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Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

ohkk i will explain you with patience

1. What good with Su35 will do for us? We already will have 272 mki, those are more than enough for A2A role.
2. You can modernise it to whatever level you want. but you won't be getting it before 2020 and if you are getting PAK FA by 2022, whats the point?
3. just writing speed up LCA won't speed it up, it will take its own time. Antony has already said to stick to deadlines so that IOC-2 can be given before elections. Even the current FOC deadline looks unrealistic to me. I will bet my money saying that FOC will see further delays.
4. do you know that privatisation of HAL was proposed about 2 years ago? It received nod from CCEA about an year ago. Still no action.


My points are

1)even if lca flies(lol,i know)......what have we contributed to it
a)engine is american ge-404
b)samtel displays(25% indian share)
c)radar-israel
d)radome-----was rejected 2-3 months ago(even radome)
f) no irst still
g)no idea about rwr or maws but they are pretty basic ones

All i am saying is that without PRIVATIZATION of these chai-biscuit organisations we are doomed man.Time is running out
 
FIRST THING CLAM DOWN AND READ SLOWLY.

the single crystal turbine blade is from rafael and its tech after transfer can be used for our engine development. May be into kaveri too.

TOT gives you technology on how to do stuff. As of know we didn't make use of it. It was the problem from our PSUs and not with the TOT concept. We have Bofors tech for decades. Bofors didn't stop us from doing work on it. We didn't do.

And stop claiming the things that you just think. Prove it or don't post it.



Do you even read my post ???

Do you know were PAK-FA aka FGFA will house its weapons ???

Really I am bored of your nonsense. If you cant even read try not to quote me

Ok post me the link where it says they will give to tech for single crystal blade??

What blades do al-31f use??just asking

as for pakfa
t50%20%28155%29.jpg

t50%20%2823%29.jpg

http://paralay.com/pakfa/t50 (21).jpg




And pls do tell the rcs of pakfa from that picture
 
Ok post me the link where it says they will give to tech for single crystal blade??

What blades do al-31f use??just asking

as for pakfa
http://paralay.com/pakfa/t50 (155).jpg
http://paralay.com/pakfa/t50 (21).jpg
http://paralay.com/pakfa/t50 (23).jpg

And pls do tell the rcs of pakfa from that picture
So you want to me to prove my claim but you will dance with your claims without any link :disagree:

What will come in TOT is yet to be final and is being discussed. The said blade tech was in talks. And I cant give you any link on that as of now. May be @DrSomnath999


Why are you dragging PAK-FA in this ???
Comprehension problem ??? :devil:

And about Pak-Fa , you ask things you cant understand. No idiot can calucate RCS from pics. And instead of arguging idiotically why not read my post again ???
Here I save your trouble and now at least read it or just dont quote me.

- Basic thing you forget, Russian planes are lower in cost per piece but their operating and life cycle cost is huge.

- RCS reduction produce nothing much for 4/4.5 gen planes. If your platform uses weapons on external hard points your platform no matter how much composites it use , glow like christmas tree on radar. So considering the two planes the smaller one will be less visible on radar than the bigger one with more load.

- and the object of MMRCA is different. If IAF wanted bigger plan they would simply have bought more licences for MKIs. But they want a medium category plane
 
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So you want to me to prove my claim but you will dance with your claims without any link :disagree:

What will come in TOT is yet to be final and is being discussed. The said blade tech was in talks. And I cant give you any link on that as of now. May be @DrSomnath999
Comprehension problem ??? :devil:

And about Pak-Fa , you ask things you cant understand. No idot can calucate RCS from pics. And instrad of arguging idotically why not read my post again ???
Here I save your trouble and now at least read it or just dont quote me


But are u so naive that u keep on forgetting what happened with SU-30 TOT??
JUST ANSWER THIS

i have a reason to be pessimistic considering previous history,,but what makes u so optimistic man??

Regarding tot,why are u sure they are gonna teach u how to make single crystal blade and make u indipendent??
it dosen't work that way,if that was the case what will they sell in future?

pls don't be mad and make simple argument
 
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well sir dont get brain washed by your media..both countries had their fare share of provoking each other..india even went on for full war without provocation just take advantage of civil war in 1971..

still it rather surprise me that India think she can counter over 600+ J-11/J-10s with around 200 su30s and a few mig29s and mirages that havent been upgraded to carry decent BVR yet

india should have massively procured LCAs and increased it su 30.
in addition it should have increased the fifth gen programe..
operatiing too many types will be costly in long term with less effective

well dont worry to attck india china fas to cross the himalayas even if it has over powering numbers owr MKIs competent enof to guard owr land just the way 18 BLK52 + 60 earliest ones +50 JFT can guard your air space

so dont worry we already are prepairing for it about LCA your right dont worry we will get there too

thanks
 
Now pls see this rule in procurement for mmrca

DPP, Transfer of Technology Guidelines, 1(j)

Although, not desirable, some of the components/ process specifically developed by the OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers) for use in the manufacture of licensed product may be classified by them as `Proprietary’ and not included within the scope of TOT offered to the Production Agency.


I reiterate this will stop us acquiring any meaningful technology
 
But are u so naive that u keep on forgetting what happened with SU-30 TOT??
JUST ANSWER THIS

i have a reason to be pessimistic considering previous history,,but what makes u so optimistic man??

Regarding tot,why are u sure they are gonna teach u how to make single crystal blade and make u indipendent??
it dosen't work that way,if that was the case what will they sell in future?

pls don't be mad and make simple argument

India should just buy the plane and forget about TOT. It should develop technologies independently of military requirements. As I mentioned many times already, military need should be depend on what it could get instead of TOT requirements by DRDO.
 
India should just buy the plane and forget about TOT. It should develop technologies independently of military requirements. As I mentioned many times already, military need should be depend on what it could get instead of TOT requirements by DRDO.

Its hilarious to see chinese against the Rafale deal from day one. It only goes on to show how much they are afraid of Rafale.
 
I don't remember correctly (perhaps the then ACM Fali Nariman) when asked about F-16 and F-18 said something interesting. He observed that F-16 and F-18 though superb fighters are essentially 1980s technology and almost at the end of their development story with US moving towards Gen V fighters. So we can't expect much in future with these fighters to match with what PLAAF will bring to fore. India is investing for next 25-30 years and perhaps doesn't see F-16/18 as a match to Chinese hardware down the line. Grippen and Mig 35 didn't appeal owing to US components and Mig 35 being nothing new other than ASEA and thrust vectoring.
Secondly Rafale and Typhoon who made the cut are relatively new technologies and my guess is French reliability (with machines and international relations) won them the deal.

We discussed long back on some thread where some members pointed that if ToT goes to the plan, this gigantic deal will develop the Indian Aerospace industry big time, so may be it is an investment we are makig into the future.

Finally Su 35 is a mean machine (no doubts) but don't you feel having them would be redundant (with MKIs around) and FGFA likely to come in a decades time.
As a casual observer, i could see before hand Mig 35 not having a chance simply because IAF wants desperately to move from Russia only hardware even if it means paying premium price.

PS:

I'm one amongst you, so maybe we can do away with the word.:cheers:

well im no fan of USA but rafale is way to costli and looking at the french who will sell there mother if get the right price they even sold ships to russia my point is french cant be trusted perfect example was 1st gulf war when they gave iraqi source codes to USA do you think they will shy away in doing the same to india when they get petro dollars from arabs as arabs no matter what will give all there wepons to pakistan in case of war as they always did in past

my point is rafale brings nothing to us for us onli option is to speed up LCA program with help of israelies , USA & russia invest in LCA MK2 , buy SU 35 with latest upgrades and develop owr own industry to a level where we can compete with chinese as USA is not owr enemy Chinese , pakistanies are very predectible lookin at the past

1 rafale is more expensive in off the shelf & sales support than 2 SU35 with ASEA and latest wepons in the long run

Thanks
 
And can some rafale experts tell me about this??

I mean is the aesa not important at all?If yes why did we settle for this puny aesa??

Rafale News: Thales AESA RBE-2 modules pattern

And don't tell me useless source,the number has been counted from pictures

And putting further oil in fire its a fixed plate aesa with limited coverage
Look for captor aesa prototype for eurocopter

http://www.eurofighter.com/capabilities/technology/euroradar/angular-coverage.html

and never forget pakfa that rules them all with true 360 degree coverage

http://paralay.com/pakfa/t50 (142).jpg

And for all those laughing at su-35 just read the radar specs

http://www.niip.ru/eng/index.php?op...:-q-q-35&catid=8:2011-07-06-06-33-26&Itemid=8

Agreed its a pesa but still,,,,,and consider what a beast the N050 aesa would be when installed instead of this!!
 
Simple logic by a infantry solider carry " a assault rifle + side arm and knife " by your logic he should carry only assault rifle and more bullets .

We have MKIs we don't need Su-35. Simple as that.

In rafael deal we get more than plane. And main interest is tech , diversification of supply chain and making our industry better.

read my earliest post i know that Su series lags behind in strike role thats why i was asking for american ones and that too 80 that would be enof for strike role and US LGBs , HARM and other air to surface guided munations are cheaper and more leathel than the french and buying US stuff is good as they can produce at a much faster rate and are willing to give us whole supply and production know how and we can get owr hands on F35 for navy aswell + there electromagnrtick catapult system for owr carriers + there surplus LPDs & LADs , latest EW suites & Radars & SA,AA , HARM and other missiles not to mention surplus F16 which we can buy dirt cheap and upgrade to the latest level; that would be damn cheap and when that happens china wont have courage to breach owr airspace for at least 10 years buy then FGFA will be with us and hopefuly owr industry will also mature enof by then so we could produce AMCA aswell
 
And can some rafale experts tell me about this??

I mean is the aesa not important at all?If yes why did we settle for this puny aesa??

Rafale News: Thales AESA RBE-2 modules pattern

And don't tell me useless source,the number has been counted from pictures

The article itself says not sure. And its from 2011

And putting further oil in fire its a fixed plate aesa with limited coverage
Look for captor aesa prototype for eurocopter

Eurofighter: *Angular Coverage

and never forget pakfa that rules them all with true 360 degree coverage
Again its like comparing the Raptor to a hornet and saying lets compare. Please don't bring the PakFa into Rafale discussions.

http://paralay.com/pakfa/t50 (142).jpg

And for all those laughing at su-35 just read the radar specs

Radar control system "IRBIS-E" for Su-35 fighter

Agreed its a pesa but still,,,,,and consider what a beast the N050 aesa would be when installed instead of this!!

How many times do you need to be told that no other fighter besides the Rafale and Typhoon cleared the trials? Where does the question arise of the Su-35? For your question on the Mig 29 here you go. http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/210351-mig-29-aesa-upgrade-iaf.html Which is why I am requesting you, spend sometime on the forum. A month or so and you will realise there is a wealth of informaiton on the same. If every new forum member keeps saying provide link for topics which have been discussed to death, they will stop responding. I have lot of time in my hands, hence posting.

Spend a month just reading stuff. You will realise lot of your queries are answered.
 
How many times do you need to be told that no other fighter besides the Rafale and Typhoon cleared the trials? Where does the question arise of the Su-35? For your question on the Mig 29 here you go. http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/210351-mig-29-aesa-upgrade-iaf.html Which is why I am requesting you, spend sometime on the forum. A month or so and you will realise there is a wealth of informaiton on the same. If every new forum member keeps saying provide link for topics which have been discussed to death, they will stop responding. I have lot of time in my hands, hence posting.

Spend a month just reading stuff. You will realise lot of your queries are answered.

Can u answer in technical terms or not
When trials were held

1)rafale was flying with rbe2 pesa

2)typhoon with a pulse doppler captor radar(maybe pesa,not sure)

So to heel with clearing requirements,,,did that pesa perform better than mig 35 aesa then or f-16 aesa??

And that aesa will have just 850 t/r modules with a fixed antenna??
what would u say to that?

How many times do you need to be told that no other fighter besides the Rafale and Typhoon cleared the trials? Where does the question arise of the Su-35? For your question on the Mig 29 here you go. http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/210351-mig-29-aesa-upgrade-iaf.html Which is why I am requesting you, spend sometime on the forum. A month or so and you will realise there is a wealth of informaiton on the same. If every new forum member keeps saying provide link for topics which have been discussed to death, they will stop responding. I have lot of time in my hands, hence posting.

Spend a month just reading stuff. You will realise lot of your queries are answered.

And again i am the one posting links and proving stuff,u are just threatening me..........just disprove me!!
And the proposed captor-e aesa would have like 1400 t/r modules and full a to g function

If we are to spend 100 million atleast we ought to get better radar
 

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