Is alcohol available for pakistani military personnel?

[Awesome]

Qsaark, since when did Allah leave his throne and made you the judge of qualifying people as Mujahids or not.

Pakistan's laws are largely secular and we're trying to make them more so with our efforts. I think it definitely should be army business if there were alcoholic drunks in the army. Which is not the case and people drink in moderation. The Army has no business invoking religion. They can be having drunk orgies day in and out and thats no business of the state - nor army - not yours.

About your silly tussle here with Kasrkin, he never threatened to ban you, your comments warranted an argument not a ban, you insecurely jumped to the banning conclusion. Please learn to disagree calmly, because offtopic posts, commenting on other forums' business and especially commenting upon members of this forum are things that would warrant disciplinary action.

 

[Awesome]

Alcohol is available in Muslim countries all over. There are some silly laws against it, which everyone circumvents and the police doesn't care much about it.

Dubai's nightclubs are filled with Muslims primarily. The question of religion is never asked by the bartender.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It started as a general post---and look what turns and twists it has taken---.

 

[sonicboom]

Qsaark, since when did Allah leave his throne .......

No need to be a big mouth. Fear Allah and don't make mockery of Allah by making such statements.

.... and we're trying to make them more so with our efforts.

And who are you and who gave you the right to make Pakisatni laws secular? Pakistan is a muslim country and there is no room for secularism in Islam.

The Army has no business invoking religion. They can be having drunk orgies day in and out and thats no business of the state - nor army - not yours.

You try driving drunk or going to your work place drunk one day and then let me know what happens?

 

[muse]

Yet another example of why these people need putting down - the more you tolerate them, the more extreme they get - that's why they are the kind of danger they are - it's a giant plus to be rid of them before they make things worse for themselves and for others.


The paradox of tolerance.

 

[Awesome]

No need to be a big mouth. Fear Allah and don't make mockery of Allah by making such statements.

My fear of Allah is not in question here. Although your demand is more or less to fear Mullahs who have delusions of being god-like and their words holier than the Quran.

And who are you and who gave you the right to make Pakisatni laws secular? Pakistan is a muslim country and there is no room for secularism in Islam.

As a sensible citizen of Pakistan who is pushing for that change. Islam has no business butting into the matters of the state within Pakistan. It should be kept personal, nothing more nothing less.

You try driving drunk or going to your work place drunk one day and then let me know what happens?

No one has argued for drinking on duty. What the army personnel do offduty is of no concern to us. It's in fact a little nosy. Mullahs need to learn the meaning of "none of your business".

 

[Fracker]

I heard this line from many people don't know whether it is true or not..

"Those army generals who don't drink are seen in less rank then those who does.."

As a sensible citizen of Pakistan who is pushing for that change. Islam has no business butting into the matters of the state within Pakistan. It should be kept personal, nothing more nothing less.

That's true at the moment.. but truth not always implies as right.. Islamic state laws are meant for the state.. but unfortunate Pakistan is not Islamic state.. it is just muslim majority nation.. (I am talking generally.. not from point of view of Alcohol)

 

[SecularHumanist]

You try driving drunk or going to your work place drunk one day and then let me know what happens?

You take an extreme example of alcohol use to qualify your argument? There are laws against drunk driving in western countries for a reason. Btw what about the millions that drink and don't do any harm? Islamists will have everyone believe that all people who drink alcohol go around doing crazy stuff. Everything has to be judged and moral policing is their job because they have nothing better to do

 

[Awesome]

Yet another example of why these people need putting down - the more you tolerate them, the more extreme they get - that's why they are the kind of danger they are - it's a giant plus to be rid of them before they make things worse for themselves and for others.


The paradox of tolerance.

Hopefully if they don't start chanting "Death to the Secularists" they may just learn a thing or two if we keep them engaged in debate.

Restrictions on freedom have no Islamic grounds. People who want to drink, may drink (responsibly of course) and those who don't may not do so. They may even preach that its a sin, they may even warn against the social problems as well. But if someone says naah, we still want to, then they have to let that happen and just hope that they are more successful in their words the next time.

There is no violation of Islam in granting people their freedom. In fact, "There is no compulsion in Religion" is what the Quran says. What good is a Muslim who says "La illaha illalah" (There is no diety other than Allah) with a gun pointed to his or her head? Islam must be accepted, not coerced.

The Mullah is a dying breed, they must abandon their rigid ways, they must abandon the path of violence and one that curtails freedoms. It can be argued that their forced Islam may very well one day be the demise of Islam from our hearts since it is human nature to reject persecution, oppression and the whole big brother attitude.

 

[muse]

It can be argued that their forced Islam may very well one day be the demise of Islam from our hearts since it is human nature to reject persecution, oppression and the whole big brother attitude.

And this at the heart of my position - the net result of these radicals taking over the role of God, is to have alienated Muslims from Islam.

The same is true with regard to Shariah, by arguing by force of arms and compulsion, even on to death, that what is so clearly human law as divine, as if it was a law meant for gods, they have alienated Muslims from what is a important source of jurisprudence and the conduct of affairs.

Which leads us to the paradox of tolerance - we are, whether we are Muslims, Hindus, Christians, or Jews or Buddhists or Taoists, or of whatever confession, so offended by the idea that we are intolerant of others, that we entertain notions designed to destroy tolerance as a idea worthy of us. Do we tolerate to the extent that our existence is jeopardized? Clearly, no.

If only these were motivated by engagement in discussions and debates so that we may all better understand each other, so that we may come to agree - what agreement can be between those who say there is no compulsion in religion, and those for whom compulsion or "implement" is a central tenant?? What agreement can exist between those who say, as the founder of Pakistan has wanted, that one's religious faith and affiliation is not the business of the state but a personal matter and those who seek to use the state to compel others to their "truth"?? What agreement between predator and it's prey??

 

[mjnaushad]

yeh it is banned all over Pakistan its just that you can get alchohol easily even in a conservative city like Peshawar

So no one gets sleepless even if its banned.

I think its not banned completely. Minorities can buy them as its allowed in there religion. and by the way its available in PC Peshawar. You cant deny that.

 

[Kasrkin]

Thats enough nonsense from you Mr. Qsaark. Do not mistake my words to be a request. I know you and exactly what your situation was and what your situation is, given that I was involved. I know the pitiful reasons of your departure, I know the self-righteous reasons you gave and boasted about for your departure, I know the reasons you had a convenient change of heart too. We've been following your disgusting antics at your alternative place of membership as well, so indeed I know much.

There is no question of you having planed to come back, because have you been careless enough to forget that I was the one who pleaded with you to change your mind and retake a place here. Resisting the urge to make public the shockingly arrogant content of our some of your discourse to me at the time, I'll suffice to say you're back because of our good graces, and NOT because you're entitled to or because you deserve it. If you were ever confused about that point, then I've cleared it up for you now in public. If you were so sanguine about staying dismissed, then no one forced you to come back here. But since you're here, you're going to follow the rules and accept flak like everyone else in a debate.

Your last 3 posts consisted of nothing but ugly horse-crap you impulsively spew around every time your astounding arrogance prevents you from conceding or acknowledging a point made against you. Each and every bit of it enough to get you banned in itself. You've disrespected and taunted a mod and called him a bully for calling you out on your own words, you've essentially challenged me to ban you, expressing your supposed indifference to being banned and following rules, you've tried to sling mud at a respected member without any provocation when he was not so much as part of the discourse, then you've blatantly tried to capitalize on a rivalry with another forum and bad mouthed them which is against the rules (something you did against us too ironically in your time there) and worst of all you've tried to drive a wedge between a mod and an administrator, trying to dispute my rightful authority, given to me by the said administrator, to terminate your and other posting rights.

I'm not here to entertain debates about the rules and your inability to follow them. I am here to enforce them and this the end of the line for you. This will not stand, reform your attention starved and inherently insecure tendencies or I will enforce a termination of your posting rights. You must realize that you've dug your own grave here, jumped in it and thrown me the shovel. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking for one second that I don't have the authority to ban you permanently without so much as an eyebrow being raised.

Indulge in spirited, mature, responsible and sporty debate without lashing out childishly at others. Just because a point is made again your views, doesn't mean we're out to get you. You'd have to be incredibility conceited and unbelievably paranoid to feel otherwise. The ball is in your court now, accept the rules as I present them and as everyone else follows them, or accept the repercussions. Choice is yours.

 

[EagleEyes]

Alright, i am not expecting anymore discussion on this issue. I wish that we can all avoid such discussions from right about now. Please keep all the pink-panther type issues where they belong.