Is China's 'F-16' Now Obsolete? | The National Interest

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

F-2 looks a lot more like F-16.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-2

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

LOL.. You just a pathetic sourgrape that cant admit the rising superior China airforce, stupid idiot.

what i actually said: "China's development of jet fighters is really impressive. They seem to have overcome their engine problems (e.g. for the J20) and are well placed to overcome Russia as the second most advanced air power in the world in the next decade or two."


i see why you have -24 red ratings, very emotional, go eat dimsum and calm down

 

[rott]

the difference is that Syria is contested airspace with other airforces present in a small area (Russian, American, Syrian, Israeli)

those cavemen also have quite advanced MANPAD systems from the USA

Come on buddy. Be realistic.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

the difference is that Syria is contested airspace with other airforces present in a small area (Russian, American, Syrian, Israeli)

Contested airspace?! When did Russian and American jets start shooting at each other? Of course Syria isn't contested airspace. Unless by "contested" you mean Russia has been practicing radioing American aircraft.

 

[ptldM3]

China is already the 2nd most advanced air power on the planet.

It's small fleet of J-20s can mess up hundreds of Russia's 4th generation fighters by themselves.

China is more advanced compared to Russia but still buys Russian aircraft and relies on Russian engines and has to hire Kamarov to built the WZ-10 (god only knows what else Russia has helped China develop or what they stole from copying and espionage.


As for J-20, as if you know anything about it or how it would match up in the real world against Russian aircraft, pilots, tactics or how AWACS, SAMs, EW aircraft, intelligence and how military planning would fit it.

LOL... You call that relevant experience for a real modern air warfare?

Typical lousy excuse of using no war experience as reason. If by your means, I think you will naively think Sri Lanka Airforce can defeat China Air Force?

Countries like Russia has made hundreds of imporvments and changes to doctrine because of the vast expirence gained in Syria as well as Georgia. China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft.

According to US generals Syria it is the most difficult area in the world to operate because of the electronic warfare environment. You have Russia, United States, Israel, Britain, Turkey, ext jamming aircraft and communications. There is a lot of naval and ground activity too. Not long ago Russia twarted a British submarine from launching cruise missiles and the US dispatch EW aircraft to disrupt a Russia ships and aircraft from following the British submarine. Aircraft have also locked on to other aircraft over Syria or across the border. Has China had advanced MANPADs, launched at its aircraft? Has China had to fly thousands of combat sorties at a moments notice in support of ground forces while being jammed and and monitored by NATO?

Sure dropping bombs on ISIS is "vast" air combat experience.
The other point has already been answered.

Japan is so frightened by arrival of J-20 that it is buying F-35 and
developing a 5th gen fighter by itself.

Stop embarrassing yourself. A US generals have stated Syria is the most challenging environment in the world to operate because of heavy electronic warfare activity. Russia has stated they made hundreds of improvements to equipment and dectrine because of the experiences gained in Syria. US aircraft have been "disabled" by Russian jamming and it's not just Russia but Israel, Turkey, United States, Britain, France, etc all operate over Syria from the air and ground as well as use naval assets to launch strikes or collect information. Often naval strikes are disrupted by submarines and EW aircraft.

China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft. China can never replicate any of these experiences in the real world.

Contested airspace?! When did Russian and American jets start shooting at each other? Of course Syria isn't contested airspace. Unless by "contested" you mean Russia has been practicing radioing American aircraft.

Read my explanation I gave to others. You clearly are ignorant in what is going on in Syria and how real world operates. It's the most heavily jammed airspace in the world. Cruise missiles are launched often, many aircraft have been shot down, submarines and EW warfare aircraft stalk one another. Ect Has China had advanced MANPADs, launched at its aircraft? Has China had to fly thousands of combat sorties at a moments notice in support of ground forces while being jammed and and monitored by NATO? Syria is the most challenging environment in the world to operate it. But keep playing it off, US and Russian Generals know more about it then you even US pilots are having a difficult time in Syria.

 

[UserUnknown2025]

China is more advanced compared to Russia but still buys Russian aircraft and relies on Russian engines and has to hire Kamarov to built the WZ-10 (god only knows what else Russia has helped China develop or what they stole from copying and espionage.


As for J-20, as if you know anything about it or how it would match up in the real world against Russian aircraft, pilots, tactics or how AWACS, SAMs, EW aircraft, intelligence and how military planning would fit it.








Countries like Russia has made hundreds of imporvments and changes to doctrine because of the vast expirence gained in Syria as well as Georgia. China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft.

According to US generals Syria it is the most difficult area in the world to operate because of the electronic warfare environment. You have Russia, United States, Israel, Britain, Turkey, ext jamming aircraft and communications. There is a lot of naval and ground activity too. Not long ago Russia twarted a British submarine from launching cruise missiles and the US dispatch EW aircraft to disrupt a Russia ships and aircraft from following the British submarine. Aircraft have also locked on to other aircraft over Syria or across the border.







Stop embarrassing yourself. A US generals have stated Syria is the most challenging environment in the world to operate because of heavy electronic warfare activity. Russia has stated they made hundreds of improvements to equipment and dectrine because of the experiences gained in Syria. US aircraft have been "disabled" by Russian jamming and it's not just Russia but Israel, Turkey, United States, Britain, France, etc all operate over Syria from the air and ground as well as use naval assets to launch strikes or collect information. Often naval strikes are disrupted by submarines and EW aircraft.

China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft. China can never replicate any of these experiences in the real world.




Read my explanation I gave to others. You clearly are ignorant in what is going on in Syria and how real world. It's the most heavily jammed airspace in the world. Cruise missiles are launched often, many aircraft have been shot down, submarines and EW warfare aircraft stalk one another. Ect

I sincerely hope this experience will enable Russia to succesfully intercept all cruise missiles next time. I am certain that Russia has learned a lot. I hope China can learn a lot in the upcoming military exercise with Russia.

 

[ptldM3]

I sincerely hope this experience will enable Russia to succesfully intercept all cruise missiles next time. I am certain that Russia has learned a lot. I hope China can learn a lot in the upcoming military exercise with Russia.

It's very difficult to intercept cruise missiles due to their flight profile. Russia has only trained Syrian personnel and stalked British and French submarines and ships as to get them to abort strikes which the British did.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

China has superb technology. J-20. J-10B. Come on man. You gotta admit it even if you are a China hater.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

x

Finally an objective response based in reality not in jingoism.

China has superb technology. J-20. J-10B. Come on man. You gotta admit it even if you are a China hater.

Nobody is denying that. Some of us are just noting that China doesn't have the practical experience of Russia/US to be able to say that it has a superior airforce to Russia yet.

 

[Daniel808]

China is more advanced compared to Russia but still buys Russian aircraft and relies on Russian engines and has to hire Kamarov to built the WZ-10 (god only knows what else Russia has helped China develop or what they stole from copying and espionage.


As for J-20, as if you know anything about it or how it would match up in the real world against Russian aircraft, pilots, tactics or how AWACS, SAMs, EW aircraft, intelligence and how military planning would fit it.








Countries like Russia has made hundreds of imporvments and changes to doctrine because of the vast expirence gained in Syria as well as Georgia. China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft.

According to US generals Syria it is the most difficult area in the world to operate because of the electronic warfare environment. You have Russia, United States, Israel, Britain, Turkey, ext jamming aircraft and communications. There is a lot of naval and ground activity too. Not long ago Russia twarted a British submarine from launching cruise missiles and the US dispatch EW aircraft to disrupt a Russia ships and aircraft from following the British submarine. Aircraft have also locked on to other aircraft over Syria or across the border. Has China had advanced MANPADs, launched at its aircraft? Has China had to fly thousands of combat sorties at a moments notice in support of ground forces while being jammed and and monitored by NATO?







Stop embarrassing yourself. A US generals have stated Syria is the most challenging environment in the world to operate because of heavy electronic warfare activity. Russia has stated they made hundreds of improvements to equipment and dectrine because of the experiences gained in Syria. US aircraft have been "disabled" by Russian jamming and it's not just Russia but Israel, Turkey, United States, Britain, France, etc all operate over Syria from the air and ground as well as use naval assets to launch strikes or collect information. Often naval strikes are disrupted by submarines and EW aircraft.

China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft. China can never replicate any of these experiences in the real world.




Read my explanation I gave to others. You clearly are ignorant in what is going on in Syria and how real world operates. It's the most heavily jammed airspace in the world. Cruise missiles are launched often, many aircraft have been shot down, submarines and EW warfare aircraft stalk one another. Ect Has China had advanced MANPADs, launched at its aircraft? Has China had to fly thousands of combat sorties at a moments notice in support of ground forces while being jammed and and monitored by NATO? Syria is the most challenging environment in the world to operate it. But keep playing it off, US and Russian Generals know more about it then you even US pilots are having a difficult time in Syria.

Yes, I am agree with you that China still one step behind russia regarding Turbofan Engine, especially TVC Engine.
But if we talk about Warships Engine, China is much step ahead in Front of Russia. That's what you need to admit too @ptldM3

About Kamov Cooperation with CAIC to Design Z-10, that's happen in 90s. Yes, China is back then in that time. But, that's only design, Radar Avionics and Weapons System is using their own technology (and we still don't talk about China's Better Avionics and Radar system compare to Russia)


China buy SU-35 because that's the requirement from ROSOBORON if China want to get 40N6 on their S-400 SAM. That's why China only buy 24 unit SU-35 not hundreds.
SU-35 still using less Advanced PESA Radar, mostly China's Modern Fighter now already using more Advanced AESA Radar.
In cold war time, US also buy many Soviet Aircraft for Test & Evaluation, but that doesn't mean they cannot make better aircraft then soviet union. China will do the same, especially because some of his Un-friendly neighbour is using Russian made aircraft.


And you must be remember, China dump SU-27 Licence Contract in 2000s, because Russian Avionics and Radar System is very Obsolete compare to Chinese one.

Regarding Stealth Fighter, Your T-50 PAKFA have many issues. Even India decide to ditch their Stealth Fighter Program with Russia.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...tched-its-stealth-fighter-program-with-russia


I am also interested in Russian Aviation and have positive Impression with your country development, but I think you need to be more Objective and neutral regarding this issue @ptldM3


Best Regards

 

[sweetgrape]

J-10 is not obsolete, can be upgraded, we need more J20, J10 too.

And, why should compare China with Russia? both have great Air power and good technology, can learn from each other, we are friends.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

China has 20 J-20s with no combat experience, Russia has >100 su-34 (with vast experience in Syria) and >70 su-35. China is still buying su-35 from Russia as of 2018...

Russia has experience of fighting against which air force in Syria?

 

[Beast]

China is more advanced compared to Russia but still buys Russian aircraft and relies on Russian engines and has to hire Kamarov to built the WZ-10 (god only knows what else Russia has helped China develop or what they stole from copying and espionage.


As for J-20, as if you know anything about it or how it would match up in the real world against Russian aircraft, pilots, tactics or how AWACS, SAMs, EW aircraft, intelligence and how military planning would fit it.








Countries like Russia has made hundreds of imporvments and changes to doctrine because of the vast expirence gained in Syria as well as Georgia. China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft.

According to US generals Syria it is the most difficult area in the world to operate because of the electronic warfare environment. You have Russia, United States, Israel, Britain, Turkey, ext jamming aircraft and communications. There is a lot of naval and ground activity too. Not long ago Russia twarted a British submarine from launching cruise missiles and the US dispatch EW aircraft to disrupt a Russia ships and aircraft from following the British submarine. Aircraft have also locked on to other aircraft over Syria or across the border. Has China had advanced MANPADs, launched at its aircraft? Has China had to fly thousands of combat sorties at a moments notice in support of ground forces while being jammed and and monitored by NATO?







Stop embarrassing yourself. A US generals have stated Syria is the most challenging environment in the world to operate because of heavy electronic warfare activity. Russia has stated they made hundreds of improvements to equipment and dectrine because of the experiences gained in Syria. US aircraft have been "disabled" by Russian jamming and it's not just Russia but Israel, Turkey, United States, Britain, France, etc all operate over Syria from the air and ground as well as use naval assets to launch strikes or collect information. Often naval strikes are disrupted by submarines and EW aircraft.

China has never operated in such environments and has never had to scramble aircraft at a moments notice to conduct air strikes just meters away from friendly forces while the US, Israel, Turkey, France and the U.K. Would try to jam communication, intercept communications and collect valuable data from aircraft. China can never replicate any of these experiences in the real world.




Read my explanation I gave to others. You clearly are ignorant in what is going on in Syria and how real world operates. It's the most heavily jammed airspace in the world. Cruise missiles are launched often, many aircraft have been shot down, submarines and EW warfare aircraft stalk one another. Ect Has China had advanced MANPADs, launched at its aircraft? Has China had to fly thousands of combat sorties at a moments notice in support of ground forces while being jammed and and monitored by NATO? Syria is the most challenging environment in the world to operate it. But keep playing it off, US and Russian Generals know more about it then you even US pilots are having a difficult time in Syria.

As if Russian buy every single component of your military hardware. Remember the missile corvette that need Chinese high speed diesel engine to complete it as Ukraine option are not available. As as the recent infra sensor that needed for Su-30MKK export and the clamour for importing of Chinese Type54 frigates by your Russian military analyst.

Still remember the ill venture of trying to buy France LHD Mistral cos your Russian shipyard are too outdated. Until now, not even a modern LDP for Russian Navy.

 

[ptldM3]

Russia has experience of fighting against which air force in Syria?

Russia has experience in conducting tens of thousands of sorties, day and night while being fired on by MANPADs and jammed by NATO aircraft, While providing accurate fire to forces just meters away. They have experience in quickly servicing aircraft and putting them back to action, they have experience in repelling swarms of armed drones attacking their bases. They have experience in shooting down American, Israeli and Turkish drones spying on their bases. They have experience in jamming US aircraft, they have experience of using anti submarine warfare aircrafts to detect British submarines and prevent them from firing cruise missiles.

As if Russian buy every single component of your military hardware. Remember the missile corvette that need Chinese high speed diesel engine to complete it as Ukraine option are not available. As as the recent infra sensor that needed for Su-30MKK export and the clamour for importing of Chinese Type54 frigates by your Russian military analyst.

Still remember the ill venture of trying to buy France LHD Mistral cos your Russian shipyard are too outdated. Until now, not even a modern LDP for Russian Navy.

No one said everyone is completely self sufficient. You missed the point completely. As for Russian shipyards, most are too small to accommodate such ships, the rest are too busy. If Russia imports some equipment it's usually because Ukraine kept factories that produced that equipment. Russia is easily capable of producing equal or better products but its economically not always viable to open new factories and invest billions when they can purchase (in the past) from Ukraine.

 

[Dinky]

Sure dropping bombs on ISIS is "vast" air combat experience.
The other point has already been answered.

Japan is so frightened by arrival of J-20 that it is buying F-35 and
developing a 5th gen fighter by itself.

Japan cancelled the development of its 5th gen fighter