IRIAF | News and Discussions

[drmeson]

Your statement on the IRIAF budget is pure bullshit and will remain false in fact. They have more budget than you think and it's very easy to see. It's quite impressive as bullshit, really! Reality overwhelms you, and we'll do that very soon by the way. And there are more planes built, that's very clear

 

[jauk]

This is not a working assembly line, not a single tool or equipment, just a few technicians standing here and there.

IRIAF has no budget to mass produce a plane that will need atleast roughly 15-17 million USD to come into service. The plane is not bad at all but IRIAF lacks $$. With a budget in the range of 200-400 Million USD/Year they can not afford 12 planes a year which may cost them some 180 Million.

Even if they put out a prototype of a 5th-generation fighter, the branch just does not have the bank account to purchase anything. IRGC takes the chunk. IRGC AF alone has a budget of roughly ~1 Billion USD. I posted the breakdown some days ago.

$15M. Huh. How have you applied that to internal Iranian economic structure? Your calculations do not apply in any shape or form. It’s like saying the length of a field is 10000000000.

 

[drmeson]

Yet strangely they seem to have the money to waste on things like the kaman 22,not to mention the costs of reactivating and operating the f1 fleet even tho they make no attempt to make any practical use of it.

I think leadership,or rather the lack of it,has always been the problem at the heart of the iriaf,and I think that problem would still persist no matter how much of a larger budget they were given.

IRGC has absolute power over MODAFL, they see IRIAF as a rival force which if equipped back to IIAF standards will result in IRGC losing its Massive chunk (can be between 3-5 Billion USD) in the budget (Said by Tom C). IRGC is a top-notch or world-class force on its own that can wedge wars on its own with its unparalleld Missile power, Air defense, UCAVs etc no doubt but they always had the $$ and backing of leadership which IRIAF just cant have so the force is dying. These toys and models of "new designs" in exhibitions are nothing unless we see actual production and induction of planes which cant happen because IRIAF has no money.

$15M. Huh. How have you applied that to internal Iranian economic structure? Your calculations do not apply in any shape or form. It’s like saying the length of a field is 10000000000.

Military budget of Iran - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org

SIPRI numbered Mil. budget as 2.2 % of GDP in 2020, which is by UN figures, currently standing at ~600 Bln USD so the budget is 13 Bln USD, In contrast, if we go by WB/IMF figures then its 7-8 Bln. So it's somewhere between 8-13 Bln USD of which 34 % goes to Sepah and 13 % goes to Artesh.

Sepah/Artesh shares by UN = 4.4/1.7 Billion USD
Sepah/Artesh shares by WB/UN = 2.7/1.0 Billion USD

So from this 1.0-1.7 Billion USD for Artesh the figure of 200-400 Million for IRIAF (BT) seems accurate. Forget any author, do this math yourself, IRIAF in last 10 years

- Struggling to pay IAIO for 10-12 Million USD per unit Kowsar which is why only 4 have been delivered so far despite the fact that some 18-24 are on floors of HESA waiting for $$$ to get the assembly line going. A fully operationalized one with ECM, WVR, and BVR, PGMs, Spares will cost around 15-17 Million USD.
- F-14A to F-14AM costs 2-5 Million USD and barely ~15-18 fighters have been converted
- Maghsood LRBVR delivery is pending, Azarakhsh CCD-WVR is pending
- Dowran project took ~10+ years for the conversion of only ~36 F-4E/D in a fleet of 64
- Kaman-22 UCAV is not being procured like UCAV procurement by their branches.
- Mirage F-1 fleet has no weapon, pylon, radars do not work.

Compare this to IRIN's rough list of procurement in last 10-15 years

- 1 x Fateh Submarine
- 14 x Ghadir Submarines
- 3 Kilo Submarine Refits
- 4 x Moudge class frigates + 3 being built
- 4 x Sina Class Missile FACs
- 3 x Sea bases + 2 being built
- 1 x Shahin Minesweeper
- 5 x Mil-171 ASW Helis
- 100s of AShcM

Even a blind man will tell who is getting what share of the budget.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Do not listen to Dr. Meson's remarks on the IRIAF budget because it is ridiculous and full of demagoguery. Wikipedia as the source of Iran's Military Budget is rock bottom assured. He firmly believes that 4 Kowsar have been introduced and he trusts public announcements about this, it's a big mistake
The number of Kowsar is much more than 4, much more.. It's just a more sophisticated troll but it's still demagogy that has nothing to do with reality. You will soon see that I am right because it is not complicated to understand.

And for him, a fighter plane assembly line is a place to stand and dance. 3.4 assembly line have shown for some years but this fake Dr remains number 4 Kowsar, it confuses this forum

4 years ago, a koswar production line was presented with more than 4 planes, and at least 2 other assembly lines were presented publicly. Beware of Dr. Meson's confusion with his figure of 4 planes, it's ridiculous. IRIAF has a very good budget, don't be worried about that

 

[tsunset]

Do not listen to Dr. Meson's remarks on the IRIAF budget because it is ridiculous and full of demagoguery. Wikipedia as the source of Iran's Military Budget is rock bottom assured. He firmly believes that 4 Kowsar have been introduced and he trusts public announcements about this, it's a big mistake
The number of Kowsar is much more than 4, much more.. It's just a more sophisticated troll but it's still demagogy that has nothing to do with reality. You will soon see that I am right because it is not complicated to understand.

And for him, a fighter plane assembly line is a place to stand and dance. 3.4 assembly line have shown for some years but this fake Dr remains number 4 Kowsar, it confuses this forum

4 years ago, a koswar production line was presented with more than 4 planes, and at least 2 other assembly lines were presented publicly. Beware of Dr. Meson's confusion with his figure of 4 planes, it's ridiculous. IRIAF has a very good budget, don't be worried about that

Beside the debate on IRIAF budget, i agree that Wikipedia is an enormous joke when it touches Iran at least, as most sources are not even Iranian officials, but western think tanks such as W Institute and other pseudo experts and even speculations and anonymous sources shown as claims, look at Shahed-136 article to see the whole thing at its maximum level, Sejjil article where there is a random claim that the missile was made by China

We also had a trolling user from US that was adding random price tags on Iranian products without any source, he was putting 100K per Fateh-110, 20million for Shahed-191, 7000 for Shahed-136, 200K for Emad, 10million for Kowsar, i actually had to revert by myself because no one reverted it

Beside very basic information, Wikipedia is a complete joke because of its sourcing policy and only a group of "accredited users" editing crucial articles.

 

[TheImmortal]

$15M. Huh. How have you applied that to internal Iranian economic structure? Your calculations do not apply in any shape or form. It’s like saying the length of a field is 10000000000.

$15M would be impressive given the limited production run. A T-38 cost about ~6M in today’s dollars adjusted for inflation.

A Chinese L-15 cost between $10-15M assuming a healthy 30% margin and lower end production cost means ~7M-10M per aircraft out the door. Would be hard pressed to see how Iran could beat the Chinese in toe to toe manufacturing costs.

Production goes down (per aircraft) as economies of scale is reached. So Iran won’t get benefit of spreading costs over many airframes and the standardized supply chain cost coming down from mass production optimization of supply chain.

I would say ~5-6M would be lowest possible cost. How likely that is, is unknown.

 

[drmeson]

Alright, illiterate troll you have requested a dissection and you shall get one. I am exceptionally good at performing surgeries on trolls, you can check my credentials from other trolls on this forum.

Do not listen to Dr. Meson's remarks on the IRIAF budget because it is ridiculous and full of demagoguery. Wikipedia as the source of Iran's Military Budget is rock bottom assured.

Please provide evidence that the military budget of Iran is not between 7(IMF)-13(UN) Billion USD?

My source:
Here are the SIPRI numbers, SIPRI took WB/IMF numbers for GDP which is the lowest guess, even if we go by UN estimates of a 600 Billion USD GDP, the total budget will not rise above ~13-14 Billion USD at max in 2023.

Mil. Budget in Millions

Mil. Budget as % of GDP

Please provide evidence that SIPRI(Credentials of SIPRI) is wrong?

He firmly believes that 4 Kowsar have been introduced and he trusts public announcements about this, it's a big mistake

The number of Kowsar is much more than 4, much more.. It's just a more sophisticated troll but it's still demagogy that has nothing to do with reality. You will soon see that I am right because it is not complicated to understand.

Please provide serials and pics of Kowsars other than 4 confirmed ones???

Kowsar Serials known through pictorial evidence

3-7400 (original prototype, known to be 100% locally built)

3-7400, 3-7164. 3-7180 pictured together

3-7304 or 3-7330 from few months back (Source)

Please go on and bless us with secrets from your "inside sources" in HESA how many 100s of Kowsars have been inducted.

$15M

"To produce a brand-new Kowsar, IAMI will receive $9m. For equipping each one with the new avionics package and weapons systems, the company will receive $7.5m from IRIAF. Project Kowsar involves 4,000 engineers and technicians – 1,400 are directly from IAMI."

Source

 

[drmeson]

in new missiles, bombs, on-board drone, new cell design,

Please provide evidence of new missiles, bombs, on-board drone on Kowsar?

(Hint: nothing except for Fattar WVR or SDB PGM has ever been seen)

artificial intelligence,

Please provide evidence that some type of AI is being used in Kowsar onboard 4 computers. Weapons Management Computer (WMC), Avionics Mission Computer (AMC), Air Data Computer (ADC), Ballistic Targeting Computer

anti-radiation paint

Please provide evidence that RAM is being applied on airframes of Kowsar. Not even a hint exists that RAM is being used on Kowsar

 

[jauk]

Alright, illiterate troll you have requested a dissection and you shall get one. I am exceptionally good at performing surgeries on trolls, you can check my credentials from other trolls on this forum.

Please provide evidence that the military budget of Iran is not between 7(IMF)-13(UN) Billion USD?

My source:
Here are the SIPRI numbers, SIPRI took WB/IMF numbers for GDP which is the lowest guess, even if we go by UN estimates of a 600 Billion USD GDP, the total budget will not rise above ~13-14 Billion USD at max in 2023.

Mil. Budget in Millions

View attachment 949046

Mil. Budget as % of GDP

View attachment 949048


Please provide evidence that SIPRI(Credentials of SIPRI) is wrong?





Please provide serials and pics of Kowsars other than 4 confirmed ones???

Kowsar Serials known through pictorial evidence

3-7400 (original prototype, known to be 100% locally built)
View attachment 949055

3-7400, 3-7164. 3-7180 pictured together

View attachment 949057

3-7304 or 3-7330 from few months back (Source)

View attachment 949060

Please go on and bless us with secrets from your "inside sources" in HESA how many 100s of Kowsars have been inducted.



"To produce a brand-new Kowsar, IAMI will receive $9m. For equipping each one with the new avionics package and weapons systems, the company will receive $7.5m from IRIAF. Project Kowsar involves 4,000 engineers and technicians – 1,400 are directly from IAMI."

Source

Your ‘source’ is false. It entirely misses the point as you seem to be as well. Again, you’re committing grave ‘impedance mismatch’ by applying a unit of measure to something that cannot be measured by that unit. ‘Dollars’.

 

[aryobarzan]

Few months ago I had a discussion with a Turkish member about the number of Kowsars formally introduced into the IRIAF and made an extensive search..THERE ARE ONLY 4 ..so I would also love to know by EVIDENCE if there are more. So wish full thinking by Mr "Iran eye " is great but evidence is lacking!

 

[Sineva]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695036353451299178

 

[drmeson]

Few months ago I had a discussion with a Turkish member about the number of Kowsars formally introduced into the IRIAF and made an extensive search..THERE ARE ONLY 4 ..so I would also love to know by EVIDENCE if there are more.

4 operational/under-evaluation as confirmed by serials

~18 on HESA floors as confirmed on Raisi, and Ashtiani's visits to the facility.

So wish full thinking by Mr "Iran eye " is great but evidence is lacking!

What would you expect from trolls on this forum .... from utter intellectual failure to understand the difference between theoretical and experimental sciences to claiming AI-controlled RAM coated Kowsars .... this forum is seeing its demise like IDF/IMF at the hands of clowns.

Iran has lots and lots of things to be proud of like its regionally unparalleled aerospace, missile program to UCAVs, Air defence, E-Warfare etc. I never understand why some people have to spread fake news and claim BS to tarnish Iranian image. This is an exact reflection of how some of the HESA and IRIAF idiots used to behave, claiming baseless things which resulted into ruining the credibility of actual achievement.

Your ‘source’ is false. It entirely misses the point as you seem to be as well. Again, you’re committing grave ‘impedance mismatch’ by applying a unit of measure to something that cannot be measured by that unit. ‘Dollars’.

ahhh, so SIPRI is wrong and so is UN/IMF/World bank? Apparently, you know more than all of them combined so you can tell us.

 

[mack8]

Hi DrMeson,

I believe it was you who posted some time back the name of the AIM-7 derived iranian BVR missile, but can't find it at the moment for the life of me! What was it called again? Thanks.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

The troll Dr Meson tries to confuse everyone but luckily there are sane people here who don't get into his delusions

He says here: Please provide serials and pics of Kowsars other than 4 confirmed ones???

If Iran did not expose the other kowsar, it means that there are just 4, school child logic. So according to its faulty logic, Iran produces 1 kowsar per year but presents us with at least 3 public assembly lines with certainly 9 planes at each assembly line. But for Dr. Mason, the technicians only stand up next to the planes. To believe that Iran produces 1 kowsar per year is pure bullshit from a demagogue

He Says here : Please provide proof of new missiles, bombs and drones on board Kowsar?

My God : It has been said a few times by the Iranian authorities and exposing on this forum is no secret! The guy is completely lost in outer space. And it is very logical because it also includes new radar. Last week it was said that they are producing a new special radar for the kowsar, some people on this forum have seen the news

He says here : Please provide proof that some type of AI is used in Kowsar onboard 4 computers

He is completely lost, he does not really follow the news of the Iranian army and yet, it was a little discussed here in this section. Iranian sources who have already been posted here to say that Kowsar had elements of artificial intelligence to be linked to drones in flight. Those with a good memory here read the statement. I'm not inventing anything, it's a fact declared and said on this forum

He says here : Please provide evidence that RAM is being applied on airframes of Kowsar

Again, I posted 2 links here that people have seen for the anti-radiation paint that Iran produces now. And yet another Iranian statement said the kowsar now has a weak radar signature. So the link is easy to make now between this statement and the fact that Iran produces this kind of painting

For the budget, you have to completely disconnect from reality to say that IRIAF is underfunded with money, that doesn't hold water. In reality, they have a good budget and in addition, many engines are produced now, an exhibition has been demonstrated here

My analysis and my intuition tell me that one day soon, Iran will expose a fleet of aircraft with new Kowsar and other new aircraft as they do with missiles, drones in underground shelters. For a few years, Iran seems to like to present us with the new acquisitions in quantity and I think it will be the same thing soon with the combat planes

Iran attains technology of anti-radar paints, absorbing camouflages

www.tehrantimes.com

Iranian industries utilizing homegrown nanopaints

TEHRAN – An Iranian knowledge-based manufacturing and industrial company has made nanopaints which are being used in different sectors, including the aviation, automotive, home appliances, and steel industries.

www.tehrantimes.com

I had also forgotten the helmets that digital develop by Iran for combat aircraft

 

[Piet]

This plane intrigues me because it seems shorter in length than the kowsar and when you look at its rear design, it seems to carry a single engine. View attachment 9476462 air outlet, intriguing

The images below are screengrabs & some panel-beating of the Gen. Khajefared - CEO of Iran Aviation Industries Organization - interview.

What is obvious from the center a/c is that its LERX and the rest of the wings looks to be similar to F-5/Kowsar. What does seem different to me is the slightly 'square-rified' intakes, and at a slight inclination.

Second from right is a section showing what appears to be an engine nozzle. Just to the rear, inside of the fuselage, looks something like this ɷ. Why does this look like provision for the fitting of two smaller engines. Certainly hope not.

Moving to the a/c to the right, clearly no cranked delta in evidence.

On the left of this image is a partial wing of a parallel Kowsar 2-seat assembly line.

What stands out the most here is the near horizontal dorsal 'extension'? that appears to hold from the rear of the c/pit that joins up at the rear with the exterior 'ducts'. This can safely be interpreted as providing space for a larger single engine.

If this is indeed the future go-to combat a/c of the IRIAF, then this TV interview, and images, will influence the regional aerial status quo for a long time to come.

Enjoy

P