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Is Asean Losing Its Way?

Ahahahahaha........that was a funny one bro.:lol:
We can agree to disagree on this one then. I made my point you made yours, as long as there is no personal attacks and we all keep it civil and on point then that's OK..:cheers:
no, I remember have never attacked you personally, just challenged your view. we both agree to disagree. I find every amusing, every time Asean comes up to discussion, Indo members step in and declare they are the boss. or posters outside of the asean bloc support and cheer the stupid idea.

if anyone within Asean nations thinks they can turn down the basic Asean principles, and do as they please, it may be the best solution if they quit the bloc and seek their leading role elsewhere. I post here for the benefits for some people here, the principles. among those: the Non-interference agreement. or everyone accepts the reality as it is. I believe to one thing: if Indonesia thinks they want to help easing the SC Sea tension, they are welcome to do.

Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) | Treaties & Regimes | NTI

Fundamental Principles: The Treaty of Amity and Cooperation (TAC) in Southeast Asia, signed at the First ASEAN Summit on 24 February 1976, declared that in their relations with one another, the High Contracting Parties should be guided by the following fundamental principles:
  • Mutual respect for the independence, sovereignty, equality, territorial integrity, and national identity of all nations;
  • The right of every State to lead its national existence free from external interference, subversion, or coercion;
  • Non-interference in the internal affairs of one another;
  • Settlement of differences or disputes by peaceful manner;
  • Renunciation of the threat or use of force; and
  • Effective cooperation among themselves.
 
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Interesting reading
http://www.eastwestcenter.org/system/tdf/private/apb323.pdf?file=1&type=node&id=35328

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If ASEAN members check their historic records SCS never was an issue before 1970s. China's 9 dotted lines were not challenged decades after it was announced.
 
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If ASEAN members check their historic records SCS never was an issue before 1970s. China's 9 dotted lines were not challenged decades after it was announced.

Oh please spare us your propaganda no one believes that crap you people don't even have the evidence its not even logical since "ancient times" oh please you people just like everyone else in Asia use the sea as high way not as your national lake that idea of china owning using that line is so illogical.
 
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Is Asean Losing Its Way?

YES. If Indonesia decides to go its own way.

MAYBE. It is just not possible to get consensus from all 10 members all the time.
 
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A more "uplifting" article...

ASEAN can survive Great Power rivalry in Asia
Predictions of ASEAN's marginalisation have all proven exaggerated, and the group can survive Great-Power rivalry in Asia.


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The ASEAN group has a key role to play in regional stability. AP
by Amitav Acharya
Pundits and policymakers increasingly see changing Great Power politics in Asia as a challenge to ASEAN. China's growing military assertiveness in the South China Sea, the US "rebalancing" strategy, Japan's moves to reinterpret its constitution, and India's growing military presence and assertive diplomacy all press upon ASEAN's choices in the region.

Some argue that ASEAN is both toothless and clueless in responding to these changes. Seen as "talk shops", ASEAN's regional institutions – the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF), ASEAN+3, ASEAN+6 and the East Asian Summit (EAS) – might have been sufficient when Great Power relations were less volatile right after the Cold War, but they have outlived their usefulness. "ASEAN centrality", and even its very survival, is being written off.

But this critique misses a major point. ASEAN's challenges are less about its external environment than strains in internal cohesion and capacity. The external environment actually reinforces ASEAN's security role. If unity holds and it scales back its ambitions, ASEAN can survive and play an effective role in managing Great Power competition, at least in south-east Asia.

Traditional perspectives on the nature of Great Power politics are helpful in understanding ASEAN's role in the region. John Mearsheimer argues that rising powers must expand to survive, often leading them to seek regional hegemony and provoking conflict. Others argue that international stability is a function of the number of Great Powers and the distribution of capabilities among them. A multipolar system is more prone to instability and conflict than a bipolar or unipolar one.

These perspectives would point to a bleak future for ASEAN. Chinese regional hegemony, whether coercive or benign, is bad news. It would certainly cover at least parts of south-east Asia, including South China Sea claimants. A multipolar system dominated by Great Powers also gives little space to smaller, weaker states.

Chinese moves in the South and East China Seas and Russian moves in Ukraine give credence to this view of the world. Some see these developments as signs of expansionism, a "return of geopolitics" and the resurrection of 19th-century European geopolitics in Asia.

There are alternative interpretations of what is happening in the world. Hedley Bull stressed the special responsibility of the Great Powers in managing international order. Karl Deutsch and David Singer rejected the idea that multipolarity invariably leads to Great Power competition and conflict. It may make a potential aggressor less sure about its alignments and the size and power of a countervailing coalition.

At the core of all these ideas is the assumption of Great Power primacy in maintaining stability. None recognises the influence of smaller, weaker players on Great Power politics. If traditional perspectives were correct, ASEAN would have been doomed from its birth in 1967.


ASEAN is an anomaly. It has contributed significantly to reducing and managing conflict in south-east Asia. Asia is now the only region in history where the strong live in the world of the weak, and the weak lead the strong. Its record may have been mixed, but the experience of ASEAN turns traditional realism on its head.

Today the phrase "Great Power rivalry" is misleading. Significant and far-reaching co-operation exists at the regional and global levels. This is underpinned by a type of interdependence that did not exist a century ago.

The term multipolarity is also out of date. It referred mainly to the number of actors and the distribution of power among them, but it said much less about the substance and quality of their interactions. The dominant feature of the world and Asia today is not multipolarity but multiplexity.

A multiplex world differs greatly from a multipolar system. Actors are not just Great Powers or nation states, but international institutions, non-governmental organisations, multinational corporations and transnational networks.

A multiplex order is marked by complex global and regional linkages. Trade, finance and transnational production networks were sparse in pre-World War European economic interdependence. Interdependence today goes beyond economics, covering the environment, disease, human rights, social media and a range of other issues.

Multiplexity means multiple layers of governance. Regionalism is a key part of this, but regionalism today is open and overlapping. This is a far cry from 19th-century imperial blocs that fuelled Great Power competition and war.

There is currently no alternative to ASEAN's convening power in Asia. The Asia Pacific's Great Powers are not capable of leading Asian regional institutions because of mutual mistrust and a lack of legitimacy. Renewed Great Power competition actually supports "ASEAN centrality". China's Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank may challenge the principle of ASEAN centrality, but Chinese initiatives are qualified by China's problems in regional political and security issues.

ASEAN cannot take full advantage of this without unity or leadership (guess who?). Its impact will be limited if domestic politics constrains key members. So ASEAN needs to downsize its agenda to revitalise. It needs to focus on urgent issues within south-east Asia's immediate environment and forget about the Korean peninsula, the Taiwan Strait and India-Pakistan conflicts. As the convener and agenda-setter at the ARF and EAS, ASEAN should focus attention on the South China Sea, no matter what China says, while sharing more responsibilities with middle powers on transnational and global challenges.

Predictions of ASEAN's marginalisation have all proven to be exaggerated. It emerged stronger because it stepped up its act to cope with new strategic developments. Changing course now would compromise ASEAN's inner strength.

Amitav Acharya is the UNESCO chair in transnational challenges and governance and professor of international relations at the School of International Service, American University, Washington. This article is part of a series from East Asia Forum (www.eastasiaforum.org) in the Crawford School at the ANU.

AFR Contributor


Read more: ASEAN can survive Great Power rivalry in Asia | afr.com
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some ASEAN nations will die bcs they are not TPP members (actualy, the economy of that none TPP ASEAN one is sinking). So, just let them die, we will come and buy their countries like people buying Greece islands now

Thats the way to unify ASEAN region :)
 
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Some ASEAN nations will die because they become TPP member (actualy, the economy of that TPP member from ASEAN is peanut). So, let them die. When they are dying we can help ease their pain by raiding their remaining wealth and put a quick end to their regime. That way, we can bring the whole ASEAN region under control. :-)
 
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who care about vietnam? in or out? or just lying at the corner?
 
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You already answer your own question.

When Indonesia just possibly turning away, it's already made a headline. Apparently many people including Vietnam PDF poster care :coffee:

When Indonesia go out, I will say " Good Luck " to you. It is my care.
 
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Nah, Indonesia won't leave ASEAN. We are turning our attention out but will not leave this organization. ASEAN centrality and its member interest will not become Indonesia's interest. Every agenda will have to benefit Indonesia or we wont let it pass. Beneficial bilateral relation will get more attention and unfavorable, convoluted regional and multilateral issue will be abandoned. Cross our interest, and we will make sure to take action upon it.
 
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