Is China the World’s New Colonial Power?

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

PRC is not an ancient empire which has no idea of territorial waters.
In eastern world, Chinese was the first batch of people sailing out to pursuing a better living , which could explain why there are so many Chinese in Southeast Asian nations.
"Who finds, who owns" is common sence to deal with these islands which was not settled by any people .
Why should China give up these islands never being ruled by any other nations ,which was found by Chinese ancestors ?
China has no insterest in other territory , which doesn't mean we would give up ours.
Could you believe any western nation like US and UK would give up the territory in such situation ?

When China were claiming 9 dash line, none of the nations said anything ,cause they knew nothing about SCS .
Since oil was found, everyone came and claimed sovereignty.

Again, a stupid comparison.
The far east territory of Russia was admitted by Qing Dynasty at that time by formal agreements. Just like Russia sold Alaska to US with a formal contract .
If you still do not understand , just think why nations need these agreements .

Yup, and my great grandparents were 1 of those colonisers venturing over down to southeast asia. Hence, Singapore is a Chinese-dominated country today.

Oh btw, if japan claims diaoyu islands, then China is claiming Liuqiu islands too

 

[Viet]

Oh really?

America is the one country in the world that makes even North Korea look good by comparison. Since despite North Korea being utterly insane and past the point of no return, at least they never actually used their nuclear weapons on civilian populations. They just boast and threaten, America is the only one that has actually done it.



Why would China want to be the next USA, that's not a dream, that is a nightmare. The worst nightmare.



Note that China's "aggression and expansion" is being done with ZERO bloodshed. Not a single person has been killed in the South China Sea by our military.

Something that America can never understand. Every other minute they are dropping a bomb on someone in the Middle East as we speak, it's not just bloodshed but a tsunami of blood over the past decade. A million dead civilians just in Iraq alone, for fake WMD.

you are a typical liar. no bloodshed in the SC sea?

what happened in the battles with Vietnam in the Paracels and Spratlys?

What happened when Chinese coast guard ships rammed to sink Vietnamese fishing boats?

PRC is not an ancient empire which has no idea of territorial waters.
In eastern world, Chinese was the first batch of people sailing out to pursuing a better living , which could explain why there are so many Chinese in Southeast Asian nations.
"Who finds, who owns" is common sence to deal with these islands which was not settled by any people .
Why should China give up these islands never being ruled by any other nations ,which was found by Chinese ancestors ?
China has no insterest in other territory , which doesn't mean we would give up ours.
Could you believe any western nation like US and UK would give up the territory in such situation ?

When China were claiming 9 dash line, none of the nations said anything ,cause they knew nothing about SCS .
Since oil was found, everyone came and claimed sovereignty.

Again, a stupid comparison.
The far east territory of Russia was admitted by Qing Dynasty at that time by formal agreements. Just like Russia sold Alaska to US with a formal contract .
If you still do not understand , just think why nations need these agreements .

we live next the sea, we fish since dinosaur ages but we knew nothing about SCS?
what a clown.

 

[Stuttgart001]

I think some posters are too carelessly saying "US dropped nukes so China better than US because China never nuked".
It is important to understand the context. No of course it is debatable as to whether or not the US should have or should not have dropped the nuclear bombs. But the US was already in a war for 4 years. And in the fight with Japan, they experienced very stiff resistance at Iwo Jima, and furthermore at the Battle of Okinawa. Would there really be any country that would not have used nuclear bombs after having developed while in the middle of a major war? The estimates causalities to the US in a land invasion of the Japanese home islands was very high, like 150,000. So if you have had the bombs, wouldn't many your fellow leaders ask you why not drop them and save your own servicemen? And let's not forget why the US developed the atomic bomb to begin with. It was because US leadership learned that Nazi Germany was developing a nuclear bomb. So the race was on to make the bomb. What I think what made the use of the atomic bombs worse was that Far East Tokyo Tribunal that ruled Japan guilty of many charges, left the US completely free of committing similar style massacres. Japan was charged with war crimes while the US was not. So that was a completely biased tribunal against the defeated power of Japan.

Anyway, I would ask the question to China, what if China had the atomic bomb during the war of resistance. China would not use it against Imperial Japan? Of course the Chinese would have used it. Just as the Soviets would have used it on the Germans, or the Germans would have used it on the British, and so on.

None of Chinese thought that way, in contrast，we Chinese think Japanese citizens deserved the nukes due to what their army have done and how they supported Japan army in WWII.
In fact, Chinese citizens killed by bayonets and machine guns of Japan army is hundreds of times Japanese citizens killed by nukes.
I could 100% make sure that if someone questions the justice of nuking Japan, he is definitely not a Chinese.

Well of course China doesn't want to become the "next USA" but naturally China wants to replace the US as the world top power, no?

Absolutely not. China has little interest in taking the responsibility of world policy .

China's aggression and expansion is setting up the world for a new cold war. There was no bloodshed between the US and the Soviet Union, but there were plenty of proxy wars, and there were a few real close calls like the Cuban missile crisis.

Do you really know something about cold war and what the Soviet Union have done in the whold world ?
Soviet Union wanted to defeat capitalism in the whole world , nevertheless China wants to make money in the whole world.

US activity in the Middle East is, well, its a mess. Most people don't like it, and probably rightfully so. But well I have another rebuttal for readers to consider, even on this point. Unfortunate to the many people that just want to live regular life in the Middle East, there is competition going in the Middle East. It's basically at a Shia vs Sunni basis. Iran is the center country for Shia. And main countries of Sunni are Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, etc. Iran tries to increase Shia influence by infiltration. They did so in Iraq during the US occupation and have gained influence in Baghdad. Iran is supporting the insurgency of Shia Houthi rebels in Sunni ruled Yemen. And Iran helps the Syrian government led by Assad (Shia) against the Syria rebels and ISIS (both Sunni backed). If the US was complete 100% hands off in the Middle East, there would be no peace as these two sides would still compete with each other and fight with each other. So the US seems to be meddling in the wide spread Middle East conflict to try and influence things towards their interest. Other outside powers are doing so to, such as Turkey and Russia. The main point is, when there is war, be it civil war or between two countries, outsiders tend to stick in their fingers and try to influence an outcome that is beneficial to them. 3 decades before the Syria civil war was the Iraq-Iran war during the 1980s where the two countries went at each other like a meatgrinder. Suppose the US didn't occupy Iraq. It would have meant Saddam's Iraq recovering and getting stronger and stronger. I suppose one could speculate that he would just sit there and not make threats on neighbors again. But what are the chances of that really? Saying so doesn't mean to excuse the US invasion in 2003. Well it's all very complex.

That's why China does not want to replace US.
But pls don't make US look innocent, even the president of US doesn't believe it .
What the ME nations need most is order not democracy, the order of tyrant is much better than disorder.
If US really want to make ME better, they should find a balance between Shiit and Sunni and Muslim and Isreal.
US has much more strengh to sustain the balance since Soviet Union collapsed.
If not so many dictators got dismantled too quickly, there won't be so many terrorists and extremists in ME.

I think the ME is an important lesson for China. If China increases its interest beyond its border, then it will become more and more tempting for China to meddle in foreign conflicts to influence the outcome in a way that does not threaten outside Chinese interests, and perhaps also to try and steer the outcome to something favorable. It's a recipe for proxy wars. Be it outside areas of developed interest someplace in Africa, or some Indochina country, or what may your imagination have .

Compared to all other nations which was in a fast developing stage , China takes the most modest measures to deal with others.
Most of nations on the earth have conflicts with its neighbors or others ,and what makes westerners so care about China's conflict is China has the potential to change the order made by western world.

If india is in the postion of China, i am afraid China become the humble and mysterious and friendly nation in western media again.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

you are a typical liar. no bloodshed in the SC sea?

what happened in the battles with Vietnam in the Paracels and Spratlys?

What happened when Chinese coast guard ships rammed to sink Vietnamese fishing boats?


we live next the sea, we fish since dinosaur ages but we knew nothing about SCS?
what a clown.

I said no bloodshed NOW.

The Paracels happened decades ago.

 

[Suika]

Dude, you are really funny .
Firstly, you should read some history book about China and figure out how China delt with its relationship with its neigbors in ancient world.
Secondly, you need to learn some history about how Britain and USA got world hegemacy .

I find you define China and US with double standards.
The reality of the world is to be ruled by US .
The Japan supporting US has no idea with japanese loveness to American people, but US dominating Japan.
The harm US did to Japan is more than China did or will do , but Japan thought it's an accepable reality .

Asian allies of US got the role which US assigned them and enjoyed the piece of cake US awarded. No one dare to think whether or not it is fair .
In event of conflicts with neigbors , everyone is keen to please US in order to make US side with yourself or at least neutral .

The nations you've mentioned above have interest conflicts with China ,which is a normal phenomena , that is just like that they have with their neighbors and US.

In regard of dealing with conflicts with US, they have no much guts and measures.
When it comes to their neighbor, these nations could not do much more ,cause everyting is controlled by US.

The only problem is how they deal with China, a new strong power which has potential to change the order and principle made by US, which everyone has gotten used to .

Overall, the reason you said that these nations don't like China is bullshit .
Vietam as a communist nation was an ally of China in 1950s and 1960s , then turned to enemy in 1970s .
Great Britain was a pioneer of anti-communism, which had no moral obstacle to skip over to make a formal diplomatic relationship with PRC in 1950s.
In 1970s and 1980s, when PRC was much more isolated and backwarded in all aspects, US and other westerns could not be more friendly to China, cause they needed China to counter Soviet Union in Far East .

So be realistic. All you could see is the games of powers related to interest .

Western nations would like to see African being backward for ever, which means there are less people who could share the limited resource on the earth with them , which is reasonble from their perspective , cause the earth could not afford too many people living a life with western standard even a relatively good life.

That's a real colonialism by technique and knowledge .

I think there is too much dependency on old history for trying to interpret current affairs today on your part. I'm going to skip a history of Japanese and American relationship, there's too much to say. But I will say that Japan likes the US today not because of old habit. But it is because Japanese are seriously concerned about Chinese expansion. And the very nature of the CCP China is something that Japan does not like at all. There are two main points. CCP's anti-Japanese propaganda and China's territorial claim on the Senkaku islands.

Check out the feelings of affinity Japan had with China over the course of history.

As can be seen, the 1980s were good. But when the Tianemen Square massacre happened, sentiment dropped. What followed through the 1990s was a raise of anti-Japanese propaganda, and it continued into the 2000s. Then in 2010, a Chinese trawler rammed a Japanese coast guard ship near the Senkaku islands.

And from there own, it just got worse and worse. China increasingly looking threatening. China always telling Japan to properly look back at history and to not become militant, as China's defense budget jumps and Japan's defense budget remains static, and China making massive bases in the South China Sea, and China holding a 2015 massive military parade that was supposed to "make Japan tremble". CCP Chinese blockheads have pincered a pacified Japan with a widening defense budget gap on the one hand and allegations about being militant and not properly respecting history on the other hand. The US did not have to do anything to get Japan on the US's side. Whatever gives the Chinese patriots the impression that Japan is just doing what America commands it is dead wrong, you can bet on it. Japanese feelings of affinity toward the US are at an all time high. Japan and the US fully committed to each other. Following is a graph about affinity towards the US.

Here's the full survey with the two graphs and lot's more information.
http://survey.gov-online.go.jp/h28/h28-gaiko/summary.pdf

Other countries such as India, Vietnam, and the Philippines have all steadily been building up defense relations with Japan in recent years. The building of defense relations is all stemming from fear from an overbearing China. A few of many examples if it happening which lead me to think that is the case. JMSDF have made a number of visits to the Philippines just in 2016..

And the JMSDF made their first visit to Vietnam in 2016 as well.

Japan and Australia have been developing defense relations as well, with the US. Again, the following all from 2016.

And there are more examples of India and Japan developing defense relations. All these countries of course want to keep on doing business with China, but they are all a little nervous about China's assertion in the South China Sea. Well of course, Vietnam and the Philippines have direct dispute with China in there.

None of Chinese thought that way, in contrast，we Chinese think Japanese citizens deserved the nukes due to what their army have done and how they supported Japan army in WWII.
In fact, Chinese citizens killed by bayonets and machine guns of Japan army is hundreds of times Japanese citizens killed by nukes.
I could 100% make sure that if someone questions the justice of nuking Japan, he is definitely not a Chinese.

Absolutely not. China has little interest in taking the responsibility of world policy .

Do you really know something about cold war and what the Soviet Union have done in the whold world ?
Soviet Union wanted to defeat capitalism in the whole world , nevertheless China wants to make money in the whole world.

That's why China does not want to replace US.
But pls don't make US look innocent, even the president of US doesn't believe it .
What the ME nations need most is order not democracy, the order of tyrant is much better than disorder.
If US really want to make ME better, they should find a balance between Shiit and Sunni and Muslim and Isreal.
US has much more strengh to sustain the balance since Soviet Union collapsed.
If not so many dictators got dismantled too quickly, there won't be so many terrorists and extremists in ME.


Compared to all other nations which was in a fast developing stage , China takes the most modest measures to deal with others.
Most of nations on the earth have conflicts with its neighbors or others ,and what makes westerners so care about China's conflict is China has the potential to change the order made by western world.

If india is in the postion of China, i am afraid China become the humble and mysterious and friendly nation in western media again.

With a very short reply to your long post, I think the other patriots of China on the boards speak otherwise to your views.

 

[Stuttgart001]

we live next the sea, we fish since dinosaur ages but we knew nothing about SCS?
what a clown.

Sorry. The geographic distance has no relationship with geographical discovery.
That's why most of islands of the oceans wasn't found by westerners not their island natives.
Anyway, there are clear records about these islands discoved and utilized by Chinese in China history book.

Anyone who feels unfair could just blame your ancestors who stayed at home or didn't record anything .

I think there is too much dependency on old history for trying to interpret current affairs today on your part. I'm going to skip a history of Japanese and American relationship, there's too much to say. But I will say that Japan likes the US today not because of old habit. But it is because Japanese are seriously concerned about Chinese expansion. And the very nature of the CCP China is something that Japan does not like at all. There are two main points. CCP's anti-Japanese propaganda and China's territorial claim on the Senkaku islands.

Check out the feelings of affinity Japan had with China over the course of history.

As can be seen, the 1980s were good. But when the Tianemen Square massacre happened, sentiment dropped. What followed through the 1990s was a raise of anti-Japanese propaganda, and it continued into the 2000s. Then in 2010, a Chinese trawler rammed a Japanese coast guard ship near the Senkaku islands.

And from there own, it just got worse and worse. China increasingly looking threatening. China always telling Japan to properly look back at history and to not become militant, as China's defense budget jumps and Japan's defense budget remains static, and China making massive bases in the South China Sea, and China holding a 2015 massive military parade that was supposed to "make Japan tremble". CCP Chinese blockheads have pincered a pacified Japan with a widening defense budget gap on the one hand and allegations about being militant and not properly respecting history on the other hand. The US did not have to do anything to get Japan on the US's side. Whatever gives the Chinese patriots the impression that Japan is just doing what America commands it is dead wrong, you can bet on it. Japanese feelings of affinity toward the US are at an all time high. Japan and the US fully committed to each other. Following is a graph about affinity towards the US.

Here's the full survey with the two graphs and lot's more information.
http://survey.gov-online.go.jp/h28/h28-gaiko/summary.pdf

Other countries such as India, Vietnam, and the Philippines have all steadily been building up defense relations with Japan in recent years. The building of defense relations is all stemming from fear from an overbearing China. A few of many examples if it happening which lead me to think that is the case. JMSDF have made a number of visits to the Philippines just in 2016..

And the JMSDF made their first visit to Vietnam in 2016 as well.

Japan and Australia have been developing defense relations as well, with the US. Again, the following all from 2016.

And there are more examples of India and Japan developing defense relations. All these countries of course want to keep on doing business with China, but they are all a little nervous about China's assertion in the South China Sea. Well of course, Vietnam and the Philippines have direct dispute with China in there.
.

What you said about Japanese feelings of affinity toward the US and China just proved my argument.
The case Japan feels affinitive toward the US which controlls Japan in all aspects proved the nature of respecting strong power.
The denail of what Japan has done to Asian people and confession of what he has done to westerners is another evidence to prove Japanese nature .
Feeling no threat from a more anti-japan neighbor reveals what Japan cares about is the strength .
A weak China is Japan's favourite , which is obviously for Japanese interest .
For those nations who have disputes with China, China development is a threat or an expansion in their eyes .
To those nations who has traditional friendly relationship and common interest with China, China development is a goodliness and a gift.

Yup, and my greatgrand parents were 1 of those colonisers venturing over down to southeast asia. Hence, Singapore is a chinese-dominated country today.

I am afraind your greatgrand parents would not be qualified to be colonisers who usually brought swords and guns to clean the natives, which we Chinese are no good at .

 

[sinait]

Other countries such as India, Vietnam, and the Philippines have all steadily been building up defense relations with Japan in recent years. The building of defense relations is all stemming from fear from an overbearing China.
And there are more examples of India and Japan developing defense relations. All these countries of course want to keep on doing business with China, but they are all a little nervous about China's assertion in the South China Sea. Well of course, Vietnam and the Philippines have direct dispute with China in there.

India, Vietnam and the Philippines had stolen territories of China when China was weak. They definitely are apprehensive and more than a little nervous of a rising powerful China that will have the ability to reclaim her stolen territories.

 

[samsara]

Yup, and my great grandparents were 1 of those colonisers venturing over down to southeast asia. Hence, Singapore is a Chinese-dominated country today.

Oh btw, if japanese claims diaoyu islands, then China is claiming Liuqiu islands too

If the Japanese do not be careful and keep on towing the lines pushed over by Abe and Inada's hardened militarist aspirations thus keep on provoking the Chinese, one day in future they may wake up with new reality that it is not only the Chinese will regain the Diaoyu Island but also Liuqiu 琉球... by then a lot of things of the past due accumulation may find its outburst valves, a kindness repay of the old settlements plus interests (and dividend if any one wanna add). They just do not reflect wisely, not seeing the mirror of own posture or not looking at the world map properly, worse they may possibly still think of the past superiority complex over "The Sick Man of Asia", some kind of "an accident of history", a small island tried to act as the leading goose once upon a time!

 

[Viet]

I said no bloodshed NOW.

The Paracels happened decades ago.

You forgot Spratlys. You forgot your lethal aggression against Vietnamese fishermen. You forgot both sides were close to an armed confrontation during the oil rig crisis. You forget too many things. Blind?

 

[Suika]

Sorry. The geographic distance has no relationship with geographical discovery.
That's why most of islands of the oceans wasn't found by westerners not their island natives.
Anyway, there are clear records about these islands discoved and utilized by Chinese in China history book.

Anyone who feels unfair could just blame your ancestors who stayed at home or didn't record anything .


What you said about Japanese feelings of affinity toward the US and China just proved my argument.
The case Japan feels affinitive toward the US which controlls Japan in all aspects proved the nature of respecting strong power.
The denail of what Japan has done to Asian people and confession of what he has done to westerners is another evidence to prove Japanese nature .
Feeling no threat from a more anti-japan neighbor reveals what Japan cares about is the strength .
A weak China is Japan's favourite , which is obviously for Japanese interest .
For those nations who have disputes with China, China development is a threat or an expansion in their eyes .
To those nations who has traditional friendly relationship and common interest with China, China development is a goodliness and a gift.


I am afraind your greatgrand parents would not be qualified to be colonisers who usually brought swords and guns to clean the natives, which we Chinese are no good at .

"The denail of what Japan has done to Asian people"

CCP propaganda. CCP does not allow freedom of expression. What they say, the people believe and think, and there is no way to undo that.

A key difference between Japan and China is freedom of expression. It's the same difference that the US, Germany, France, Great Britain, and many other countries have with Japan. Freedom of expression. That means there is always going to be some people with different points of views. But regardless, the academically honest and sincere Japanese historians that look into the history and want to express sorrow for what Japan has done to Asia still conclude that 300,000 were not massacred in Nanking. It is an impossible figure. In 1937, when the Japanese Army was heading towards the walled city of Nanking, people were running away. The population of the city was dropping from 800,000 down to about 250,000 by the time the Japanese Army arrived. After Japanese forces have sealed off the city and occupied it for 6 weeks, there was still over 200,000 people in city. Even estimates by foreigners, such as John Rabe, that were in the city in the safety zone with the sheltered Chinese population also estimated about 50,000 killed.

Japan should apologize for what they did. Not for more than what they did. If a Japanese sincerely apologizes but with deep sense of understanding of what happened at Nanking, that it was about 50,000 massacred, then the CCP tells everyone in mainland China that all the Japanese are whitewashers and does not accept the apology and says 300,000 were massacred. But why believe the CCP, they don't allow scholastic honesty. They turned it into a political tool. It is impossible to resolve this history point because it is a political tool of the CCP that they will never relinquish and Chinese intellectuals are powerless to challenge it.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You forgot Spratlys. You forgot your lethal aggression against Vietnamese fishermen. You forgot both sides were close to an armed confrontation during the oil rig crisis. You forget too many things. Blind?

CLOSE to an armed confrontation with Vietnam during the oil rig crisis? Not even close. How many people died during the oil rig crisis?

Nowhere comparable to the USA dropping a bomb in the Middle East every few minutes.

If China was like the USA, does that mean we should invade 3 separate countries in a decade? Maybe you wish that we were more like the USA.

Once China's current military transformation is mostly complete, around 2020-2025, then maybe. But not now.

 

[Viet]

CLOSE to an armed confrontation with Vietnam during the oil rig crisis? Not even close. How many people died during the oil rig crisis?

Nowhere comparable to the USA dropping a bomb in the Middle East every few minutes.

If China was like the USA, does that mean we should invade 3 separate countries in a decade? Maybe you wish that we were more like the USA.

Once China's current military transformation is mostly complete, around 2020-2025, then maybe. But not now.

You sent civil patrol ships into our waters armed by heavy guns, antiship and anti aircraft missiles. Also you dispatched fully armed warships. Do you think we don't know it?

2020-2025?

I hope you don't cry like girl when bullets start flying. You should know we don't like weakling nor coward.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You sent civil patrol ships into our waters armed by heavy guns, antiship and anti aircraft missiles. Also you dispatched fully armed warships. Do you think we don't know it?

And we didn't fire any of them.

2020-2025?

I hope you don't cry like girl when bullets start flying. You should know we don't like weakling nor coward.

I hope you take your own advice when the day comes.

 

[samsara]

CLOSE to an armed confrontation with Vietnam during the oil rig crisis? Not even close. How many people died during the oil rig crisis?

Nowhere comparable to the USA dropping a bomb in the Middle East every few minutes.

If China was like the USA, does that mean we should invade 3 separate countries in a decade? Maybe you wish that we were more like the USA.

Once China's current military transformation is mostly complete, around 2020-2025, then maybe. But not now.

NOPE! Three countries in a decade is TOO modest

 

[Azadkashmir]

I watched Resident Evil: the final chapter last week. That movie is full of colonialism thoughts just like American elimilated local Indians in new continent when expanding to the Pacific coast.

yeah lolz i watched it too like two weeks ago