Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[MST]

I think the final deal is going to be signed to mig 35 but then one more question
mig 35 is comparable to mig 29kub
sooo confusions again

Nothing is getting signed till end of 2014 as far as I am concerned neither Rafale nor Mig 35/29 (You can take it as a prediction or ignore)

Its no more a priority.

 

[Anurag Rathore]

Rafale chances are getting low coz of rupee depreciation and elections.

Lets forget this economy crises still its not a wise man's deal

Nothing is getting signed till end of 2014 as far as I am concerned neither Rafale nor Mig 35/29 (You can take it as a prediction or ignore)

Its no more a priority.

i totally agree to it it will be likely to be signed by 2015-16 and induction till 2022-25
till that time it will be outdated

 

[kaykay]

As far as sources $102 million is for MKI I cant link up as i joined this forum today but you can google it -102$ million for su 30 mki you will get enough answers
And Russians would also not hesitate to have TOT of mig 35 which is cheaper and in some terms better to the french counterpart

wrong mate! If you are talking about last batch of 42 aircrafts then those would be 'super sukhoi' standard capable of firing Brahmos and come directly from russia(won't be manufactured in India). Deal is not yet signed, but should be signed soon.

 

[Anurag Rathore]

problem is not F-35, its ToT. Can you expect America to give India key ToT with F-35?? No.

But collaborating in its devlopment will give us the tech i guess?















and if i am right it will be huge advantage for amca ..

wrong mate! If you are talking about last batch of 42 aircrafts then those would be 'super sukhoi' standard capable of firing Brahmos and come directly from russia(won't be manufactured in India). Deal is not yet signed, but should be signed soon.

You may be right and i may be wrong but you should google it once what i mentioned earlier

 

[sardar1987]

All right there is a question for all the so called china bashers here

1)Do you really think that they cannot develop an aesa radar or ols or spectra??Especially with the amount of money and manpower they have.
2)People will know after years to come what huge blunder inducting rafale was........refer to post 5
3)I am completely convinced that they are gonna field very advanced electronics in j-20 and that thing is a beauty in terms of stealth,only lesser than f-22(ya ya it has canards)
4)In terms of capability china has come a long way and in 10 years or so ppl are gonna realize it thats the point instead of downgrading them all the time

The fact is we need at least super sukhois,advanced su-35(with pakfa equipment) and fgfa itself to counter china,heck even j-10 has pesa radar,,,,,what do you expect for j-20 ?ghanta??

 

[MST]

problem is not F-35, its ToT. Can you expect America to give India key ToT with F-35?? No.

And Sir Why do you need TOT for a 5th Generation Aircraft.

Our industries haven't been able to absorb 3rd Gen technology and you are expecting them to absorb 5th Gen Technology.
Sir you are expecting way too much.

 

[sardar1987]

And Sir Why do you need TOT for a 5th Generation Aircraft.

Our industries haven't been able to absorb 3rd Gen technology and you are expecting them to absorb 5th Gen Technology.
Sir you are expecting way too much.

I used to laugh at iran's submarines and aeroplanes and whatnot but what are we without foreign help??any guesses? yes u are right-zilch and we have alienated our only friend(or partner) russia.We must sto playing these double games,you can't expect to milk both west and russia and not take a stand,not gonna happen

 

[Anurag Rathore]

I used to laugh at iran's submarines and aeroplanes and whatnot but what are we without foreign help??any guesses? yes u are right-zilch and we have alienated our only friend(or partner) russia.We must sto playing these double games,you can't expect to milk both west and russia and not take a stand,not gonna happen

That' the nehru led NAM policy!!

 

[DrSomnath999]

i can challenge anyone here that dassault is a wrong choice.

HuH!!

Bring it on

1)it will soon get the niip no50 aesa of pakfa fame and rafale's aesa cannot compete with it

it is still skeptical to even predict that it is going to be fitted in Mig 35 also
BTW Rafale's GaAS T/R modules are more mature in technology than russians who have just fielded the ZHUK AE radar which had quite problems during their MMRCA evaluations

2)the engines are huge and could be upgraded with product 117 at later dastlyte,compare that to tiny tot rafale engines

Who says MIG 35 is going to be upgraded with product 117
RAFALE"S engine have one of the finest FADEC engines .
it' IR signature managament is one of the finest till date now among all the 4th gen fighters
BTW planes T/W ratio is more important than plane's engines thrust itself.

3)the famed rafale infrared will be history as new ols-50 for pakfa will be based on qwip technology and would be comparable,if not better than rafale's

where the hell u get such facts .

Rafale 's FSO NG is under development &

Rafale FSO has an undisclosed detection of 120-130km

The french SOFRADIR is one of the finest IIR imaging seeker in this planet

4)rafale's missiles like meteor are unmatched no doubt but are damn costly

But not costlier than it's target

5)we cannot,i think integrate brahmos on rafale

Who says ??

Have u got a crystal ball which can tell future

it has been stated manytimes brahmos would be integrated in rafale in future

6)we will never get full tot,forget about it

LOLLZ

another B.S claim without any proper evidence

why do u think they wont .

7)the only thing special about rafale is passive detection spectra................

oh really nothing else
Are u sure.??

but in my opinion we should have started joint venture with russians on these gizmos than splashing for an aircraft which by the time its delivered(if at all) around 2016-17 will be easily surpassed by pakfa(production starts 2016) and whrn pakfa gets product 30 engine it would be zillions of time better than rafale,,,,so why rafale?????just go for pakfa or fgfa

Oh boy!!

Pakfa or Ffga wont be coming any where sooner than 2018

by that time our MIG 21 fleet would have been compleltely wiped out from crashing & only credible 4.5 gen plane we would be left would be SUkhoi 30MKI


& u think with that single plane we can withstand a 2 front war

YES it can be only possible in 1 scenario that is in your wet dreams

 

[kaykay]

And Sir Why do you need TOT for a 5th Generation Aircraft.

Our industries haven't been able to absorb 3rd Gen technology and you are expecting them to absorb 5th Gen Technology.
Sir you are expecting way too much.

well you are comparing apples with oranges. First consider the requirement of type of aircraft in MMRCA and you'll know the answer. Without ToT deal can't be done and yeah USA is never gonna give you tot of AESA and other key techs.

 

[sardar1987]

1)Dude there is difference between nam and now.The point is who is suffering from iran import ban-both india and iran as oil of a particular refinery could be from one source only and now with great difficulty we have started import from iraq as oil is similar but it has given bad impression as we have no spine to oppose sanctions

2)Weapons are always strategic affairs.Tell me one country having policy like india,of getting anything from anywhere forgetting the old equations.....none

3)I reaterate we should still start massive collaboration with russians on composites and electronics....as usa or west is never gonna gove us tot............can you argue with these points??

 

[Dillinger]

Ah a comparison between the rechristened Fulcrum and the Rafale. An exercise in futility to say the least. Perhaps if the posters would take cognizance of the reasons and particular operational requirements for which the Rafale was chosen then such questions and threads would not arise.

Furthermore there is absolutely zero scope for any ToT on the F-35 and similarly not a prayer in hell for any collaborative effort beyond perhaps being a risk sharing partner for India- either way even the software codes shall not be released to India leave alone any substantial ToT wrt avionics or any know how and know why.

Suffice to say that while factors may effect the Rafale deal, for its chosen role within the IAF's operational matrix and within its weight class its the best bet out there at the moment. Unless obviously someone wants to court the logistical nightmare of operating a Russian and an American 5th gen platform simultaneously.

 

[kaykay]

But collaborating in its devlopment will give us the tech i guess?















and if i am right it will be huge advantage for amca ..



You may be right and i may be wrong but you should google it once what i mentioned earlier

sir, I checked and I found that price is costly only for super sukhoi standard. And regarding F-35 collabration, it doesn't ensure that you are gonna get TOTs.

 

[sardar1987]

HuH!!

Bring it on

First of all your reply is full of arrogance

1)Who said mig-35 = rafale considering rafale costs more than double and mig 35 having liquid cooled aesa,not solid state

2)Can we really afford rafale in this current low growth scenario without the potential tot(all indications point to this )


it is still skeptical to even predict that it is going to be fitted in Mig 35 also
BTW Rafale's GaAS T/R modules are more mature in technology than russians who have just fielded the ZHUK AE radar which had quite problems during their MMRCA evaluations



Who says MIG 35 is going to be upgraded with product 117
RAFALE"S engine have one of the finest FADEC engines .
it' IR signature managament is one of the finest till date now among all the 4th gen fighters
BTW planes T/W ratio is more important than plane's engines thrust itself.


where the hell u get such facts .

Rafale 's FSO NG is under development &

Rafale FSO has an undisclosed detection of 120-130km

The french SOFRADIR is one of the finest IIR imaging seeker in this planet



But not costlier than it's target




Who says ??

Have u got a crystal ball which can tell future

it has been stated manytimes brahmos would be integrated in rafale in future




LOLLZ

another B.S claim without any proper evidence

why do u think they wont .


oh really nothing else
Are u sure.??



Oh boy!!

Pakfa or Ffga wont be coming any where sooner than 2018

by that time our MIG 21 fleet would have been compleltely wiped out from crashing & only credible 4.5 gen plane we would be left would be SUkhoi 30MKI


& u think with that single plane we can withstand a 2 front war

YES it can be only possible in 1 scenario that is in your wet dreams

First of all your reply is full of arrogance

1)Who said mig-35 = rafale considering rafale costs more than double and mig 35 having liquid cooled aesa,not solid state

2)Can we really afford rafale in this current low growth scenario without the potential tot(all indications point to this )

3)can rafale aesa compete with no50 aesa........no

4)no of radars in pakfa= one aesa,,2 side arrays and 2 l band and possibly one on the tail
can rafale counter that

5)stealth-better than rafale

6)engine-way better

about su-35

we all know that pakfa systems will eventually come to mki and su-35 so what will be better

a)qwip infrared and aesa equiped su-35
b)rafale

your turn

Read the post carefully...........product 117 is for su-35 not mig 35 and don't make jingoistic claims of rafale being the best.Once su-35 gets an aesa and qwip infrared in 3-4 years whats in rafale to counter it??

 

[Indo-guy]

problem is not F-35, its ToT. Can you expect America to give India key ToT with F-35?? No.

US is totally unreliable ...too many strings attached . and policy shift in Washington can occur overnight ...

big NO to US ...when such strategically important area is concerned .

Russia and France are the two most and only reliable friendly countries that India can count upon .

But Rafael does look costly . But I hope when it comes to such big project IAF and Defense ministry must have weighed all pros and cons including near future security scenario in our neighborhood.