generation Jet Fighters. No doubt, if enough money and resources are spent, India can develop them alone. As can pretty much any other country.

 

[mike2000]

India has way bigger priorities than development of 5th generation Jet Fighters. No doubt, if enough money and resources are spent, India can develop them alone. As can pretty much any other country.

Huh....which 'bigger priorities' does India has bro? More like India is incapable of doing it for now due to mismanagement/lack of vision/set objectives/insufficient investment in R&D and over dependence on imports(the easy way).

 

[The Unnamed]

seriously...IAF needs to show interest in this. on a force to force basis. i truely wish indian test pilots would get to test fly the prototypes. i think it is primary to our look home for our needs policy. we can and should pay for it too if need be.

 

[nik22]

Why can't India just make one themselves? I believe India has the capability/Man power/resources to make one if you really plan well and are determined to. Afterall, India can launch satellites in space and send one to mars, i belive they can make a 5th generation fighter Jet if they truly focus on making one. You have to start from somewhere, at this rate India will never be able to make one themselves and will keep depending on foreign powers(who wont want to share their latest tech to you people obviously, no matter how much you pay, which is understandable). There's only so much Russia can do for you/help you. If you dont try and be self reliant, there will be even more complains like this one.
I believe if China can make one(though they are way more advance than India), then India has the potential to make one if it really strives to. Come India you have some of the most brightest people/students i have seen(even here in U,K)

India can not develop 5th gen aircraft on its own within reasonable timeframe. We do not have capability and resources.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

what you want that in 300 million they give you all secret of 5th gen..lol.. Russia has far more forign reserve then india so its not a cash strapped country what indians on pdf belive..

 

[Ragnar]

Huh....which 'bigger priorities' does India has bro? More like India is incapable of doing it for now due to mismanagement/lack of vision/set objectives/insufficient investment in R&D and over dependence on imports(the easy way).

Elimination of poverty, malnutrition, improvement in literacy and healthcare, other basic infrastructure are much bigger priorities. We have to strengthen ourselves economically first. Joint ventures are fine for now, provided that there are real gains. Of course no country is going to share all its secrets.

 

[axisofevil]

Why can't India just make one themselves? I believe India has the capability/Man power/resources to make one if you really plan well and are determined to. Afterall, India can launch satellites in space and send one to mars, i belive they can make a 5th generation fighter Jet if they truly focus on making one. You have to start from somewhere, at this rate India will never be able to make one themselves and will keep depending on foreign powers(who wont want to share their latest tech to you people obviously, no matter how much you pay, which is understandable). There's only so much Russia can do for you/help you. If you dont try and be self reliant, there will be even more complains like this one.
I believe if China can make one(though they are way more advance than India), then India has the potential to make one if it really strives to. Come India you have some of the most brightest people/students i have seen(even here in U,K)

India's shitty gov't (CONgress) spends the money on themselves and on issues that allow them to stay in power not defence related matters unless they can get a cut from it. Unless India invest more money towards indigineous research it will get nowhere. Japan invests $180 billion in research alone.

Also, India does not utilize its manpower sufficiently and does not even provide proper education on all levels (at least not enough). This has been an issue highlighted since Independence by one particular minister, but Nehru and every other PM ignored it. Know India is reaping these idiot's poor decisions...

 

[axisofevil]

Elimination of poverty, malnutrition, improvement in literacy and healthcare, other basic infrastructure are much bigger priorities. We have to strengthen ourselves economically first. Joint ventures are fine for now, provided that there are real gains. Of course no country is going to share all its secrets.

I disagree. While the issues you mentioned definetly need to be addresses, unless you invest in India's education and research, there will be very little movement economically. We put very little money into continuing agricultural research. Food for thought.


We had 60 bloody yrs....our gov'ts did nothing in terms of infrastructure and such. They could have planned things out better in devleoping cities or the very least after inheriting a colonial system of goverance, the politicans, lawyers and judges should went thru all the laws and decided to rule which should remain, amend and get rid of. We made no such movement.



Our priorities is not what you mentioned. Our priorities is getting this country in order, so that we create an environment that is conducive to resolving all the issues you mentioned.


Think about this,,all these bloody yrs, the Indian gov't has not been able to get rid of the middlemen from agriculture to defence. Why? One word corruption. We still haven;t been able to absorb or build proper storage units for agricultural products. So if we were so concerned about malnutrition and such, we would have attacked the points I made but we don't. Our previous gov'ts have done absolutely nothing. They put a bandaid on a wound that requires stitches.


I find it ridiculous to hear Rahul and Sonia yap about Modi doing nothing in 100 days......well I say what the fuk has Congress done in 50 fuking yrs? There is nothing to be proud of, given the amount of time they had.


The only stumbling block in India's progress has been goverance. It's the key problematic area that refuses to fix itself and unless ppl like you and me step in, it will be a f-king circus. Look at how idiots vote Laloo back into power. Look at UP? Look at Bengal and Mamta.

 

[mike2000]

India can not develop 5th gen aircraft on its own within reasonable timeframe. We do not have capability and resources.

I know India cant develop one in short notice/now. But they sure can plan/start making plans to make one say in a decade or so from now. Afterall, i know only 3 countries have the capabilties/have build a 5th generation fighter jet in the world Independently. i.e Russia, China and the big daddy U.S. Other have plans/or are early stages of building one. So its not as if its only India who cant do it now.

But what im pointing out is that, India has to start somewhere, make plans/designs and implement them, it doesnt matter how long it takes. Afterall, you are not in any arms race with China, and its not as if any country is going to invade you(you are a nuclear power already). So you should just focus on your own growth and terms. Dont let others dictate your pace of growth, since if you want to always match your more powerful rivals, then you always be playing catch up and importing weapons, since you havent invested/had time/unable to do it indegeniously. So you should be the one to dictate your own pace. not following others/be scared of lagging behind. So start from somewhere, no matter how small it might be, its by doing that, that you will learn, make mistakes and improve. Just like the Chinese have done. In a decade or so from now, i can say China will be up ther with the U.S and Russia(they are ahead of the later in some fields already), but i cant say the same for India unfortunately.

 

[DingDong]

Seems like India learned her lessons from Vikramaditya fiasco. India must not make any payment without getting concrete commitments on paper.