Is India a country or a continent?

[my2cents]

Arabs, then a Tukic Sultan, then another one, then long line of central Asians and Afghans who continued to rule Modiland, then came the Europeans to rule these wanabe Europeans. Brave people of modiland, I admire.

Says a wannabe Arab who doesn't know his identity.

 

[t_for_talli]

Why is it that all the Indians here like to equate the idea of India (which was very recent idea) to the history of the entire subcontinent?

The Indus River for example exists almost entirely within modern-day Pakistan, and they completely reject India's claim over its legacy.

Culture is not some thing materialistic (a physical object or a piece of land), its reflected in the way of life,
IVC culture is non existent in current Pakistan/ Afganistan,

Indians have every thing to do with IVC, there tonnes of stuff in our day today life from IVC , beliefs , language, Gods etc.
IVC > Sanskrit > Pali > Most Indian Languages (from Punjabi to Bangali to Marathi). There are 100s of such examples

Going by your logic only Arabs/ Palestinians should be having claim on Christianity, but in reality Christianity centre first moved to Constantinople then Vatican City

 

[!eon]

Says a wannabe Arab who doesn't know his identity.

An Afghan who entered your country with Sultan Mahmood Ghaznvi, and took it from you for ever.
As banyia is more interested in Pakistani's identity even more than Pakistanis, so you can make us whatever you want, but we know very well what we are.

Arab invasions of the subcontinent ended in failure , Bin Qasim ravaged what is modern day Sindh last i recall was located in Pakistan and his successors were reduced to vassal states of Indian empires.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_campaigns_in_India


This is bit rich coming from self proclaimed wannabe leader of the Islamic wrld, which has been subjugated for over 2400 years beginning as early as 518 BC with not a single instance of resistance or defense against any invaders which included :
Persians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_invasion_of_the_Indus_Valley

Greeks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Hydaspes

Sycthcians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians#Evidence_about_joint_invasions

Huns:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephthalite_Empire

Arabs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Qasim

Turks,

Mongols:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Balochistan#Islamic_conquest_of_Balochistan

Afghans and finally the British



And yes you have every reason to admire Indian empire which liberated your ancestors from foreign invaders

Mauryan liberation of regions forming modern day Pakistan, from the Greek rule

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid–Mauryan_war

Gupta empire's liberation of regions forming modern day Pakistan from Sythicians and Hunnic rule

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire

Prathihara/Rajput liberation of regions forming modern day Pakistan from Arab rule

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_campaigns_in_India

Sikh liberation of regions forming modern day Pakistan from Afghans rule

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan–Sikh_Wars

Though I never read your above newspaper, but I know like Mahrana Pertab defeated Akber, Muhammad bin Qasim was defeated in Arabian sea, Mahmood Ghaznvi was defeated right in Kabul by a brave unknown Banyia, Ghori was defeated and pushed out of Ghor of Aghanistan, Mughals could never enter India, British lost their empire because of brave Hindu soldiers of Modiland, and today's Pakistan was never part of Modiland (so called continent). Pakistan was created out of thin air.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Who built the IVC? Some say they were Proto-Dravidians who were later on driven to South India by invading Aryans crossing over from Hindu Kush.

Hindus built IVC.

 

[Hold up]

Hindus built IVC.

Yeah sure, and today believe it or not I saw a flying pig over our orchard

 

[Pakistani E]

He meant that modern day Pakistan consists mainly of Aryans who came here around 2000-1500 BC. Before that it was inhabitated by some other peoples. Some say the Brahuis are remnants of those peoples.

And I am sure you and your other fellow Indian will now present the genetic make up of the IVC people to back this up....

 

[Peshwa]

Hindus built IVC.

Absolutely not!
We know nothing about their religion or their ethnic makeup except for conjecture and theories.
So we need to stop with putting the Hindu stamp on everything and let History just be history that everyone can learn from and enjoy!

 

[Pakistani E]

And this was the claim made by your comrade. Don't know how to spell his name. the one that is obsessed with phalluses based on his user handle.
I just responded saying anything is believable when there is no burden of proof for claims.
But TBH I suppose I overeacted thinking you were quoting him. Maybe you made the Mars comment independently.
So maybe that's where the confusion stems from.






Sure.
Since we don't know what happened to the people of IVC. Whether they migrated, or perished is a big question mark.

The people of the nation of Pakistan living on those lands today are an amalgamation of various empires, population exchanges, conquests and even migrations that existed through recorded history.
At this point in time, there is no DNA evidence to prove a direct lineage of Pakistanis with those of the IVC. I'm simply asking for this evidence.

The analogy I made with Americans was that they ended up in North America as a result of various factors, mostly migration. Pakistanis cannot draw a direct lineage to the IVC folks and Americans (whites and black) have no ancestral connection to the civilizations that existed before their arrival.
Yet today, America is predominantly white and the history of America as a land belongs to them all but it doesn't become their ancestral history. Americans are NOT descendents of those that lived in North America before their arrival and cannot make such claims without proof.
So I ask you again. Do you have proof of ancestral connections with IVC?
If so, I will concede. I have no shame in admitting if I were wrong. I just need to see this evidence.



The only believable thing you've said all day.

So you do not have proof to say that Pakistanis are not descended from IVC and I do not have proof to say otherwise. Yet I am not the one sitting here making a analogies with America and White Europeans.

It would be childish to assume that a large number of Pakistanis do not have even 0.01% of the genetics that the IVC people have. That doesn't happen anywhere during migrations, let alone where the migrants and invaders are vastly outnumbered by the locals. So your analogy with America is completely wrong. Americans are indeed NOT descendants of those that lived in North America because we can prove it, but you CANNOT prove the same for Pakistanis. So refrain from doing what you are accusing others of doing on this thread. Cheers.

 

[Peshwa]

So you do not have proof to say that Pakistanis are not descended from IVC and I do not have proof to say otherwise.

No I can make the statement that Pakistanis cannot claim ancestry of IVC because no evidence exists. This is a Fact!
And I can make that claim to dispel the repeated lies propagated by Pakistanis who claim so.
I don't need to provide the evidence of Lineage you do! Since you are making a the claim.

In the court of law, when you accuse (make a claim) me of murder, it is your responsibility of to prove that I murdered someone, NOT for me to prove my innocence.

It would be childish to assume that a large number of Pakistanis do not have even 0.01% of the genetics that the IVC people have.

Yes it is childish to Assume! You should take heed of your own words and know that its exactly what youre doing. NOT ME!
So now we have assumptions as proof is it? Please take this to the court or an arbitrator and see what happens.

That doesn't happen anywhere during migrations, let alone where the migrants and invaders are vastly outnumbered by the locals.

So let me ask you something, what do you think happened to the people of IVC?
Your claim is that they just continued living there and mixed with the invaders, migrants etc to become present day Pakistanis?
If so, then why were Mohenjodaro and other sites abandoned in pristine conditions? Shouldn't there be evidence of a continuous civilization? Some evidence of language continuity, some similar scripts, cultural similarities?
Anything to prove that you're related? ANYTHING?!

So your analogy with America is completely wrong. Americans are indeed NOT descendants of those that lived in North America because we can prove it, but you CANNOT prove the same for Pakistanis. So refrain from doing what you are accusing others of doing on this thread. Cheers.

Logic just committed suicide!
So here's your take: We cannot prove our lineage to IVC, so we should just assume that we are.

The analogy to America is apt because it describes two similar situations where migrants adopted a foreign land as their own and are a majority in those lands displacing its original residents.
If you cant see the obvious, I cant help you. You can ignore the America comment and focus on addressing the other flawed assumptions you've been throwing around.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Absolutely not!
We know nothing about their religion or their ethnic makeup except for conjecture and theories.
So we need to stop with putting the Hindu stamp on everything and let History just be history that everyone can learn from and enjoy!

Do you know what is Hinduism?? And how Hinduism came into existence?
I have study almost all religion closely. But I found that Hinduism is not a religion but a civilization itself. And there was no religion in existence when ivc was built.

 

[ito]

India is a subcontinent.

 

[Dungeness]

India was a subcontinent before 1947. India has been a country since 1947.

 

[kvpak]

Hindus built IVC.

fish symbols found in indus valley show it was tamil civilization.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

fish symbols found in indus valley show it was tamil civilization.

So who are Tamil?? Aliens??

 

[faithfulguy]

fish symbols found in indus valley show it was tamil civilization.

Fish symbols can also mean Christian as well. Now, I'm not saying that IVC are Christian. But a symbol as common as fish can be claimed by multiple people. We actually need definitive answers such as translation of written recors or DNA analysis. Otherwise, they might as well be Australian Aboriginals, Eskimos, or even Neanderthals. Anyone can claim them.