Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[Anurag Rathore]

In this modern era of Fifth gen fighters,India aqquring huge no. of 4.5 gen fighters which are inferior to the modern trend of aircrafts.Is India making a Blunder By this much large no.It should reduce the orders of this costly aircraft and should use money for further programs?

Or raffale is Good Choice and India should Increase Its no. to 189!!

Peace!!

 

[kaykay]

India will make a balance between 5th Gen aircrafts and 4.5th gen aircrafts in future. While we sign orders of Rafale this year, we will get FGFA in future too.
PS: operating 5th gen aircrafts in very large no is not possible considering operating cost.

 

[Anurag Rathore]

India will make a balance between 5th Gen aircrafts and 4.5th gen aircrafts in future. While we sign orders of Rafale this year, we will get FGFA in future too.
PS: operating 5th gen aircrafts in very large no is not possible considering operating cost.

But don't you think we are operating highly priced mki's and tejas both mk and mk2 variants on the way.
I know that 5 gen programs are costly
but don't you think orders placed are huge in no.
we can half the orders and in remaining money can get couple of bombers for time being till Drdo AURA is inducted..

 

[kaykay]

But don't you think we are operating highly priced mki's and tejas both mk and mk2 variants on the way.
I know that 5 gen programs are costly
but don't you think orders placed are huge in no.
we can half the orders and in remaining money can get couple of bombers for time being till Drdo AURA is inducted..

First of all MKI is not very costly considering aircrafts with similar capabilities(super sukhois will be a bit costly but only because of additional capabilities). Now coming to Tejas, Its a totally different thing because amidst all the delays and project prise esclation, it's still a milestone for us because we gain experience on this which would be helpful in future of Indian fighters projects.
And when it comes to FGFA then I guess 214 no. Is good and no need to decrease it further because we need to achieve a minimum 39 sqdn strength in future.

 

[sardar1987]

Now i have seen the specs of rafale and all other comparable 4/4.5 generation aircrafts and i can challenge anyone here that dassault is a wrong choice.No doubt its a good craft certainly better than mki but is it worth 100-120 million a piece??Answer is totally no.We should have invested in zhuk -ae,ols after ordering mig 35 or have gone for su-35 simply because
1)it will soon get the niip no50 aesa of pakfa fame and rafale's aesa cannot compete with it
2)the engines are huge and could be upgraded with product 117 at later dastlyte,compare that to tiny tot rafale engines
3)the famed rafale infrared will be history as new ols-50 for pakfa will be based on qwip technology and would be comparable,if not better than rafale's
4)rafale's missiles like meteor are unmatched no doubt but are damn costly
5)we cannot,i think integrate brahmos on rafale
6)we will never get full tot,forget about it
7)the only thing special about rafale is passive detection spectra................but in my opinion we should have started joint venture with russians on these gizmos than splashing for an aircraft which by the time its delivered(if at all) around 2016-17 will be easily surpassed by pakfa(production starts 2016) and whrn pakfa gets product 30 engine it would be zillions of time better than rafale,,,,so why rafale?????just go for pakfa or fgfa

 

[Anurag Rathore]

First of all MKI is not very costly considering aircrafts with similar capabilities(super sukhois will be a bit costly but only because of additional capabilities). Now coming to Tejas, Its a totally different thing because amidst all the delays and project prise esclation, it's still a milestone for us because we gain experience on this which would be helpful in future of Indian fighters projects.
And when it comes to FGFA then I guess 214 no. Is good and no need to decrease it further because we need to achieve a minimum 39 sqdn strength in future.

I think $102 million per Unit is quite costly.I never criticize lca as it has state of art tech like digital fly by fire and much more and it was a good practice ,it is far more capable then Pakistani pride jf17 but my question lies the acquisition of 126 planes and order is likely to increase by 189 will take near about 6-7 years and till that time our fifth gen programs will be taking shape.We can reduce the orders and fasten the fifth gen projects.We can have double benefit from this..

 

[MST]

It looks more and more certain that this govt won't be signing the Rafale Deal. There are two main reasons for this.

1) There is less than one year left for Elections. This govt with a record of one corruption popping up every one month is not going to risk such a huge deal so close to the elections. Antony Doesn't have the balls. His record is pathetic as far as procurement is concerned. And now so close to elections he will chicken out for sure.

2) Indian economy is now in gutters (at least for short term) and with CAD so high the GOI will rather put all the money they have in populist stuff like Food Security Bill. Chuti#$ Govt cares only for getting re elected. They don't care about the Country. So don't expect them to put the aircraft aquisition on high priority.

Even if the deal by some wonder gets signed in the last 6 months of the Govt it will most likely be reveiwed by the next Govt whoever they are.

As far I am concerned Rafale missed the bus when they wasted time harrasing HAL. They should have signed the deal 6 months ago. Now in all likely hood with the end of Indian interest in Rafale it will also mean a not so spectacular run for the plane itself.

 

[Anurag Rathore]

Now i have seen the specs of rafale and all other comparable 4/4.5 generation aircrafts and i can challenge anyone here that dassault is a wrong choice.No doubt its a good craft certainly better than mki but is it worth 100-120 million a piece??Answer is totally no.We should have invested in zhuk -ae,ols after ordering mig 35 or have gone for su-35 simply because
1)it will soon get the niip no50 aesa of pakfa fame and rafale's aesa cannot compete with it
2)the engines are huge and could be upgraded with product 117 at later dastlyte,compare that to tiny tot rafale engines
3)the famed rafale infrared will be history as new ols-50 for pakfa will be based on qwip technology and would be comparable,if not better than rafale's
4)rafale's missiles like meteor are unmatched no doubt but are damn costly
5)we cannot,i think integrate brahmos on rafale
6)we will never get full tot,forget about it
7)the only thing special about rafale is passive detection spectra................but in my opinion we should have started joint venture with russians on these gizmos than splashing for an aircraft which by the time its delivered(if at all) around 2016-17 will be easily surpassed by pakfa(production starts 2016) and whrn pakfa gets product 30 engine it would be zillions of time better than rafale,,,,so why rafale?????just go for pakfa or fgfa

I don't cricize raffale but my point it why not f35 its a generation ahead,it has short comings but america is dependent for next 2 decades on this plane so all shortcomings will be removed,and by the time if we get raffales it will be likely 2022-25

So why not go for cheaper mig 35 and invest order money one other projects..

It looks more and more certain that this govt won't be signing the Rafale Deal. There are two main reasons for this.

1) There is less than one year left for Elections. This govt with a record of one corruption popping up every one month is not going to risk such a huge deal so close to the elections. Antony Doesn't have the balls. His record is pathetic as far as procurement is concerned. And now so close to elections he will chicken out for sure.

2) Indian economy is now in gutters (at least for short term) and with CAD so high the GOI will rather put all the money they have in populist stuff like Food Security Bill. Chuti#$ Govt cares only for getting re elected. They don't care about the Country. So don't expect them to put the aircraft aquisition on high priority.

Even if the deal by some wonder gets signed in the last 6 months of the Govt it will most likely be reveiwed by the next Govt whoever they are.

As far I am concerned Rafale missed the bus when they wasted time harrasing HAL. They should have signed the deal 6 months ago. Now in all likely hood with the end of Indian interest in Rafale it will also mean a not so spectacular run for the plane itself.

I think the final deal is going to be signed to mig 35 but then one more question
mig 35 is comparable to mig 29kub
sooo confusions again

 

[kaykay]

I think $102 million per Unit is quite costly.I never criticize lca as it has state of art tech like digital fly by fire and much more and it was a good practice ,it is far more capable then Pakistani pride jf17 but my question lies the acquisition of 126 planes and order is likely to increase by 189 will take near about 6-7 years and till that time our fifth gen programs will be taking shape.We can reduce the orders and fasten the fifth gen projects.We can have double benefit from this..

$100 Million is for Super Sukhois and not MKIs and Its totally worth it. And considering Rafale, don't forget we are going to get ToT along with a good jet too and which could be helpful in AMCA and future projects.

 

[ziaulislam]

AN F-35 At same cost would have given india an edge over china and pakistan both
with rafale they will neutralize ppakistan but china has ability to counter it

 

[sardar1987]

You know i am averse to anything american or west for the matter simply because we

1)will get downgraded product

2)no tot for sure

3)sanctions(remember 74 and 99)

4)strategic importance-don't alienate russia

5)russia can help india the same way it once helped chinese but india is playing a vicious double game here and russia may strike back any time,its totally logical,Btw can anyone here counter my points......i guessed it....no

 

[Anurag Rathore]

$100 Million is for Super Sukhois and not MKIs and Its totally worth it. And considering Rafale, don't forget we are going to get ToT along with a good jet too and which could be helpful in AMCA and future projects.

As far as sources $102 million is for MKI I cant link up as i joined this forum today but you can google it -102$ million for su 30 mki you will get enough answers
And Russians would also not hesitate to have TOT of mig 35 which is cheaper and in some terms better to the french counterpart

 

[rockstarIN]

Rafale chances are getting low coz of rupee depreciation and elections.

 

[Anurag Rathore]

AN F-35 At same cost would have given india an edge over china and pakistan both
with rafale they will neutralize ppakistan but china has ability to counter it

Presently neither china nor pak has capability to counter it but till the time it is likely to inducted china will have an edge

 

[kaykay]

AN F-35 At same cost would have given india an edge over china and pakistan both
with rafale they will neutralize ppakistan but china has ability to counter it

problem is not F-35, its ToT. Can you expect America to give India key ToT with F-35?? No.