IS EVERYTHING ALRIGHT WITH MMRCA DEAL?

[Koovie]

Did the journo report this, or was it a private conversation? If it's top secret, the journo wouldn't know. If it is not secret, he would report it, instead of just telling you, because that's what journos do.

The fact that the AESA source codes will have to be transferred was a mandatory requirement, even during the selection stage. Only the vendors who gave assurances of that would have been selected. Uncertainty about the same was one of the points against the F-18SH. It is impossible that dassault would backtrack at this stage and withhold the source codes. And if they have agreed to part with the source codes, which they did long back, there is no need for any delays or negotiations for that - putting it on a storage medium and handing it over is all it takes. (I'm being simplistic on that, but the point is that transferring computer code doesn't cause any delays. They are not transported from france on horseback.)

^^ You mean top secret as those "top secret" MMRCA documents which were lying on the streets of Delhi

 

[janon]

^^ You mean top secret as those "top secret" MMRCA documents which were lying on the streets of Delhi

That's irrelevant to my point, which is that he is very possibly wrong that AESA source codes are holding up negotiations.

The point is that his statement seems wrong, not that it is top secret.

 

[Markus]

Koi baat nahi, Rafale deal nahi hua toh Typhoon kharid lenge.

 

[Gandalf]

Did the journo report this, or was it a private conversation? If it's top secret, the journo wouldn't know. If it is not secret, he would report it, instead of just telling you, because that's what journos do.

The fact that the AESA source codes will have to be transferred was a mandatory requirement, even during the selection stage. Only the vendors who gave assurances of that would have been selected. Uncertainty about the same was one of the points against the F-18SH. It is impossible that dassault would backtrack at this stage and withhold the source codes. And if they have agreed to part with the source codes, which they did long back, there is no need for any delays or negotiations for that - putting it on a storage medium and handing it over is all it takes. (I'm being simplistic on that, but the point is that transferring computer code doesn't cause any delays. They are not transported from france on horseback.)

The journo who told this to me is also a blogger on defence and many of his blog posts are posted in this forum.

As for the second part of your post AESA sourcecodes are very vast in nature so I think that problem may have risen if India asked for permission to modify the code(Modification of the code is needed if you want to mate the radar with Russian weapons).

Remember US is not sharing AESA source codes of F-35 Radar with even Israel AFAIK.

 

[janon]

The journo who told this to me is also a blogger on defence and many of his blog posts are posted in this forum.

As for the second part of your post AESA sourcecodes are very vast in nature so I think that problem may have risen if India asked for permission to modify the code(Modification of the code is needed if you want to mate the radar with Russian weapons).

Remember US is not sharing AESA source codes of F-35 Radar with even Israel AFAIK.

So has this journo reported this in any of his blogs? If so, please give us a link.

If the source codes need to be modified, that will be done after we have the Rafale in our hands, not during contract negotiation phase. The purchase won't be held up for that. Permission to modify will either be given or not given.

Also, I'm not sure that mating Russian weapons is a top priority, since the rafale and the mirage upgrades comes with a fine set of French weapons which we have already decided to pay for. Even if they want to do all that, that will be done later, and they wont foolishly hold up the purchase, manufacture etc at such an early stage by trying to modify the source codes. Tinkering comes later. Purchase comes first.

 

[Gandalf]

So has this journo reported this in any of his blogs? If so, please give us a link.

If the source codes need to be modified, that will be done after we have the Rafale in our hands, not during contract negotiation phase. The purchase won't be held up for that. Permission to modify will either be given or not given.

Also, I'm not sure that mating Russian weapons is a top priority, since the rafale and the mirage upgrades comes with a fine set of French weapons which we have already decided to pay for. Even if they want to do all that, that will be done later, and they wont foolishly hold up the purchase, manufacture etc at such an early stage by trying to modify the source codes. Tinkering comes later. Purchase comes first.

Nope,

But what do you think will happen if French technicians find out we have tampared with Rafale

 

[selvan33]

actually all the technology transfer negotiatons are over and now commercial disscussions for selecting subsystem manufacturers are going on between HAL and dassault in india(actually there is little ego between dassault and HAL in choosing subsystem manufacturers but now that was solved by defence minister involvement) . the deal will be signed before 31 march 2013.

 

[janon]

Nope,

But what do you think will happen if French technicians find out we have tampared with Rafale

Depends on what you mean by "tampering". Modifying source codes? That is already expected, which is why we have asked for the source codes from the beginning, and they have agreed. If not, we would not have paid for transferring the source codes. The radar will also be manufactured completely in India, and not merely assembled.

We won't just be "tampering" with the rafales. We will be manufacturing them here, eventually from raw materials stage.

 

[SajeevJino]

The IAF is talking to Dassault officials on a daily basis.

Love Proposal I think

 

[Gandalf]

Depends on what you mean by "tampering". Modifying source codes? That is already expected, which is why we have asked for the source codes from the beginning, and they have agreed. If not, we would not have paid for transferring the source codes. The radar will also be manufactured completely in India, and not merely assembled.

We won't just be "tampering" with the rafales. We will be manufacturing them here, eventually from raw materials stage.

But France now want's that Core of the radar must from Thales.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The IAF is talking to Dassault officials on a daily basis.

The IAF has done its job- it has passed on the final technical and flight analysis almost 2'years ago which is when the downselect occurred. The Indians talking to Dassualt are a dedicated negation team from the MoD with minimal IAF involvement. The IAF's job was done some time ago wrt the MMRCA. They are waiting for the final result just like the rest of us! Of course they will have an inside track and liaison officers which keep the IAF appriased of the ongoing conversation.


Let's wait until March 31st and see what happens- I can't WAIT!

I am told by the time Aero India 2013 starts the picture will be much clearer.

 

[Anony]

I read it in an article, that 126 fighter MMRCA deal can well cost IAF close to $20 bn. If this is true, then per fighter will cost close to $160 mn. It is even more than fifth gen fighter plane. I seriously doubt the reliability of this news, but if true I don't want this deal to take place because PAF don't have fighter of that quality and even Tejas mk2 can match J 10B capability.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I read it in an article, that 126 fighter MMRCA deal can well cost IAF close to $20 bn. If this is true, then per fighter will cost close to $160 mn. It is even more than fifth gen fighter plane. I seriously doubt the reliability of this news, but if true I don't want this deal to take place because PAF don't have fighter of that quality and even Tejas mk2 can match J 10B capability.

This figure includes life-cycle costs. A 5th gen fighter will be more expensive both initially and over its life cycle.

 

[Koovie]

I read it in an article, that 126 fighter MMRCA deal can well cost IAF close to $20 bn. If this is true, then per fighter will cost close to $160 mn. It is even more than fifth gen fighter plane. I seriously doubt the reliability of this news, but if true I don't want this deal to take place because PAF don't have fighter of that quality and even Tejas mk2 can match J 10B capability.

MMRCA is not only about the plane itself. We will get the full technology for one of the best fighters in the world, 50% offset clause, cooperation between Dassault and Indian firms etc.

And how do you know that the Tejas MK2 will outperform the J10B??!!

 

[Anony]

MMRCA is not only about the plane itself. We will get the full technology for one of the best fighters in the world, 50% offset clause, cooperation between Dassault and Indian firms etc.

And how do you know that the Tejas MK2 will outperform the J10B??!!

May not outperform but match J10B.

1. J 10 combat radius is 550km without aerial refueling whereas Tejas combat radius is 850 km without aerial refueling.

2. J 10B will able to carry 6 ton of payload and if it carries drop tank to increase it's range it's weapon load will decrease to 4.5 ton. On the other hand Tejas mk2's payload is 5 ton clean.(Note:- J 10 will not able to take off with full 6 ton payload from high altitude.)

3. Both will have AESA radar.

4. Cruising speed of both the plane is same.

5. Thrust to weight ratio of Tejas will be better than J-10B.

6. RCS of Tejas mk2 will be smaller than J-10B.