Is China headed for a clash of cultures as Xi Jinping fuses Confucius and Marx?

[beijingwalker]

Is China headed for a clash of cultures as Xi Jinping fuses Confucius and Marx?

• Xi Jinping’s vision is producing an unlikely and contradictory brew of Confucian communism, yoked to the service of a unifying state ideology

Paul F. Scotchmer

Published: 4:10pm, 27 Jul, 2019

A performance of a rite of passage for young women during Confucius’ time, at a village in Zoucheng, Shandong province. The renaissance of Confucianism has led to such performances becoming popular tourist attractions. Under Mao’s leadership, The Analects was banned, artefacts were destroyed, and temples were turned into libraries and museums. Photo: Xiaomei Chen

Soon after becoming general secretary of the Communist Party of China, Xi Jinping revealed his vision for a more distinctly Chinese direction for his country and has strongly encouraged a
renaissance of Confucianism
in China. Yet Marxism – a European import – remains the ideological framework of the government. It would seem, then, that China is headed for an internal clash of cultures.
Xi's cultural tack is diametrically opposed to that of
Mao Zedong
, who dismissed Confucianism as a retrograde social philosophy that could only dampen the revolutionary fire. Under Mao's leadership, The Analectswas banned, artefacts were destroyed, and temples were turned into libraries and museums.
Mao’s contempt for Confucianism was consistent with the materialist conception of history, which lies at the core of Marxist thought. By this view, social standards and religious beliefs are simply reflections of a given mode of production. As Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels put it in The Communist Manifesto: “Law, morality, religion” are nothing more than “bourgeois prejudices, behind which lurk in ambush just as many bourgeois interests”. With his attacks on Confucianism, Mao was simply helping history along, as it were.

By this logic, Xi is now reversing the course of history. In a 2014 address to the International Confucian Association on the 2,565th anniversary of Confucius’ birth, Xi praised Confucianism as “the cultural soil that nourishes the Chinese people”. He also used terms alien to the materialist political philosophy which underpins the Communist Party. “Confucianism,” he said, is the key to “understanding the national characteristics of the Chinese as well as the historical roots of the spiritual world of the present-day Chinese”.

In addition to acknowledging Confucius’ historic influence in China, Xi underscored his relevance for the future. “Some people of insight,” he observed, “believe that the traditional culture of China, Confucianism included, contains important inspirations for solving the troubles facing us today.” Xi then spelt out several traditional ideas that could benefit Chinese society, mostly by helping to reduce corruption in government.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinio...-cultures-xi-jinping-fuses-confucius-and-marx

 

[khansaheeb]

Step by step to past Imperial glory as China strips herself of Communism?

 

[gambit]

Step by step to past Imperial glory as China strips herself of Communism?

Where else could China go but the past? We are looking at decades of economic disaster, social and cultural upheavals, and a few million deaths just so a few elites can finally admit that 'mistakes were made' under communism.

 

[khansaheeb]

As China sheds the communist clothes will it bare the beauty or the beast?

 

[lcloo]

(1.5) 子曰：
道千乘之國，敬事而信，
節用而愛人，使民以時。

孔子说：
“治理一个拥有一千辆兵车的国家，就要严谨认真地办理国家大事而又恪守信用，诚实无欺，节约财政开支而又爱护官吏臣僚，役使百姓要不误农时”。

孔子在本章中所说的话，主要是对国家的执政者而言的，是关于治理国家的基本原则。他讲了三个方面的问题，即要求统治者严肃认真地办理国家各方面事务，恪守信用；节约用度，爱护官吏；役使百姓应注意不误农时等。这是治国安邦的基本点。

康有为说，孔子的学说是“爱人”，泛爱一切人。但本章里所说的“爱人”则非此意。他所说的“人”不是百姓，而是官吏，是有地位的人；而“民”才是百姓，是被治者役使的对象。可见，“爱人”不是爱一切人，而只是爱统治集团中的人。“节用而爱人，使民以时”的思想是合理的，反映了孔子的社会思想。但这与“爱人”与否则无太大干系。从另一个角度说，孔子这里是为统治者治理国家、统治百姓出谋划策。


Confucius's 2,500 years old teaching is still very much relevant today. The above teaching by Confucius stated that in order to govern a country with great power, the leader must diligently manage the national affairs with trust, dependable, no corruption, properly manage financial budget, and be provided for government officials, and work to make sure the people do not miss the farming planting and harvesting time. (Farming is the main economy 2,500 years ago).

 

[gambit]

As China sheds the communist clothes will it bare the beauty or the beast?

It depends on how China's leadership, meaning the political and economic elites, views that era.

Hindsight often soothes or even erases the pain of the consequences of major decisions. We can see that in this forum where the Chinese members dismisses credible reports of how China was during the Mao era as CIA plots or from Western racism. If the communist decades are agreed as detrimental to China, then the 'new' China should be a beauty, but unlikely that will ever happens. The communist decades have already been dismissed as merely a 'mistake', meaning something that was well intention but poorly executed. Unlike a 'sin' where there is remorse, a 'mistake' is something that can be shrugged off.

 

[CHN Bamboo]

“拿伊斯兰教举例子吧。在穆罕默德时期这样的宗教绝对有很多优点，不然也打不下庞大的疆土，建立强盛的国家。

但到了现在，社会进步这么大，多少优点已成为世间公理，伊斯兰剩下的特点，基本就全是缺点了。

儒家也一样。”

用儒家来重建道德，这是不可能的。

或者说，必须对儒家思想进行彻底的“取其精华，去其糟粕”，才有可能利用儒家的重建。

抛开儒家的政治性，仅仅从其道德层面、教育层面来进行重新解读，并且让大众理解，这才有些许可能。

I do not deny that in the long history of Confucianism is a treasure, is once a very good system of thought.

But the traditional is not necessarily good.

 

[beijingwalker]

Some old American guy has his mind stuck over half a century ago and can never get out of it, somebody helps him.

 

[lcloo]

I do not deny that in the long history of Confucianism is a treasure, is once a very good system of thought.

But the traditional is not necessarily good.

Yes, take from Confucius teaching on what is relevant to today's world and discard the irrelevant is the way to go. Here is another one from the wise old man, which is good but need modification in today's world.

(2.3) 子曰：
道之以政，齊之以刑，民免而無恥；
道之以德，齊之以禮，有恥且格。

孔子说：
“用法制禁令去引导百姓，使用刑法来约束他们，老百姓只是求得免于犯罪受惩，却失去了廉耻之心；用道德教化引导百姓，使用礼制去统一百姓的言行，百姓不仅会有羞耻之心，而且也就守规矩了。”

【评析】 在本章中，孔子举出两种截然不同的治国方针。孔子认为，刑罚只能使人避免犯罪，不能使人懂得犯罪可耻的道理，而道德教化比刑罚要高明得多，既能使百姓守规蹈矩，又能使百姓有知耻之心。这反映了道德在治理国家时有不同于法制的特点。但也应指出：孔子的“为政以德”思想，重视道德是应该的，但却忽视了刑政、法制在治理国家中的作用。

(2.3) Confucius said:

"With the prohibitive legal laws to guide the people, use of criminal law to restrain them, the common people stay away from crime to avoid punishment, but lost the heart of shame; Using virtue to guide people's action and speech, they will be conscious of the shame of misbehaving and criminal acts, and will obey the law."

" In this chapter, Confucius cites two distinct approaches to governance. Confucius believed that the punishment can only make people avoid crime, but it can not make people understand the shameful truth of crime, and moral indoctrination is much effective than penalty, not only can make the people abide by the rules, but also make the people have a sense of shame. This reflects the fact that morality has different characteristics from the rule of law when it comes to governing the country.

However, it should also be pointed out that Confucius's "for politics and virtue" thought, pay attention to morality is right, but ignored the important role of criminal administration and the rule of law in the governance of the country.

 

[Zsari]

Both are based on collectivism so they are not fundamentally in conflict.

 

[prashantazazel]

I think China will keep modernising on similar lines as Europe. Educated people tend to find common ground.

 

[zectech]

Who keeps the old akindle and adds new knowledge is fitted to be a teacher. Confucius

Yes, take from Confucius teaching on what is relevant to today's world and discard the irrelevant is the way to go.

If China is discarding some of Confucius, then China must be rich indeed.

 

[8888888888888]

It's a mistake , it was those officials in the late Qing dynasty that used Confucianism as an excuse not to modernize. If he is following Confucianism no wonder China's reforms are slowing down.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Is China headed for a clash of cultures as Xi Jinping fuses Confucius and Marx?

• Xi Jinping’s vision is producing an unlikely and contradictory brew of Confucian communism, yoked to the service of a unifying state ideology

Paul F. Scotchmer

Published: 4:10pm, 27 Jul, 2019

A performance of a rite of passage for young women during Confucius’ time, at a village in Zoucheng, Shandong province. The renaissance of Confucianism has led to such performances becoming popular tourist attractions. Under Mao’s leadership, The Analects was banned, artefacts were destroyed, and temples were turned into libraries and museums. Photo: Xiaomei Chen

Soon after becoming general secretary of the Communist Party of China, Xi Jinping revealed his vision for a more distinctly Chinese direction for his country and has strongly encouraged a
renaissance of Confucianism
in China. Yet Marxism – a European import – remains the ideological framework of the government. It would seem, then, that China is headed for an internal clash of cultures.
Xi's cultural tack is diametrically opposed to that of
Mao Zedong
, who dismissed Confucianism as a retrograde social philosophy that could only dampen the revolutionary fire. Under Mao's leadership, The Analectswas banned, artefacts were destroyed, and temples were turned into libraries and museums.
Mao’s contempt for Confucianism was consistent with the materialist conception of history, which lies at the core of Marxist thought. By this view, social standards and religious beliefs are simply reflections of a given mode of production. As Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels put it in The Communist Manifesto: “Law, morality, religion” are nothing more than “bourgeois prejudices, behind which lurk in ambush just as many bourgeois interests”. With his attacks on Confucianism, Mao was simply helping history along, as it were.

By this logic, Xi is now reversing the course of history. In a 2014 address to the International Confucian Association on the 2,565th anniversary of Confucius’ birth, Xi praised Confucianism as “the cultural soil that nourishes the Chinese people”. He also used terms alien to the materialist political philosophy which underpins the Communist Party. “Confucianism,” he said, is the key to “understanding the national characteristics of the Chinese as well as the historical roots of the spiritual world of the present-day Chinese”.

In addition to acknowledging Confucius’ historic influence in China, Xi underscored his relevance for the future. “Some people of insight,” he observed, “believe that the traditional culture of China, Confucianism included, contains important inspirations for solving the troubles facing us today.” Xi then spelt out several traditional ideas that could benefit Chinese society, mostly by helping to reduce corruption in government.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinio...-cultures-xi-jinping-fuses-confucius-and-marx

Frankly, ideology in modern day China matters little. Because ideology is not important. What is important is who has the power and what that person wants to say.

That is the reason why despite being communist, even proper communists who want to question the state are jailed and tortured. Remember the Peking University Marxists who were thrown in jail?

Similarly, I am sure the day Confucians who question the powers to be about their responsibility and duties will soon be thrown into prison as well.

The fundamental ideology of CCP and Xi Jinping is that what they say is the truth and must be believed blindly. It can't be questioned, logically or empirically.

This makes the whole set up geared towards either opportunists who will believe whatever they are said to believe, or towards actual low intelligence people who will believe whatever they are said to believe.

 

[Nan Yang]

Frankly, ideology in modern day China matters little. Because ideology is not important. What is important is who has the power and what that person wants to say.

That is the reason why despite being communist, even proper communists who want to question the state are jailed and tortured. Remember the Peking University Marxists who were thrown in jail?

Similarly, I am sure the day Confucians who question the powers to be about their responsibility and duties will soon be thrown into prison as well.

The fundamental ideology of CCP and Xi Jinping is that what they say is the truth and must be believed blindly. It can't be questioned, logically or empirically.

This makes the whole set up geared towards either opportunists who will believe whatever they are said to believe, or towards actual low intelligence people who will believe whatever they are said to believe.

Errrrr.... No. If you follow Chinese internal and foreign policy closely it has always follow Confucius doctrine very closely.
Even before Xi.