Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[sardar1987]

Man they know nothing m telling u....these guys are joker they troll everywhere

seriously the guy challanged me with rcs figure,,,,,,,i quoted this and he tells me its impossible to tell rcs from figures

and how the hell is he sure about rafale rcs??reading aviation magazines!!
Either prove something,contribute to something or don't abuse ppl with words like newbie etc

 

[surya kiran]

Can u answer in technical terms or not
When trials were held

1)rafale was flying with rbe2 pesa

2)typhoon with a pulse doppler captor radar(maybe pesa,not sure)

So to heel with clearing requirements,,,did that pesa perform better than mig 35 aesa then or f-16 aesa??

And that aesa will have just 850 t/r modules with a fixed antenna??
what would u say to that?



And again i am the one posting links and proving stuff,u are just threatening me..........just disprove me!!
And the proposed captor-e aesa would have like 1400 t/r modules and full a to g function

If we are to spend 100 million atleast we ought to get better radar

Again you are brain farting as usual. And jumping around. I asked you prove that parameters that the Rafale was bad choice compared to the other planes. You are talking about AESA. The simple point that you are not able to provide parameters like RCS, Operational Costs, HMD, pilot machine automation, Clearance of take offs and landings, Missile categories involved, Procurement costs proves you are just here to fart around. All this read in the relevant section. I will not give you links.

You think the trials were about AESA? It was for the whole system. No fighter, besides the Rafale and Typhoon least of the Mig cleared all the flight trials. If the plane does not clear the trial the point of the AESA is moot genius? The mig 35 failed high altitude trials genius. They were allowed to continue for the shere reason that they were Russians. Go ask someone from the IAF if this is true or false. You expect them to select a plane which fails to take off? i have also explained to you the process for selection and how its done.

All your queries are in the MMRCA sections. Go read. I am not going to give you any links.I have told this to you before I am telling you again. Go read.

Anyways, you were right. We should have bought the Tiger Moth. The Rafale is ****.

 

[sardar1987]

Again you are brain farting as usual. And jumping around. I asked you prove that parameters that the Rafale was bad choice compared to the other planes. You are talking about AESA. The simple point that you are not able to provide parameters like RCS, Operational Costs, HMD, pilot machine automation, Clearance of take offs and landings, Missile categories involved, Procurement costs proves you are just here to fart around. All this read in the relevant section. I will not give you links.

You think the trials were about AESA? It was for the whole system. No fighter, besides the Rafale and Typhoon least of the Mig cleared all the flight trials. If the plane does not clear the trial the point of the AESA is moot genius? The mig 35 failed high altitude trials genius. They were allowed to continue for the shere reason that they were Russians. Go ask someone from the IAF if this is true or false. You expect them to select a plane which fails to take off?

All your queries are in the MMRCA sections. Go read. I am not going to give you any links.I have told this to you before I am telling you again. Go read.

Again u cannot provide links as there are no links baby...........did u listen??
I am not going to give links!!Then don't waste my time here,,,,,and stop with ur brash language,u have no clue about rbe2aa radar and u are laughing at me

Go to dassault site and see for urself the puny fixed plate radar,,,,and when eurofighter gets captor e in 2015 then what??
That radar will have almost double the t/r modules!!

Post me the link that mig 35 failed in altitude trials?Yes i agree mig 35 is no match for rafale but what about the price hero hera laal!!
You want the wars to be fought on spectra and awaca only!!

 

[surya kiran]

Again u cannot provide links as there are no links baby...........did u listen??
I am not going to give links!!Then don't waste my time here,,,,,and stop with ur brash language,u have no clue about rbe2aa radar and u are laughing at me

Go to dassault site and see for urself the puny fixed plate radar,,,,and when eurofighter gets captor e in 2015 then what??
That radar will have almost double the t/r modules!!

Post me the link that mig 35 failed in altitude trials?Yes i agree mig 35 is no match for rafale but what about the price hero hera laal!!
You want the wars to be fought on spectra and awaca only!!

Ok. I realise now, I am talking to a 10 year old. So I will explain the proces, how I normally will explain to a 10 year old.

1. You want a chocolate. You tell papa, you want a chocolate.
2. Papa asks, beta what chocolate you want?
3. Beta, you say I want chocolate with 75% cocoa and it should have almond.
4. Papa goes to shop. He says, baniyaji, I want chocolate with 75% cocoa.
5. Baniyaji says, I have chocolates with 5 chocolates. But only 3 of them have 75% cocoa and only 2 have almonds. One has 50% cocoa and almonds and one has 50% cocoa.
6. Papaji says, baniyaji remove other 3. Tell me of the 2 is cheaper.
7. Baniyaji says this 1 is cheaper.
8. Papaji buys chocoalte and gives you.
9. Your suggestion is we buy the one with 50% cocoa.

Now beta, do you understand process? In your scenario, first question to be asked is how much. Your logic fails in step one. Now since, you know what question to ask, please go MMRCA section I will not give any links, so sorry

You are good stress buster, I will give you that. I will see you again after dinner

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Again u cannot provide links as there are no links baby...........did u listen??
I am not going to give links!!Then don't waste my time here,,,,,and stop with ur brash language,u have no clue about rbe2aa radar and u are laughing at me

Go to dassault site and see for urself the puny fixed plate radar,,,,and when eurofighter gets captor e in 2015 then what??
That radar will have almost double the t/r modules!!

Post me the link that mig 35 failed in altitude trials?Yes i agree mig 35 is no match for rafale but what about the price hero hera laal!!
You want the wars to be fought on spectra and awaca only!!

why do you think mig35 and others didn't make it to the final list ?
do you think iaf which run the tests were biased, cheated, manipulated results ?

 

[Anurag Rathore]

seriously the guy challanged me with rcs figure,,,,,,,i quoted this and he tells me its impossible to tell rcs from figures

and how the hell is he sure about rafale rcs??reading aviation magazines!!
Either prove something,contribute to something or don't abuse ppl with words like newbie etc

do u knw what they are called-fanboys

 

[Anurag Rathore]

why do you think mig35 and others didn't make it to the final list ?
do you think iaf which run the tests were biased, cheated, manipulated results ?

Mate he says raffale is best in all planes but is overpriced thats it and we are aqquring large no.
instead of it we should get less raffales or get mig 35 and invest money in indegenous projects dnt u get that

 

[sardar1987]

Ok. I realise now, I am talking to a 10 year old. So I will explain the proces, how I normally will explain to a 10 year old.

1. You want a chocolate. You tell papa, you want a chocolate.
2. Papa asks, beta what chocolate you want?
3. Beta, you say I want chocolate with 75% cocoa and it should have almond.
4. Papa goes to shop. He says, baniyaji, I want chocolate with 75% cocoa.
5. Baniyaji says, I have chocolates with 5 chocolates. But only 3 of them have 75% cocoa and only 2 have almonds. One has 50% cocoa and almonds and one has 50% cocoa.
6. Papaji says, baniyaji remove other 3. Tell me of the 2 is cheaper.
7. Baniyaji says this 1 is cheaper.
8. Papaji buys chocoalte and gives you.
9. Your suggestion is we buy the one with 50% cocoa.

Now beta, do you understand process? In your scenario, first question to be asked is how much. Your logic fails in step one. Now since, you know what question to ask, please go MMRCA section I will not give any links, so sorry

You are good stress buster, I will give you that. I will see you again after dinner

are u a philosophy teacher in a college??

are u a philosophy teacher in a college??

or a rafale dealer

by the way enjoy

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Mate he says raffale is best in all planes but is overpriced thats it and we are aqquring large no.
instead of it we should get less raffales or get mig 35 and invest money in indegenous projects dnt u get that

1) we have LCA coming up as an indigenous product.
2)we have pakfa coming up more or less like a su30mki way.
3)we need to fill up the numbers quickly, same time it needs to a quality platform.LCA can fill up numbers but not the required quality and abilities, pakfa is too far in terms of time, so we choose Rafale.
4) in price part Rafale might be slightly high, but since only Rafale and typhoon only fulfilled the technical parameters, choice was between them,Rafale was cheaper than typhoon, ready with air to ground capacity compared to typhoon,commonality and experience with mirage, so it was the right choice.
5) we are paying a premium for Rafale but that doesn't mean we don't have funds for other indigenous projects, we need Rafale in good numbers to counter the Chinese Jxx series and infrastructure development along the border.

 

[sardar1987]

1) we have LCA coming up as an indigenous product.
2)we have pakfa coming up more or less like a su30mki way.
3)we need to fill up the numbers quickly, same time it needs to a quality platform.LCA can fill up numbers but not the required quality and abilities, pakfa is too far in terms of time, so we choose Rafale.
4) in price part Rafale might be slightly high, but since only Rafale and typhoon only fulfilled the technical parameters, choice was between them,Rafale was cheaper than typhoon, ready with air to ground capacity compared to typhoon,commonality and experience with mirage, so it was the right choice.
5) we are saying a premium for Rafale forest mean we don't have funds for other indigenous projects, we need Rafale in good numbers to counter the Chinese Jxx series and infrastructure development along the border.

you are right in all your points,guess u haven't seen my links.

1)The thing is we are using like 2.5% of defence budget on research and due to this reason we make no important component of lca(maybe engine starter,,,,!!)

2)We gain nothing from this deal or pakfa as we won't be given critical technologies acc to this,pls read

DPP, Transfer of Technology Guidelines, 1(j)

Although, not desirable, some of the components/ process specifically developed by the OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers) for use in the manufacture of licensed product may be classified by them as `Proprietary’ and not included within the scope of TOT offered to the Production Agency.

So after these 2 deals how much money do u think will be left for lca ,kaveri,indigenous avionics???feel free to answer

Why not get pakfa as production is slated to start in 2016??
It may be slightly inferior to the fgfa but surely better than rafale in most aspects.Pls answer
We will not start inducting rafale before 2018 so pakfa seems a better idea to me,as instead of bringing rafale to equation,why not go for 250-300 pakfa only,especially if they cost the same??pls answer

And don't tell me we require a mix of 4.5 and 5 generation as that argument is bullshit

 

[surya kiran]

are u a philosophy teacher in a college??



or a rafale dealer

by the way enjoy

No. Just a simple person who comes and enjoys himself But then let me humour you a bit more. Hint - the photo is not of a production model. AND if you search properly you will find a link with a document from rafale which says its above 1000 in the production models.

Chalo party time ! ciao!

 

[sardar1987]

No. Just a simple person who comes and enjoys himself But then let me humour you a bit more. Hint - the photo is not of a production model. AND if you search properly you will find a link with a document from rafale which says its above 1000 in the production models.

Chalo party time ! ciao!

Its a lie as provided in the link.............t/r modules can be easily counted and u are free to count,from any picture if i may say!!

 

[Anurag Rathore]

1) we have LCA coming up as an indigenous product.
2)we have pakfa coming up more or less like a su30mki way.
3)we need to fill up the numbers quickly, same time it needs to a quality platform.LCA can fill up numbers but not the required quality and abilities, pakfa is too far in terms of time, so we choose Rafale.
4) in price part Rafale might be slightly high, but since only Rafale and typhoon only fulfilled the technical parameters, choice was between them,Rafale was cheaper than typhoon, ready with air to ground capacity compared to typhoon,commonality and experience with mirage, so it was the right choice.
5) we are paying a premium for Rafale but that doesn't mean we don't have funds for other indigenous projects, we need Rafale in good numbers to counter the Chinese Jxx series and infrastructure development along the border.

100$million is too high as we get the best in world f22 at 200$ million i knw its not for import

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

you are right in all your points,guess u haven't seen my links.

1)The thing is we are using like 2.5% of defence budget on research and due to this reason we make no important component of lca(maybe engine starter,,,,!!)

2)We gain nothing from this deal or pakfa as we won't be given critical technologies acc to this,pls read

DPP, Transfer of Technology Guidelines, 1(j)

Although, not desirable, some of the components/ process specifically developed by the OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers) for use in the manufacture of licensed product may be classified by them as `Proprietary’ and not included within the scope of TOT offered to the Production Agency.

So after these 2 deals how much money do u think will be left for lca ,kaveri,indigenous avionics???feel free to answer

Why not get pakfa as production is slated to start in 2016??
It may be slightly inferior to the fgfa but surely better than rafale in most aspects.Pls answer
We will not start inducting rafale before 2018 so pakfa seems a better idea to me,as instead of bringing rafale to equation,why not go for 250-300 pakfa only,especially if they cost the same??pls answer

And don't tell me we require a mix of 4.5 and 5 generation as that argument is bullshit

mmrca was to be signed long back, but we are still waiting, so when looking from that point of time t50 picture was not clear, even now 2016 is a expected date, it's a developing platform,there is no guarantee that there will not be any delay,first preference would be Russian air force, so India most likely will have to wait few more years to have our production line, pakfa needs to counter j20 so we need better avionics, avionics has been a weakness of Russia, so I believe we are improving that part with our contributions in the programme, by the time of 2018-2020 new pakfa engine will also be ready, so India will most likely go for that version directly.
Rafale is a ready product, we will start induction by 2016-2017, we can't say we are cancelling mrca because we are now going for x,y,z platform, that will affect the credibility of whole nation.
2)question of research funds, sure we need to invest more in indigenous research and products, I prefer joint ventures rather than purely indigenous products to avoid technological bottle necks and timely results.in the category of fighter let we already have LCA for iaf as well as navy, MOD ordered our defence researchers to hold AMCA to make sure the timely completion of LCA. so in fighter jet category we have enough indigenous programmes.as far as engine development is concerned I don't think funds was the problem, it was technological problems.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

100$million is too high as we get the best in world f22 at 200$ million i knw its not for import

we don't know what's the exact price, package, tot etc, only thing known is Rafale was the lowest bidder so it's selected.