Is China the World’s New Colonial Power?

[gambit]

China isn't the only country doing overseas investments. You don't hear people saying Japan is the new type of colonialist lol. When China does it we are called the colonialist , I expected more intelligence from you old man, what a disappointment

And you shall...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/02/china-zimbabwe-workers-abuse

Surrounded by a perimeter wall that runs for a kilometre through what was once farmland, the shadowy military academy is being built by a Chinese contractor whose managers are accused of meting out physical punishments, miserable conditions and meagre pay.

"The beatings happen very often," said a 28-year-old carpenter, wearing blue overalls as he made the long walk home after a 14-hour shift. "They ill-treat you and, if you make a mistake, they beat you up.

"I saw some men beaten up yesterday. A guy complained: 'You're not treating us like human beings,' and the Chinese replied: 'You should appreciate we've come to assist you.' They beat him up and he was fired."

These are not isolated incidents. HRW documents shows that while on the surface, China's claim to have a non-interference policy of a host country's affairs, that policy is not observed while at the same time serves as cover to China's support of Africa's worst strongmen, such as Mugabe...

...Or dos Santos...

http://www.reuters.com/article/angola-china-idUSL5N0YV1R220150609

In return, these African countries agreed to support China at the UN on any issue China deems beneficial to China, even only to China.

You guys have no problems calling South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines as US colonial subjects, as you stretches the definition of the word 'colonialism', so face up to what your China is doing in Africa when much of that definition applies to China.

 

[iajj]

They did commit genocide actually when Qing acquired Xinjiang.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide

china has committed so many "genocides" in western territories over the last thirty centuries that the moral force implied in using the label must dissipate over each use. for people understand that each turk tribe we wiped out there was just transplanted after the last round of wiping out, and that each turk transplant was actually done at Chinese permission and sometimes outright Chinese planning - and that each new round of wiping out was instigated and even necessitated only by misbehavior of the new nomads we had freshly swapped into our western territories. each eviction was done purely in the spirit of punishing unruly behavior and turk ingratitude.

the more rounds of "genocides" you cite, the better Chinese look in executing them. rootless turks, those pitiless ingrates, just deserved to be slaughtered cyclically.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Call it colonialism if you must- it's paid with cash and not brutal conquest and invasion commited by Western imperialists.

In other words, these people are inviting China to come colonize them haha.

 

[terranMarine]

And you shall...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/02/china-zimbabwe-workers-abuse

These are not isolated incidents. HRW documents shows that while on the surface, China's claim to have a non-interference policy of a host country's affairs, that policy is not observed while at the same time serves as cover to China's support of Africa's worst strongmen, such as Mugabe...

...Or dos Santos...

http://www.reuters.com/article/angola-china-idUSL5N0YV1R220150609

In return, these African countries agreed to support China at the UN on any issue China deems beneficial to China, even only to China.

You guys have no problems calling South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines as US colonial subjects, as you stretches the definition of the word 'colonialism', so face up to what your China is doing in Africa when much of that definition applies to China.

You call that proof of Colonialism? Damn Old man your definition is really stretching it.
Since Japan lost WW2 and US has been occupying it ever since, is it not a US colony? South Korea is also hosting US troops, forcing it to deploy THAAD and now even pressuring her to pay the $1 bln for using that system. Both Japan and SK have been complaining about the expenses for US military and Trump wants them to pay even more.
It's like holding a gun pointing at their head.

Have you not heard what Bush said to his allies? Either you are with us or against us, how he forced his allies to support America going to war.

African countries are supporting China, we don't force them to pay, we don't rob, we don't steal. Instead we do investments and construct. Just as the PCA ruling last year, over 70 countries supported China, many from Africa and almost all from the ME region. It's like you are saying ME is China's colony.

 

[shadows888]

Franky i think the Chinese are too soft. being brutal worked well for Europeans. when your deed is done, just "apologize". I'm fine with China being more aggressive, because at the end of the day winners write history anyway lmao.

 

[terranMarine]

They did commit genocide actually when Qing acquired Xinjiang.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide

The situation is somehow different compared to Europeans or even Imperial Japan. Europeans went to America and Australia for occupation and massacre. Japanese wanted to conquer South East Asia and China and in her conquest committed genocide on East Asians and South East Asian.
Dzungar on the other hand was trying to conquer Mongolia, other parts of China and perhaps even China. Qing and others were waging wars against Dzungar so they were killed during war times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_conquest_of_Altishahr

Just showing Qing "genocide" the Dzungar without the above context can easily make one think China was the evil one.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Africans welcoming their colonizers. Why wouldn't they? China paid them for these colonies

Money makes the world go round. Paupers have no right to talk.

In other words, no money no talk.

 

[gambit]

You call that proof of Colonialism?

See post 26. Your friend put it bluntly enough you cannot deny what China is really doing in Africa.

Colonialism via violence is too passe. Too gauche. Too 'uncivilized'. Bad public relations. At least with money both of you can hide behind the cover of development.

In the case of South Korea and Japan, at least their citizenry have a voice while in Africa, dictators do what China want regardless of what ordinary Africans say. There is no valid comparison between the two worlds, son, and your China knows it.

 

[Suika]

View attachment 394370

The situation is somehow different compared to Europeans or even Imperial Japan. Europeans went to America and Australia for occupation and massacre. Japanese wanted to conquer South East Asia and China and in her conquest committed genocide on East Asians and South East Asian.
Dzungar on the other hand was trying to conquer Mongolia, other parts of China and perhaps even China. Qing and others were waging wars against Dzungar so they were killed during war times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_conquest_of_Altishahr

View attachment 394387

View attachment 394386

Just showing Qing "genocide" the Dzungar without the above context can easily make one think China was the evil one.

Well.. you stated that China did not conduct any genocide. That is false as I was showing an example. I wasn't trying to use it to imply that the Chinese were more evil in the past than other countries.

Rather it goes to show that countries were all pretty much the same back then. If they were strong, then they slaughtered the weaker and became bigger. If they were weak, then they got slaughter and get reduced or conquered. It was back and fourth between China and various Islamic nations in the western areas just as there was a lot of back and fourth between the Muslim world and Christendom in Turkey, Balkins, North Africa, and Spain. That kind of stuff just happans on the frontier areas. I found it a little sickening that some try using old history like these to claim a moral superiority for today's countries.

If one wants to talk about today, one only has to look at which major country is better at collecting allies, and it is undoubtedly the US.

 

[terranMarine]

Well.. you stated that China did not conduct any genocide. That is false as I was showing an example. I wasn't trying to use it to imply that the Chinese were more evil in the past than other countries.

Rather it goes to show that countries were all pretty much the same back then. If they were strong, then they slaughtered the weaker and became bigger. If they were weak, then they got slaughter and get reduced or conquered. It was back and fourth between China and various Islamic nations in the western areas just as there was a lot of back and fourth between the Muslim world and Christendom in Turkey, Balkins, North Africa, and Spain. That kind of stuff just happans on the frontier areas. I found it a little sickening that some try using old history like these to claim a moral superiority for today's countries.

If one wants to talk about today, one only has to look at which major country is better at collecting allies, and it is undoubtedly the US.

Sickening? I find it rather extremely disturbing how US has been bombing countries for the past decades, now that's sickening. For thousands of years wars have been waged, but to see how some people today are treating ancient China to "modern" times the same as what the Europeans or Imperial Japan did that's pretty sick. US who threw 2 atomic bombs, Agent Orange. Even Japan used bio chemical weapons. China at least has better moral compared to Europeans, US and even the Japs. The only thing you can dig up is the Dzungars menace which led Qing and the allies to "genocide" them.

 

[Suika]

Sickening? I find it rather extremely disturbing how US has been bombing countries for the past decades, now that's sickening. For thousands of years wars have been waged, but to see how some people today are treating ancient China to "modern" times the same as what the Europeans or Imperial Japan did that's pretty sick. US who threw 2 atomic bombs, Agent Orange. Even Japan used bio chemical weapons. China at least has better moral compared to Europeans, US and even the Japs. The only thing you can dig up is the Dzungars menace which led Qing and the allies to "genocide" them.

China didn't do all those things that the the US, Great Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Japan, and Russia did because they were weak. Nothing about moral superiority.

China's great economic raise happened in the post-Cold War era. No one interferes with China's great growth. Lots of people in different countries were even supportive. Post-WW2 and Post-Cold War saw an end to military competition between major world powers. China seems bent on recreating that era for some reason despite enjoying economic success.

 

[Dungeness]

It's funny, they can always come up with a new accusation whenever they lost a bid to Chinese. Chinese call it "Envy-Jealousy-Hatred". Very soon, they are going to call China "Hegemony" even if China doesn't fire a single shot.

Having said that, there is definitely an element of over-investment, and the precise figure is yet to be ascertained. As and when each project will come on-stream, we will get a better picture as to which ones are truly beneficial and which are debt albatrosses around the neck.

The topic here is if China is the World's new colonial power, and you are talking about if a China invested project has achieved its original goal?

 

[Suika]

It's funny, they can always come up with a new accusation whenever they lost a bid to Chinese. Chinese call it "Envy-Jealousy-Hatred". Very soon, they are going to call China "Hegemony" even if China doesn't fire a single shot.



The topic here is if China is the World's new colonial power, and you are talking about if a China invested project has achieved its original goal?

The point that seems to continuously be missed by the patriots of China is that almost everyone is in opposition to China replacing the US as the top country. That means that they will all support the US instead of supporting China. There's no way that China can over take the US-Japan-India-Great Britain-Australia-Vietnam-the Philippines-etc and etc.

Of course the US is not a perfect country. And theoretically, it should be possible that there could be a very big country that could be more attractive as the top country than the US. But China fails to understand how to do it, nor do they seem interested. If China could be the better role model country than the US, then China would gather a ring of supporting countries and become a truely incredible central kingdom that becomes the truely geopolitical, economical, cultural, humanities hub for human kind on earth. They have the size and geographical location for that role. But instead, they lock away freedom of speech, and put out a give me give me, I take screw you I take screw you attitude, and it is no wonder they gather very little international support. The way so many of China's patriots rebuttal in such a combative way on these respectable boards against everyone in opposition is further evidence of it.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

The point that seems to continuously be missed by the patriots of China is that almost everyone is in opposition to China replacing the US as the top country. That means that they will all support the US instead of supporting China. There's no way that China can over take the US-Japan-India-Great Britain-Australia-Vietnam-the Philippines-etc and etc.

Of course the US is not a perfect country. And theoretically, it should be possible that there could be a very big country that could be more attractive as the top country than the US. But China fails to understand how to do it, nor do they seem interested. If China could be the better role model country than the US, then China would gather a ring of supporting countries and become a truely incredible central kingdom that becomes the truely geopolitical, economical, cultural, humanities hub for human kind on earth. They have the size and geographical location for that role. But instead, they lock away freedom of speech, and put out a give me give me, I take screw you I take screw you attitude, and it is no wonder they gather very little international support. The way so many of China's patriots rebuttal in such a combative way on these respectable boards against everyone in opposition is further evidence of it.

what a bizzare point of view. As if China has no friends at all.

 

[Suika]

what a bizzare point of view. As if China has no friends at all.

Geopolitically speaking, they have a few. Strongest is of course Russia. But others are not so much. Pakistan, North Korea, Venezuela, and then to some extent, Iran, South Africa, and Cambodia. Maybe Serbia. And the a few more that are slight towards China such as, perhaps, Malaysia.

If this the crew that China plans on overthrowing US supremacy, then it won't happen.