Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[sardar1987]

. You cannot pinpoint which off the shelf. And you cannot pinpoint parameters. And now when I ask you pinpoint you rant off about everything. Dude! Seriously.

Ok let me try and entertain myself more. What is R&D in your opinion? And let's stick to defence :-D You claim nothing is happening in R&D. Then what is Kaveri? What is the Arihant? What is the IAC? What is the Agni programme? What is the composites program? What is PARAM? What is the work on SLVs? Do you know what happens in IISc? Do you know what happens in BARC or Kalpakam?

Regarding your comment on cryogenic. Do you have any idea how many countries have cryogenic technologies? Let alone a space program? Do you think the think about going to the moon happened without R&D?

Seriously dude. You are being humped on every point. Just stop brain farting. The R&D in that article is comparative.

If u are so intent post some links........u can't cause we haven't done anything so great that we start chest thumping

And pls there is a reason most of the iitans are out of this country on first opportunity,,,,,

 

[surya kiran]

If u are so intent post some links........u can't cause we haven't done anything so great that we start chest thumping

And pls there is a reason most of the iitans are out of this country on first opportunity,,,,,

:-D No parameters. Just go to the relevant thread in the India Defence section. There are more than 400 pages regarding all your queries. So piece of advice stop farting and start reading.

P.S : Parameters please? Else stop farting on this thread.

 

[sardar1987]

You really believe a business magazine for articles related to defence? Ok now let me give you a small head's up.

1. Read more.
2. Like I said, could you comment on the programs pointed out. Then juxtapose it with similar programs globally.
3. Read more.

P.S : Also, am still waiting for the parameters. Or was that just another brain fart? And believe me. I am being real patient with somebody who has been farting all over the forum on all threads with ZERO information only opinions. And refuses to read and learn.

P.S again : Parameters pleas?

ITS straightforward

u need to spend money to get something

now look at this graph,what does this tell u?in that article?

Don't shy away from points i am making.........please

And u have failed to provide me one example of innovation
it pains me that even tata nano engine is not indian.are u happy at this??

Things have to change but if we keep on thinking nothing is wrong we have a bleak future dude
I am sorry if i offended any of u but i believe in speaking truth

ITS straightforward

u need to spend money to get something

now look at this graph,what does this tell u?in that article?

Don't shy away from points i am making.........please

And u have failed to provide me one example of innovation
it pains me that even tata nano engine is not indian.are u happy at this??

Things have to change but if we keep on thinking nothing is wrong we have a bleak future dude
I am sorry if i offended any of u but i believe in speaking truth

And regarding ur opinions now am convinced that nothing is gonna change for better,if u can't admit problem how do we even conceive solution

you don't

 

[surya kiran]

ITS straightforward

u need to spend money to get something

now look at this graph,what does this tell u?in that article?

Don't shy away from points i am making.........please

And u have failed to provide me one example of innovation
it pains me that even tata nano engine is not indian.are u happy at this??

Things have to change but if we keep on thinking nothing is wrong we have a bleak future dude
I am sorry if i offended any of u but i believe in speaking truth

I am asking you 2 things and you are not helping

1. Parameters
2. Read the relevant thread on the Indian Defence Section. I am not spoon feeding you.

P.S : Parameters.

 

[sardar1987]

As far as isro goes its an exception but even they have a puny budget of i billion dollars per year??
They have to make and launch sattelites and do research in that only,thats why we need diff approach

at least agree on this

I am asking you 2 things and you are not helping

1. Parameters
2. Read the relevant thread on the Indian Defence Section. I am not spoon feeding you.

P.S : Parameters.

I have read everything there is to read
parameters??of what?

There is one engine that we have developed though

WANKEL ENGINE for nishant ..............

 

[sardar1987]

Sardar Speaks: INDIAN DOOM:FOOD SECURITY BILL

 

[surya kiran]

As far as isro goes its an exception but even they have a puny budget of i billion dollars per year??
They have to make and launch sattelites and do research in that only,thats why we need diff approach

at least agree on this



I have read everything there is to read
parameters??of what?

There is one engine that we have developed though

WANKEL ENGINE for nishant ..............

You said the Su-35 instead of the Mig 29 would be better for the IAF. Assuming you meant instead of the Rafale we should go for this. Could you please provide parameters and logic for the same?

You have read everything there is to read and still you fart. Amnesia I tell you.

So could you enlighten me on which parts of the programs, I mentioned earlier, were not R&D or had no R&D?

So the only thing involved in R&D is developing an engine is it?

 

[sardar1987]

You said the Su-35 instead of the Mig 29 would be better for the IAF. Assuming you meant instead of the Rafale we should go for this. Could you please provide parameters and logic for the same?

You have read everything there is to read and still you fart. Amnesia I tell you.

So could you enlighten me on which parts of the programs, I mentioned earlier, were not R&D or had no R&D?

So the only thing involved in R&D is developing an engine is it?

India's forte is in its services like software and medicine
We have nothing in terms of manufacturing,and ur laughing isn't gonna change that
Come to me when india designs atleast nano's engine

As far as other things are there regarding su-35.............i told u we should integrate n050 aesa in it and israeli ew suite.

Where am i dreaming in this?
We will save 40 million per plane and the money may be spent on engine tech etc

Its all strategy dude,u have to cut corners somewhere and right now we are not spending in research which is bad

I mean are u happy with only wankel engine.good for u.

And can u list indigenous components for ins vikrant?

 

[ziaulislam]

Man don't brag here.If u make anything indigenously pls post a link here of ur agency's website.

Go to drdo website and u will see the work being done.u can download newsletters and technology papers
do u have any proof from ur side.if yes then post it

If no-then keep quiet

DRDO



Don't talk subjective stuff here,post links or accept u know nothing



The situation has changed mate............we were gonna sign deal 2 years ago with delivery starting 2014.
Now its pushed back to 2014 (most probably) and delivery starting in 2017-18 and cost going up 10 % due to falling rupee

Agreed we can use forex reserves to pay but we can't use forex reserves for everything

a regular member will wont ask of links for everything, every body knows what we make export or import..every body knows what chinese arecapable too. what i said that even i post links you will simply laugh it out

 

[sardar1987]

my example shivalik class frigate

Guided-missile frigate
Displacement: 6,200 tonnes (6,100 long tons; 6,800 short tons) full load[3]
Length: 142.5 m (468 ft)[4]
Beam: 16.9 m (55 ft)
Draught: 4.5 m (15 ft)
Installed power: 2 × Pielstick 16 PA6 STC Diesel engines
15,200 shp (11,300 kW)
2 × GE LM2500+
33,600 shp (25,100 kW)
Propulsion: boost turbines in CODOG configuration.
Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)[5]
22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph) (diesel engines)
Complement: 257 (35 officers)[2]
Sensors and
processing systems: 1 × MR-760 Fregat M2EM 3-D radar
4 × MR-90 Orekh radar
1 × Elta EL/M-2238 STAR
2 × Elta EL/M 2221 STGR
1 × BEL APARNA
HUMSA (hull-mounted sonar array)
ATAS/Thales Sintra towed array systems
Electronic warfare
& decoys: BEL Ajanta electronic warfare suite
Armament:

1 × 3.0-inch Otobreda, naval gun
8 × VLS launched Klub, anti-ship cruise missiles
or
8 × VLS launched BrahMos, anti-ship cruise missiles
2 × 2 DTA-53-956 torpedo launchers
2 × RBU-6000 (RPK-8) rocket launchers
Shtil-1 missile system, with 24 short to medium range (30 km (19 mi)) missiles
Barak SAM-launcher CIWS
2 × AK-630 CIWS
Aircraft carried: 2 × HAL Dhruv or Sea King Mk. 42B helicopters.(For Shivalik and Sahyadri
2 × Kamov Ka-31 helicopters.


NOW READ THE LIST AND TELL ME WHATS INDIAN IN IT??

tHEN LAUGH AT ME

my example shivalik class frigate

Guided-missile frigate
Displacement: 6,200 tonnes (6,100 long tons; 6,800 short tons) full load[3]
Length: 142.5 m (468 ft)[4]
Beam: 16.9 m (55 ft)
Draught: 4.5 m (15 ft)
Installed power: 2 × Pielstick 16 PA6 STC Diesel engines
15,200 shp (11,300 kW)
2 × GE LM2500+
33,600 shp (25,100 kW)
Propulsion: boost turbines in CODOG configuration.
Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)[5]
22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph) (diesel engines)
Complement: 257 (35 officers)[2]
Sensors and
processing systems: 1 × MR-760 Fregat M2EM 3-D radar
4 × MR-90 Orekh radar
1 × Elta EL/M-2238 STAR
2 × Elta EL/M 2221 STGR
1 × BEL APARNA
HUMSA (hull-mounted sonar array)
ATAS/Thales Sintra towed array systems
Electronic warfare
& decoys: BEL Ajanta electronic warfare suite
Armament:

1 × 3.0-inch Otobreda, naval gun
8 × VLS launched Klub, anti-ship cruise missiles
or
8 × VLS launched BrahMos, anti-ship cruise missiles
2 × 2 DTA-53-956 torpedo launchers
2 × RBU-6000 (RPK-8) rocket launchers
Shtil-1 missile system, with 24 short to medium range (30 km (19 mi)) missiles
Barak SAM-launcher CIWS
2 × AK-630 CIWS
Aircraft carried: 2 × HAL Dhruv or Sea King Mk. 42B helicopters.(For Shivalik and Sahyadri
2 × Kamov Ka-31 helicopters.


NOW READ THE LIST AND TELL ME WHATS INDIAN IN IT??

tHEN LAUGH AT ME

and pls don't tell me brahmos...

a regular member will wont ask of links for everything, every body knows what we make export or import..every body knows what chinese arecapable too. what i said that even i post links you will simply laugh it out

simple answer--u make nothing

 

[sardar1987]

ins vikrant


Displacement: 40,000 tons
Length: 262 m (860 ft)
Beam: 60 m (200 ft)
Draught: 8.4 m (28 ft)
Depth: 25.6 m (84 ft)
Installed power: 4 × General Electric LM2500+ gas turbines
Propulsion: Two shafts
Speed: 28 knots (52 km/h; 32 mph)
Range: 8,000 nautical miles (15,000 km; 9,200 mi)[1]
Crew: 1,400 (including air crew)
Sensors and
processing systems: Selex RAN-40L
Electronic warfare
& decoys: C/D band early air-warning radar[1]
Armament:

4 × Otobreda 76 mm
LR SAM systems with a multi-function radar[1]
CIWS
Aircraft carried:

12 × Mikoyan MiG-29K
8 × HAL Tejas
10 × Kamov Ka-31 or Westland Sea King
Aviation facilities: 10,000 m2 (110,000 sq ft) flight deck


whats indian except steel and kirloskar air conditioning,land t switch boards and some pumps by bel???

 

[sardar1987]

AND befor u become too happy on even steel read this

"And so the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) took up a project in 1999 to develop and mass-produce warship grade steel. Russia provided the chemical formula of warship steel called ABA, but the challenge in steelmaking is to translate science into manufacture."

AND befor u become too happy on even steel read this

"And so the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) took up a project in 1999 to develop and mass-produce warship grade steel. Russia provided the chemical formula of warship steel called ABA, but the challenge in steelmaking is to translate science into manufacture."

******* drdo took like 10 years even after formula to manufacture stell..........now this is fucked up ****

 

[sardar1987]

If Indian companies don't spend on R&D, they will die - Rediff.com Business
India lagging behind in R&D | Business Line
Drug makers pay lip service to R&D in India | Business Standard
Why India lags behind most countries in terms of annual R&D spends and patent filings - Business Today
End of R&D - The Hindu

If Indian companies don't spend on R&D, they will die - Rediff.com Business
India lagging behind in R&D | Business Line
Drug makers pay lip service to R&D in India | Business Standard
Why India lags behind most countries in terms of annual R&D spends and patent filings - Business Today
End of R&D - The Hindu

Not related to defence but its same everywhere....in defence its even lower as we spend only like 2-3% of defence budget

 

[Abingdonboy]

Sure but pls discard my points on merit,,,,,,when the evaluation was done we were rich and growing at 8%

Now we will not make to even 5
So who will pay and if the deal goes through then forget amca or for the matter kaveri etc

we simply have no money right now

Mate the economic situation isn't great but it is far from the doomsday situation you are painting. India is still growing at 5-6%- if this isn't growth I don't know what is. The next 18 months may not be great but mid to long term India's economic growth forecasts look very strong. Indians might be apprehensive but a basic economic principal is that consumers/general public behave and act from a position of ignorance- they're not all economists. And in India this is going to be even more pronounced outside the middle class.

A lot of this is down to confidence and if one keeps talking India down it is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Coming specifically to the MMRCA- the funds are there and when the cost of the purchase will be spread over a decade if not longer then what's the big deal? India defence spending is <2% of GDP and the defence budget for 2013-14 has been cleared with a significant capital procurement budget.

 

[sardar1987]

Now will u ignore even idsa article???

India

Mate the economic situation isn't great but it is far from the doomsday situation you are painting. India is still growing at 5-6%- if this isn't growth I don't know what is. The next 18 months may not be great but mid to long term India's economic growth forecasts look very strong. Indians might be apprehensive but a basic economic principal is that consumers/general public behave and act from a position of ignorance- they're not all economists. And in India this is going to be even more pronounced outside the middle class.

A lot of this is down to confidence and if one keeps talking India down it is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Coming specifically to the MMRCA- the funds are there and when the cost of the purchase will be spread over a decade if not longer then what's the big deal? India defence spending is <2% of GDP and the defence budget for 2013-14 has been cleared with a significant capital procurement budget.

http://www.idsa.in/idsacomments/IndiasDefenceBudget2013-14_lkbehera_040313

Mate the economic situation isn't great but it is far from the doomsday situation you are painting. India is still growing at 5-6%- if this isn't growth I don't know what is. The next 18 months may not be great but mid to long term India's economic growth forecasts look very strong. Indians might be apprehensive but a basic economic principal is that consumers/general public behave and act from a position of ignorance- they're not all economists. And in India this is going to be even more pronounced outside the middle class.

A lot of this is down to confidence and if one keeps talking India down it is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Coming specifically to the MMRCA- the funds are there and when the cost of the purchase will be spread over a decade if not longer then what's the big deal? India defence spending is <2% of GDP and the defence budget for 2013-14 has been cleared with a significant capital procurement budget.

I want r and d .defence spending is just fine but buying everything is gonna **** us up

Please read the above comment on steel for vikrant and tell me are u not angry and frowning??