Is China the World’s New Colonial Power?

[Jacob Martin]

It's funny, they can always come up with a new accusation whenever they lost a bid to Chinese. Chinese call it "Envy-Jealousy-Hatred". Very soon, they are going to call China "Hegemony" even if China doesn't fire a single shot.



The topic here is if China is the World's new colonial power, and you are talking about if a China invested project has achieved its original goal?

The topic here is the impact on the African nations where China is currently very active. Colonialism had many aspects, some of them completely based on economics. If it turns out that many projects being implemented were not needed in the sense there was no demand for them in the first place, then they will be stuck in the same situation as the Sri Lankan port. That would be colonialism, wouldn't it?

It is no one's claim that China is doing to Africa what Belgium did to Congo. The thread is merely to explore whether there are modern ways in which one country could subjugate another for its own purposes. I personally think it is an open question, because we don't yet know enough about the eventual outcome of all these activities.

 

[Place Of Space]

This is how colonialism always starts...with good intentions.

I watched Resident Evil: the final chapter last week. That movie is full of colonialism thoughts just like American elimilated local Indians in new continent when expanding to the Pacific coast.

 

[Stuttgart001]

China didn't do all those things that the the US, Great Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Japan, and Russia did because they were weak. Nothing about moral superiority.

China's great economic raise happened in the post-Cold War era. No one interferes with China's great growth. Lots of people in different countries were even supportive. Post-WW2 and Post-Cold War saw an end to military competition between major world powers. China seems bent on recreating that era for some reason despite enjoying economic success.

You know a little about Chinese culture and philosophy .

In western world, jungle law always works , in China, there is no market for it .

Let me tell why, since China become a united and sole big empire in eastern Asia, the ruler of China began to pay more and more attention on ruling these vast land and numerous people than conquering remote infertile land .

In ancient, there are lots of small countries sustaining a relationship of tributary with China，which did not exist in Western world.

An emperor of China would get a higher evaluation by making people not suffer hunger and cold than conquering other races in China history book.

So pls do not use western way of thinking to analyse Chinese action.

There are two civilizations with huge amount of difference.

The topic here is the impact on the African nations where China is currently very active. Colonialism had many aspects, some of them completely based on economics.

Pls tell me what kind of economic action is not Colonialism?

 

[Suika]

You know a little about Chinese culture and philosophy .
In western world, jungle law always works , in China, there is no market for it .
Let me tell why, since China become a united and sole big empire in eastern Asia, the ruler of China began to pay more and more attention on ruling these vast land and numerous people than conquering remote infertile land .

In ancient, there are lots of small countries sustaining a relationship of tributary with China，which did not exist in Western world.
An emperor of China would get a higher evaluation by making people not suffer hunger and cold than conquering other races in China historybook .

So pls do not use western way of thinking to analyse Chinese action.
There are two civilizations with huge amount of differecy.


Pls tell me what kind of economic action is not Colonialism ?

Then why do some many patriots of China advocate aggression and expansion? The South China Sea was not historically part of China. The 9 dash line was in response to aggressive French and Japanese moves. If China was to honor the idea of "more attention on ruling these vast land and numerous people than conquering remote infertile land" then they should drop the 9 dash line claim as it is a relic of so-called "western world, jungle law". And the Senkaku islands. They were never Chinese territory, only navigation points. And if China was to care so much about past historical territory, then why don't they raise issue with Russia regarding Vladivostok and the rest of outer Manchuria?

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@TaiShang @samsara @Shotgunner51 @Götterdämmerung


My friends,

What is this?

Can we even call it a narrative? I mean...what the heck is this poor storytelling.


Whats going on... one would expect empire's mouthpieces to Manufacture Consent in a creative, subtle manner. And here we are totally let down by the storytellers. Shame.


Personally, I expected a more creative, well thought our counter-narrative to OBOR. Disappointing this.

It is like indians doing 'analysis' about how China is conducting soft-imperialisam in Pak through CPEC. Pak becoming Chinese colony and all... indians showing good will to Pak.

Can stupidity become more disturbing?

This thread has Zero value in Constructive Discourse. Must meet painless death. Mods?

Regards,

SPF

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Of course the US is not a perfect country.

Oh really?

America is the one country in the world that makes even North Korea look good by comparison. Since despite North Korea being utterly insane and past the point of no return, at least they never actually used their nuclear weapons on civilian populations. They just boast and threaten, America is the only one that has actually done it.

But China fails to understand how to do it, nor do they seem interested. If China could be the better role model country than the US, then China would gather a ring of supporting countries and become a truely incredible central kingdom that becomes the truely geopolitical, economical, cultural, humanities hub for human kind on earth.

Why would China want to be the next USA, that's not a dream, that is a nightmare. The worst nightmare.

Then why do some many patriots of China advocate aggression and expansion?

Note that China's "aggression and expansion" is being done with ZERO bloodshed. Not a single person has been killed in the South China Sea by our military.

Something that America can never understand. Every other minute they are dropping a bomb on someone in the Middle East as we speak, it's not just bloodshed but a tsunami of blood over the past decade. A million dead civilians just in Iraq alone, for fake WMD.

 

[Stuttgart001]

The point that seems to continuously be missed by the patriots of China is that almost everyone is in opposition to China replacing the US as the top country. That means that they will all support the US instead of supporting China. There's no way that China can over take the US-Japan-India-Great Britain-Australia-Vietnam-the Philippines-etc and etc.

Of course the US is not a perfect country. And theoretically, it should be possible that there could be a very big country that could be more attractive as the top country than the US. But China fails to understand how to do it, nor do they seem interested. If China could be the better role model country than the US, then China would gather a ring of supporting countries and become a truely incredible central kingdom that becomes the truely geopolitical, economical, cultural, humanities hub for human kind on earth. They have the size and geographical location for that role. But instead, they lock away freedom of speech, and put out a give me give me, I take screw you I take screw you attitude, and it is no wonder they gather very little international support. The way so many of China's patriots rebuttal in such a combative way on these respectable boards against everyone in opposition is further evidence of it.

Dude, you are really funny .
Firstly, you should read some history book about China and figure out how China delt with its relationship with its neigbors in ancient world.
Secondly, you need to learn some history about how Britain and USA got world hegemacy .

I find you define China and US with double standards.
The reality of the world is to be ruled by US .
The Japan supporting US has no idea with japanese loveness to American people, but US dominating Japan.
The harm US did to Japan is more than China did or will do , but Japan thought it's an accepable reality .

Asian allies of US got the role which US assigned them and enjoyed the piece of cake US awarded. No one dare to think whether or not it is fair .
In event of conflicts with neigbors , everyone is keen to please US in order to make US side with yourself or at least neutral .

The nations you've mentioned above have interest conflicts with China ,which is a normal phenomena , that is just like that they have with their neighbors and US.

In regard of dealing with conflicts with US, they have no much guts and measures.
When it comes to their neighbor, these nations could not do much more ,cause everyting is controlled by US.

The only problem is how they deal with China, a new strong power which has potential to change the order and principle made by US, which everyone has gotten used to .

Overall, the reason you said that these nations don't like China is bullshit .
Vietam as a communist nation was an ally of China in 1950s and 1960s , then turned to enemy in 1970s .
Great Britain was a pioneer of anti-communism, which had no moral obstacle to skip over to make a formal diplomatic relationship with PRC in 1950s.
In 1970s and 1980s, when PRC was much more isolated and backwarded in all aspects, US and other westerns could not be more friendly to China, cause they needed China to counter Soviet Union in Far East .

So be realistic. All you could see is the games of powers related to interest .

Western nations would like to see African being backward for ever, which means there are less people who could share the limited resource on the earth with them , which is reasonble from their perspective , cause the earth could not afford too many people living a life with western standard even a relatively good life.

That's a real colonialism by technique and knowledge .

 

[onebyone]

The Children Killed by America’s Drones. “Crimes Against Humanity” committed by Barack H. Obama.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ch...-humanity-committed-by-barack-h-obama/5320570

US Predator Drone strikes kill 80 innocent civilians in Yemen

WikiLeaks raw US Apache footage

 

[Götterdämmerung]

@TaiShang @samsara @Shotgunner51 @Götterdämmerung @ahojunk


My friends,

What is this?

Can we even call it a narrative? I mean...what the heck is this poor storytelling.


Whats going on... one would expect empire's mouthpieces to Manufacture Consent in a creative, subtle manner. And here we are totally let down by the storytellers. Shame.


Personally, I expected a more creative, well thought our counter-narrative to OBOR. Disappointing this.

It is like indians doing 'analysis' about how China is conducting soft-imperialisam in Pak through CPEC. Pak becoming Chinese colony and all... indians showing good will to Pak.

Can stupidity become more disturbing?

This thread has Zero value in Constructive Discourse. Must meet painless death. Mods?

Regards,

SPF

You can only counter dishonesty, lies and malevolence with facts!

https://deborahbrautigam.com/

 

[bobsm]

Oh really?

Something that America can never understand. Every other minute they are dropping a bomb on someone in the Middle East as we speak, it's not just bloodshed but a tsunami of blood over the past decade. A million dead civilians just in Iraq alone, for fake WMD.

Unfortunately for innocent people, this bloodshed will continue for a long, long time.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/us-coalition-strikes-isis-killed-45-civilians-march/story?id=47118109

US coalition strikes against ISIS killed at least 352 civilians since 2014, Pentagon says

By MICHAEL EDISON HAYDEN
Apr 30, 2017, 3:48 PM ET

A new Pentagon report finds at least 352 civilians have been unintentionally killed by artillery and airstrikes in the U.S. coalition fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria since the operation began in August 2014, according to the Pentagon.

The U.S. military's Combined Joint Task Force for the operation targeting ISIS said in the statement that the total includes 45 civilian deaths for which investigations were completed in March.

 

[Suika]

Oh really?

America is the one country in the world that makes even North Korea look good by comparison. Since despite North Korea being utterly insane and past the point of no return, at least they never actually used their nuclear weapons on civilian populations. They just boast and threaten, America is the only one that has actually done it.

Why would China want to be the next USA, that's not a dream, that is a nightmare. The worst nightmare.

Note that China's "aggression and expansion" is being done with ZERO bloodshed. Not a single person has been killed in the South China Sea by our military.

Something that America can never understand. Every other minute they are dropping a bomb on someone in the Middle East as we speak, it's not just bloodshed but a tsunami of blood over the past decade. A million dead civilians just in Iraq alone, for fake WMD.

I think some posters are too carelessly saying "US dropped nukes so China better than US because China never nuked". It is important to understand the context. No of course it is debatable as to whether or not the US should have or should not have dropped the nuclear bombs. But the US was already in a war for 4 years. And in the fight with Japan, they experienced very stiff resistance at Iwo Jima, and furthermore at the Battle of Okinawa. Would there really be any country that would not have used nuclear bombs after having developed while in the middle of a major war? The estimates causalities to the US in a land invasion of the Japanese home islands was very high, like 150,000. So if you have had the bombs, wouldn't many your fellow leaders ask you why not drop them and save your own servicemen? And let's not forget why the US developed the atomic bomb to begin with. It was because US leadership learned that Nazi Germany was developing a nuclear bomb. So the race was on to make the bomb. What I think what made the use of the atomic bombs worse was that Far East Tokyo Tribunal that ruled Japan guilty of many charges, left the US completely free of committing similar style massacres. Japan was charged with war crimes while the US was not. So that was a completely biased tribunal against the defeated power of Japan.

Anyway, I would ask the question to China, what if China had the atomic bomb during the war of resistance. China would not use it against Imperial Japan? Of course the Chinese would have used it. Just as the Soviets would have used it on the Germans, or the Germans would have used it on the British, and so on.


Well of course China doesn't want to become the "next USA" but naturally China wants to replace the US as the world top power, no?


China's aggression and expansion is setting up the world for a new cold war. There was no bloodshed between the US and the Soviet Union, but there were plenty of proxy wars, and there were a few real close calls like the Cuban missile crisis.


US activity in the Middle East is, well, its a mess. Most people don't like it, and probably rightfully so. But well I have another rebuttal for readers to consider, even on this point. Unfortunate to the many people that just want to live regular life in the Middle East, there is competition going in the Middle East. It's basically at a Shia vs Sunni basis. Iran is the center country for Shia. And main countries of Sunni are Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, etc. Iran tries to increase Shia influence by infiltration. They did so in Iraq during the US occupation and have gained influence in Baghdad. Iran is supporting the insurgency of Shia Houthi rebels in Sunni ruled Yemen. And Iran helps the Syrian government led by Assad (Shia) against the Syria rebels and ISIS (both Sunni backed). If the US was complete 100% hands off in the Middle East, there would be no peace as these two sides would still compete with each other and fight with each other. So the US seems to be meddling in the wide spread Middle East conflict to try and influence things towards their interest. Other outside powers are doing so to, such as Turkey and Russia. The main point is, when there is war, be it civil war or between two countries, outsiders tend to stick in their fingers and try to influence an outcome that is beneficial to them. 3 decades before the Syria civil war was the Iraq-Iran war during the 1980s where the two countries went at each other like a meatgrinder. Suppose the US didn't occupy Iraq. It would have meant Saddam's Iraq recovering and getting stronger and stronger. I suppose one could speculate that he would just sit there and not make threats on neighbors again. But what are the chances of that really? Saying so doesn't mean to excuse the US invasion in 2003. Well it's all very complex.

I think the ME is an important lesson for China. If China increases its interest beyond its border, then it will become more and more tempting for China to meddle in foreign conflicts to influence the outcome in a way that does not threaten outside Chinese interests, and perhaps also to try and steer the outcome to something favorable. It's a recipe for proxy wars. Be it outside areas of developed interest someplace in Africa, or some Indochina country, or what may your imagination have .

 

[Stuttgart001]

Then why do some many patriots of China advocate aggression and expansion? The South China Sea was not historically part of China. The 9 dash line was in response to aggressive French and Japanese moves. If China was to honor the idea of "more attention on ruling these vast land and numerous people than conquering remote infertile land" then they should drop the 9 dash line claim as it is a relic of so-called "western world, jungle law". And the Senkaku islands. They were never Chinese territory, only navigation points.

PRC is not an ancient empire which has no idea of territorial waters.
In eastern world, Chinese was the first batch of people sailing out to pursuing a better living , which could explain why there are so many Chinese in Southeast Asian nations.
"Who finds, who owns" is common sense to deal with these islands which was not settled by any people .
Why should China give up these islands never being ruled by any other nations ,which was found by Chinese ancestors ?
China has no interest in other territory , which doesn't mean we would give up ours.
Could you believe any western nation like US and UK would give up the territory in such situation ?

When China were claiming 9 dash line, none of the nations said anything ,cause they knew nothing about SCS .
Since oil was found, everyone came and claimed sovereignty.

And if China was to care so much about past historical territory, then why don't they raise issue with Russia regarding Vladivostok and the rest of outer Manchuria?

Again, a stupid comparison.
The far east territory of Russia was admitted by Qing Dynasty at that time by formal agreements. Just like Russia sold Alaska to US with a formal contract .
If you still do not understand , just think why nations need these agreements .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China's aggression and expansion is setting up the world for a new cold war. There was no bloodshed between the US and the Soviet Union, but there were plenty of proxy wars, and there were a few real close calls like the Cuban missile crisis.

All of China's "disputes" have zero bloodshed.

America is shedding blood every few minutes in a variety of countries across the planet.

Now would China be doing the same thing if we were in America's position? Maybe. But we are not, and all this drama is merely a distraction from a Middle East which is pouring with blood in every direction. Just add nukes to the mix and it will be lights out. Thermonuclear weapons and ICBMs are 1950's technology, it's going to happen eventually.

 

[Godman]

This is how colonialism always starts...with good intentions.

Eh?

 

[samsara]

@TaiShang @samsara @Shotgunner51 @Götterdämmerung @ahojunk


My friends,

What is this?

Can we even call it a narrative? I mean...what the heck is this poor storytelling.


Whats going on... one would expect empire's mouthpieces to Manufacture Consent in a creative, subtle manner. And here we are totally let down by the storytellers. Shame.


Personally, I expected a more creative, well thought our counter-narrative to OBOR. Disappointing this.

It is like indians doing 'analysis' about how China is conducting soft-imperialisam in Pak through CPEC. Pak becoming Chinese colony and all... indians showing good will to Pak.

Can stupidity become more disturbing?

This thread has Zero value in Constructive Discourse. Must meet painless death. Mods?

Regards,

SPF

@Sinopakfriend, YOU are the one who has all the patience to entertain the jocular title as such this OP something I definitely lack of!

Ask this kind of folks to study at least the most recent period of colonialism by European, Japanese forces in 19th century rolled into the 20th century till the end of WWII to understand what defines as a colonial power. But some dumbed down are hard to tell let alone to teach worse if they're trolls, then complete futile!

A simpleton quiz: Does anyone see that China owns any territory far from its mainland, or even at the other corner of the globe as shown by some great colonial powers? Just open the WORLD MAP, look closely at which power has territory far away from its mainland??? Please do not troll us wrt the South China Sea.