Is ATAGS A Better Artillery Gun Than Bofors? | Watch DRDO's ATAGS In Action

[fsayed]

 

[$@rJen]

from Quora .. this may help you, I'm not sure what you're looking for is entirely available.


First, the short answer.

• Dhanush: It is based on Bofors design. It was developed to deliver new Howitzers to the Indian Army as quickly as possible. Only tried and tested technologies already available with DRDO were incorporated. The primary difference is the calibers (39 vs 45), the weight (lower by 2000 kg) and the rate of fire.
• ATAGS: This is developed from scratch, based on long term tactical technical requirements provided by the army. The changes are there in the calibers (39, 45 and now 52), Rate of fire, Coverage and Mobility.

Now, the long answer:

First lets review information that will help us understand the workings of a Howitizer and why the Indian Army requirement for the Howitzer seems and is such a convoluted mess.

First, lets understand the basis on which we can compare one Howitizer to another.

1. The Range, which is dependent on the calibers. Calibers is the ratio of the barrel length to barrel bore. The larger the calibers, the longer the barrel. The longer the barrel, the more time the propellant gases have to act on the shell, thereby giving the shell a longer range. A longer barrel also guides the shell for an additional distance, improving the accuracy.
   
   Increasing barrel length is not a simple matter. The weight will be higher, the power requirements will be higher and transportability and maneuverability will suffer. A longer barrel will bend due to its own weight and will wear out faster since the propellant gases interact with the barrel for a longer time. The weight & power issues can be mitigated through lighter, stronger and wear resistant alloys, which increase the cost.
   
   The range also depends on the maximum amount of propellant that can be burnt during the firing of the shell. In a Howitzer the primer, propellant, projectile and fuse (for explosive projectiles) are not a single integrated unit, each of them is separate. The amount of propellant can be changed to achieve the distance to target. Closer targets will have smaller loads of propellant.
2. The firing rate, in burst mode and sustained mode. The rate of fire in burst mode is the most important, since the maximum human and material damage to enemy occurs during the first few seconds/minutes. A well trained and prepared opponent team can move out of the kill zone in less than a minute.
   
   Sustained fire comes next in the order of importance, it is used to pin enemy forces to a single location, or to damage equipment or buildings.
   
   An Howitzer shell is extremely powerful, a single shell weighs around 40 - 50 kgs, and can carry upto 10 kg of explosive. A single plain simple Kinetic Enery shell can penetrate through 10 meters of concrete.
3. Operations Capability & Ease - Coverage Area, Target Acquisition, Shoot & Scoot ability & Ease of Operations
   
   The coverage area of a howitzer is fixed by its elevation and traverse. The vertical movement of the tip of the barrel, i.e. movement up or down is called elevation. The horizontal movement of the barrel tip, i.e. left or right is called traverse. Howitzers have large elevation (+70 degrees up, -5 degrees down), relatively small traverse (+/- 20 degrees). In contrast, tanks have limited elevation (+20/-10) and a very large traverse. Tanks can fire while moving, howitzers cant.
   
   Shoot and Scoot ability refers to the time taken to setup the gun ammunition and other support systems; fire at a target for few minutes; disassemble the gun and support systems; move to another location a few hundred meters away; and do the whole thing again. This is to avoid becoming a stationary target for the enemy. Incorporating ability to do this is not simple. Unlike a tank, which has heavy body mass to absorb the recoil, a Howitzer transmits the recoil to the ground using “spades”.
   
   Target Acquisition can be through Optical or Thermal sights. The gun must also be able to handle externally provided coordinates. They could be Radar devices assisted with Laser Range finders as well as GPS or Inertial GPS (Inertial GPS = relative coordinates from a fixed point) based systems.
   
   Each of the operations of ammunition handling, opening and closing breech, aiming and firing can be automated. The Fire Control System coordinates all these tasks and usually depends on a fire control computer.
   
   Howitzers can be part of a communications network with other Howitzers, MBRL’s and tanks. All artillery can act in tandem to provide coordinated and sustained fire.
4. Other Characteristics
   1. Speed of transportation, time taken to fire first round, after the howitzer has been transported to firing location
   2. Type of fuel, range on a full tank, ability to be handle different terrain (desert, marshes, mountains), max gradient of climb under own power, ability to be immersed in water with no damage.
   3. Weight, Size, Ground Clearance and the size of the operating crew

Having understood the key differentiation points between howitzers, lets also review India’s Howitzer procurement history from the early 1980’s in brief. This will help us understand why so many different type of Howitzers are being procured.

• 1986 - Contract signed for acquiring 410 Bofors/Haubits FH77B Howitzers. It also included a technology transfer and local manufacture agreement for an additional 1000 Howitizers.
• 1987 - 1990 - The Bofors Scandal breaks out. The final shipment arrives in 1990. The design documents have been handed over, but no technology transfer has happened.
• 1991 - 1998 - Due to the scam, neither are additional Howizters imported, nor are they locally made. Quite a few the 410 original Howizters are out of action due lack of spare parts to repair the wear and tear. In 1998 India goes nuclear. So does Pakistan. China is already nuclear.
• 1999 - The Kargil war brings to the fore the importance of heavy artillery in mountain warfare, especially when operating under international diplomatic pressure to reduce/confine the conflict to avoid a nuclear confrontation. During the war 5000 shells per day are fired. 9000 shells are fired on the day Tiger Hill is recaptured. 40 Howitzers wear out completely.
  
  DRDO is able to manufacture only limited spares. India has no option but to import spare parts from Bofors to keep the existing Howitzers in action. Kalyani group is asked to manufacture ammunition.
  
  During the same period China starts reasserting itself militarily in the Indo China Border. Pakistan moves closer to China, while India moves closer to the US. The probability of a simultaneous conflict with Pakistan and China increases.
• 2000 - 2010 - Pakistan’s desperation increases, Parliament and the Mumbai attacks happen. India crystallizes the “Cold Start” doctrine to handle Pakistan and the 17′th Mountain Corps to handle China. Howitzers are desperately needed, since they are possibly the most effective weapon in the mountains. However, the defense establishment is too scared to import them. There is no local capability within OFB. There is no private sector capability as well.

The number of Howitzers the Indian Army needed was between 2000 to 3000, with the supply situation completely deadlocked. During 2010 - 2013 an idea was born - local manufacture of Howitzers based on the Bofors design.

DRDO’s ARDE went through the design documents handed by Bofors to OFB two decades earlier and attempted to build a Howitzer. It took time and effort, including some significant failures. The biggest failure was in 2013, when the barrel of the test gun burst during desert testing at Pokharan. The personnel were demotivated, confidence at DRDO, OFB and the Army was low and the project was almost scrapped. However, the project kept moving forward and the project finally became a success.

The outcome of that project is the Dhanush. Dhanush is based on the Bofors/Haubits F77B Howitzer design, with minimal modifications. The aim of the project was to handover a working Howitzer to the Army, as soon as possible.

The ATAGS - Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System is different. The Army, based on Kargil and other experiences, listed out the tactical field requirements they had from a Howitzer. They were (a) The Range, Coverage, Burst fire rate, Sustained fire rate (b) Transport and Maneuverability (c) Automation and (d) Communication. The ATAGS Howitzer was developed from scratch, to meet the field requirements.

Now finally, the the technical comparison:

1. --------------- ------------ ------------ -----------
2. FH77B Dhanush ARDE
3. --------------- ------------ ------------ -----------
4. Calibers 39 45 52
5. Range - km 27 38 45
6. Burst - rpm 3/12s 3/12s 6/30s,15/3m
7. Sustained 3/1m,20m 60/60m 60/60m
8. Weight 13,100 kg 11,00 kg 16,000 kg
9. Crew 9 - 14 6-8 6-8
10. Elevation -5/+70 -3/+70 greater than -3/+70
11. Traverse +30/-30 +25/-25 +25/-25
12. Speed 6 km/hr 6 km/hr 12 km/hr
13. Feed System Hydraulic Hydraulic Servo-Electric
14. Target Acq Opt/Therm Opt/Therm Opt/Therm/Inertial
15. Recoil System Hydro/Pneu Hydro/Pneu Electro/Magneto-rheological
16. Communicaton Radio Shakti/StarV Shakti/StarV

 

[GodToons]

Sir, Product looks good.

Let discuss about product instead of making troll bait using 'Pakistan' name. It will spoil the thread.

 

[fsayed]

 

[MULUBJA]

Sure because it has a 50% longer range and great fire power along with many more goodies.

 

[fsayed]

 

[SrNair]

AFAIK IA is totally satisfied with this system.
And are in full support mode

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

ATAGS is a far superior system to bofors .Its a new gen gun with several innovative features.

1.First its a 52 calibre gun compared to 39 calibre bofors or 45 calibre dhanush.This gives it 40-50% increased base range.Ofcourse it can fire special rocket assisted shells or PGMs to increase range even more.

2.It has an impressive chamber size of 25 litres.This is better than the older bofors,israeli athos,french trajan,russian msta-s ,american m109 which have 23 litres.Only latest guns like swedish archer have 25 litre chamber.This means the shells are going to be more destructive due to more propellant charge.

3.Its more automated with gun crew of 6-8 compared to bofors 9-14.This is a great manpower/training cost saving for the army and also lessens casualities to counterbattery fire.

4.It has MRSI capability(multiple round simultaneous impact due to seperate projectile trajectories,thus 3 shells fired while land almost at the same time and casualities from the initial first barrage will be maximized as enemy has no chance to take cover before a huge volume of firepower falls on his head).
It has 6 round automated magazine compared to 3 for most guns.This means it can rapid fire 6 rounds in less than 30 seconds.Most artillery losses take place in initial surprise barrage .So a battery of 6 guns can devastate a region with 36 heavy rounds in less than 30 seconds.

5.It has all-electric drive to tackle the ammunition handling and loading tasks.This automation leads to lowe crew requirement and much superior and reliable to hydraulic drive .

6.Production chain is wholly indigenized and streamlined.OFB and Kalyani make the barrels.TATA,Mahindra and Punj Lloyd make the other components.Massive private sector participation.

The ATAGS gun is focused on brute force.Dhanush is a filler gun for us,as bofors numbers are down to 200.And M777 and 105 mm will be the key in remote mountain areas(can traverse narrow mountain roads,easy positioning,easy airlifting,smaller logistics burden and lightweight)