IRIAF | News and Discussions

[drmeson]

No those higher rank don’t care about IRIAF that’s the real answer.

IRGC has an extreme level of influence over Vezarate Defa. IRIAF has a bare minimum budget. The fleet size, quality, and quantity wise are shrinking with time to the point that pilots now do ~100 hours a year. Most of the topnotch engineers, and technicians left the country so the force is:

- bankrupt
- In the hands of low-quality people who lack vision. Hamid Vahidi himself is an example.

Kowsar took 23 years and production rate is still very small (test bed size)

Kowsar-I will die down at 1-2 squadrons for a very simple reason. HESA wants money and IRIAF has none. A unit costs ~10 million USD and that is just a BVR less Kowsar-I using repository parts of F-5E/F fleet. The armament cost is additional. So for 10 million USD, IRIAF gets a fairly modern but underpowered plane with no BVR at its disposal so it will always be a light CAP at best. IRIAF can afford 60-70 of these but that means the budget for ~50 F-5E/F, 12 MF-1, and 44 x F-7N will have to be cut which is just not possible. The lobby behind F-7N was planning to produce their own rebuilt "Saeghe" of F-7N. Its Sy-80 PD Radar has a range of 30 KM.

btw hypothetically the next generation of Saeghe/Kowsar with a locally produced Turbofan + redesigned airframe + new SAIRAN avionics suite + BVR will be something up to 22-25 Million USD a unit. IRIAF is struggling to pay OWJ for 2-4 million a piece F-14AM upgradations.

Shafaq got canned

... was a University Project of foreign origin. Its foreign designer died, and the professors, and students who worked on it retired/moved on.

Qaher got canned

.. was a pure propoganda stunt by Ahamdinejad Govt.

and Yasin has been in development for years.

... ego project of a lobby that has the highest level of influence over the funding. The plane offers nothing in IRIAF's hands being a AT or a CAS at best. IRIAF needs low RCS, fast climbing interceptors with top-notch Avionics, T-datalink, Nav-Comm, LR-BVR missiles. AT's and CAS are a waste of money.

How can you say that means Upper Leadership prefers domestic?

True answer would be Upper Leadership doesn’t value a strong Air Force.

Have to wait till some of these Iraq war era generals and leaders retire for the fresh young minds to reach leadership positions.

They are caught up in the mentality of controlling skies from the ground through IADS while ever-evolving missiles and drones take the responsibility of attack. This scheme is not necessarily very bad if a token force of some 100-120 x 4+ generation interceptors (SU-35S or MIG-29M/MIG-35) are helping IADS. Akhoond gang is just illiterate and learned nothing from Syria, or Ukraine.

 

[drmeson]

Right now Saf-e-Aval program on TV had an interview with this Guy

it really made my day
the only jets he promised for this year was Kowsar and Yasin

which means they are gonna induct those ~18 airframes we keep seeing in HESA floors and call it mass production of Kowsar.

Not very bad but by no means this is gonna help IRIAF.

he also promised long range air to air missile (probably the one that was based on AIM-7)

ARH seekers with ECM are a must for this local AIM-7E2. Anything that can target an intruder at > or = 80 KM is good for IRIAF.

and he promised all the radar on Iranian jets will be replaced with domestic ones.

BT turned out to be true in this regard for he was the first person to give these radars names ... Bayyenat-I (F-4 Dowran), Bayyenat-II (Kowsar) and that Kowsar-I's avionics will be given to Yasin CAS version, F-14 AM and Kowsar-I/II.

he also promised Low RCS drones for air force .

Shahed 171/191 have RCS of ~0.1 m2. Is there a new version?

another interesting part of the interview happened to be the time when the clueless reporter wanted to pressure him on su-35 and get a promise on it. the answer was the part that made my day
" we in air-force are consumer , we don't buy the airplane or decide when it will be bought its up to higher rank member of the Islamic Republic"
and guess whart those higher rank members already stated they prefer domestic products

Su-35S will be moved to 2024. Russia can not produce additional numbers and the political bargaining chip is too big to lose in front of western countries.

 

[TheImmortal]

IRGC has an extreme level of influence over Vezarate Defa. IRIAF has a bare minimum budget. The fleet size, quality, and quantity wise are shrinking with time to the point that pilots now do ~100 hours a year. Most of the topnotch engineers, and technicians left the country so the force is:

- bankrupt
- In the hands of low-quality people who lack vision. Hamid Vahidi himself is an example.



Kowsar-I will die down at 1-2 squadrons for a very simple reason. HESA wants money and IRIAF has none. A unit costs ~10 million USD and that is just a BVR less Kowsar-I using repository parts of F-5E/F fleet. The armament cost is additional. So for 10 million USD, IRIAF gets a fairly modern but underpowered plane with no BVR at its disposal so it will always be a light CAP at best. IRIAF can afford 60-70 of these but that means the budget for ~50 F-5E/F, 12 MF-1, and 44 x F-7N will have to be cut which is just not possible. The lobby behind F-7N was planning to produce their own rebuilt "Saeghe" of F-7N. Its Sy-80 PD Radar has a range of 30 KM.

btw hypothetically the next generation of Saeghe/Kowsar with a locally produced Turbofan + redesigned airframe + new SAIRAN avionics suite + BVR will be something up to 22-25 Million USD a unit. IRIAF is struggling to pay OWJ for 2-4 million a piece F-14AM upgradations.



... was a University Project of foreign origin. Its foreign designer died, and the professors, and students who worked on it retired/moved on.



.. was a pure propoganda stunt by Ahamdinejad Govt.



... ego project of a lobby that has the highest level of influence over the funding. The plane offers nothing in IRIAF's hands being a AT or a CAS at best. IRIAF needs low RCS, fast climbing interceptors with top-notch Avionics, T-datalink, Nav-Comm, LR-BVR missiles. AT's and CAS are a waste of money.





They are caught up in the mentality of controlling skies from the ground through IADS while ever-evolving missiles and drones take the responsibility of attack. This scheme is not necessarily very bad if a token force of some 100-120 x 4+ generation interceptors (SU-35S or MIG-29M/MIG-35) are helping IADS. Akhoond gang is just illiterate and learned nothing from Syria, or Ukraine.

I 100% agree with your rebuttal.

The issue is Iran’s military is becoming a one trick pony (missiles + drones) and the influence of IRGC and its massive share of the defense budget is to blame.

and you believe younger generation prefer Su-35 over domestic production.
the only open path in front of our air force is domestic production and relying on ourself

Real domestic production is an engine in AL-31 class. Not playing around F-5 and Owj engine for next 20 years.

I 100% support a domestic production path alongside some foreign acquisitions.

I do not and will never support the Kowsar project. It is not the long term solution to IRIAF and it will not help convince upper leadership to commit more funds to any project inside the Air Force.

 

[tsunset]

1- Freeze immediately the Kowsar unfinishable money leeching project and make it in standby
2- Scrap the WW2 F-7N and Mirages in public so they pardon the people
3- Buy heavy lift helicopters
4- Push for the Su-35 and ToT

And at this point, start a new project with new engines, maybe a new airframe than F-5, and keep going for the radars and electronics

Iran is completely nude with no manned air force. This is not a project that has not been done since 20 years and still not at least 5 jets made that is going to change Iran airforce in the short term

People seems to always forget the short term and always think on the long term

Iran is threatened of war by Israel at a weekly basis, this is not the time to make a new prototype airplane or trying hard on Kowsar that will never enter mass production until Iran is relieved from big threats and acquire hardware

Iran should acquire, buy, produce what it can do right now, in the short term and spend on this, not on some prototype or PR stunts/unfinishable Kowsar and making speculations, this is not the right time at all for this, this isn't like Iran is the USA unveiling their prototypes of advanced technology or China unveiling their new stealth bomber.

Su-35 to relieve the air force, something to replace CH, little addition to the attack helicopter fleet (KA-52/Mi-28
/Z-10)

And mix, shuffle the air defense layer, for example LORAD Bavar-373 mixed with S-300/400/500, Medium range, SHORAD with Pantsir that proven very effective against Turkish and other western drones, so far all drones that entered the Iranian airspace were shut down beside that commercial smuggled Dji inside the city

And not wasting time while Iran is being threatened of war on all fronts by working on a prototype or something that will come out in 150 years

Step by step, deterrence and security of the country, ability to retaliate using crushing airstrikes, then work on the domestic project hopefully with foreign engines plans and transfers.

 

[mohsen]

Text version of the interview with Gen. Vahedi chief commander of IRIAF:
امیر واحدی: تعدادی جنگنده کوثر در آینده نزدیک به نیروی هوایی ارتش ملحق می‌شوند | خبرگزاری فارس

summary: Projects had good results, but we still don't have them. the rest, we don't know!



But still he isn't as delusional as some Ukraine airforce commanders, or their clones among this forum's members!


Full episode in 9 parts:
11 خرداد 1402 - صف اول | شبکه خبر - ۱۱ خرداد ماه ۱۴۰۲

 

[Hack-Hook]

which means they are gonna induct those ~18 airframes we keep seeing in HESA floors and call it mass production of Kowsar.

Not very bad but by no means this is gonna help IRIAF.

at the start the talked about 30 of them . maybe after the floor get emptied we see another batch and after that by the speed they work probably we have a better engine by then and another version of kowsar.
when he talked about kowsar , he said its body use another alloy from the original f-5 wonder what they used

BT turned out to be true in this regard for he was the first person to give these radars names ... Bayyenat-I (F-4 Dowran), Bayyenat-II (Kowsar) and that Kowsar-I's avionics will be given to Yasin CAS version, F-14 AM and Kowsar-I/II.

hope they do that sooner , actually i still hope they also do the same with mig-29 . right now the radar in them no matter what capability it has have a serious problem . it detect a bomber size aircraft in front of it at the distance of less than 50-60km

Shahed 171/191 have RCS of ~0.1 m2. Is there a new version?

really don't know if they meant that or something , but always wondered about the drone that crashed in Isfehan several years ago

 

[drmeson]

I 100% agree with your rebuttal.

The issue is Iran’s military is becoming a one trick pony (missiles + drones) and the influence of IRGC and its massive share of the defense budget is to blame.

This strategy is not bad either. Iran can knock the teeth out of any opposition in the region be it land or in seas with BM/CM/GV Missiles and UCAVs while ever-expanding IADS can guard the skies but it will be extremely stretched in case of full-blown war.

IRIAF should be merged with IRGC-AF and maintain a robust force of 120 low RCS interceptors with AESA, TDL, HMD, LR-BVR, All Aspect WVR. They could have just purchased an additional MIG-29M from Russia. There are tons of MIG-29 in storage in Russia. They can certainly spare 60-70 airframes and bring them to SMT standards + IRIAF ones to create a menacing interceptor fleet.

 

[Hack-Hook]

IRIAF should be merged with IRGC-AF and maintain a robust force of 120 low RCS interceptors with AESA, TDL, HMD, LR-BVR, All Aspect WVR. They could have just purchased an additional MIG-29M from Russia. There are tons of MIG-29 in storage in Russia. They can certainly spare 60-70 airframes and bring them to SMT standards + IRIAF ones to create a menacing interceptor fleet.

waste of money and killing the chance to build our own fighter .
by the way if you want to do that why not go after mig-35 instead ?

 

[drmeson]

at the start the talked about 30 of them . maybe after the floor get emptied we see another batch and after that by the speed they work probably we have a better engine by then and another version of kowsar.
when he talked about kowsar , he said its body use another alloy from the original f-5 wonder what they used

I feel even if they unveil a much talked about domestic turbofan, fitting it into a Kowsar frame means the entire weight distribution of the craft, tail section will have to be remodeled. This means years of work. Then after that what do we get ? still a 4th generation fighter.

I assume the best way to go is to focus on modernization and full armamamentation of Kowsar-I with locally procured BVR (Ideal will be R-77AE+R-73M combo), with local SAIRAN AESA+HMD. It already has the rest of the ingredients. This craft with its e-warfare, TDL, FBW is ok for CAPs and interceptions within Iranian IADS spheres. The Turbofan version needs to have redesigned airframes with <1m2 RCS. It will take years.

hope they do that sooner , actually i still hope they also do the same with mig-29 . right now the radar in them no matter what capability it has have a serious problem . it detect a bomber size aircraft in front of it at the distance of less than 50-60km

RPLK-29E FCR system of MIG 9.12 can track a F-16-like target at 55KM. The Luftwaffe simulated dogfights of their 9.12 with their NATO counterparts always had the same result that plane sucked at BVR but came out victorious at WVR with its HMS Slaved R-73 OBS weapon.

If entire Kowsar-1 + F-4 E/D Dowran combination of avionics+combat suite is loaded on MIG-29 then the problem of integrating its R-27R1 and R-73 to SAIRAN radars will rise up.

really don't know if they meant that or something , but always wondered about the drone that crashed in Isfehan several years ago

Loyal Wingmen is a must for IRIAF. Karrar should be enlarged with Jahesh-700/Tolue-14 Turbofans with Tactical DL, IRST slaved high OBS WVR on lines of Tu-300 Korshun. They are the future.

waste of money and killing the chance to build our own fighter .

You do realise I am all for Kowsar-II/Saeghe-III program because I know the current Kowsar-I is just a fair level tech stop gap. I am interested in next genertion.

by the way if you want to do that why not go after mig-35 instead ?

Cash !

Many MIG-29 are in storage, that can be upgraded to SMT standards for much less $$ then MIG-35 which will need new production from scratch.

 

[Blue In Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1664533248574124034

Hmmm….

 

[Hack-Hook]

RPLK-29E FCR system of MIG 9.12 can track a F-16-like target at 55KM. The Luftwaffe simulated dogfights of their 9.12 with their NATO counterparts always had the same result that plane sucked at BVR but came out victorious at WVR with its HMS Slaved R-73 OBS

That 50km is when they scan only a narrow field in front of it . If they do a wide search as they usually must do . The range is reduced dramatically.
Also those data belong to warsaw pact mig 29 9.12a not our downgraded mig-2909.12b
And instead of r73 they can use fater . And also I don't think it will be problem integrating the infrared missile into any system.
About r27 unless we upgrade those mig-29 to smt standard really there is not much benefit in that missile

Loyal Wingmen is a must for IRIAF. Karrar should be enlarged with Jahesh-700/Tolue-14 Turbofans with Tactical DL, IRST slaved high OBS WVR on lines of Tu-300 Korshun. They are the future.

He was talking about low rcs drones doubt karrar can be modified in such manner and still be karrar

Cash !

Many MIG-29 are in storage, that can be upgraded to SMT standards for much less $$ then MIG-35 which will need new production from scratch.

Here the statistic mentioned was paying 1000000 dollar to upgrade 19 mig. 29 to smt standard.
I say it's not better if we leave those mig 29 as they are now and use that money to buy 12 mig-35 with spares and meanwhile get our hand. On their radar technology

 

[TheImmortal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1664533248574124034

Hmmm….

Basically confirmed that pilots haven’t gotten any training.

So all those reports that they are in Russia and training on SU-35 seems false.

 

[Blue In Green]

Basically confirmed that pilots haven’t gotten any training.

So all those reports that they are in Russia and training on SU-35 seems false.

Well…. This fucking sucks…

 

[aryobarzan]

Basically confirmed that pilots haven’t gotten any training.

So all those reports that they are in Russia and training on SU-35 seems false.

Well with SU 35 out of the equation then the remaining questions is:

1- Do "Highest officials" believe Iran military strategy does not require strong airforce..end of story ..or

2- "Highest officials" do believe that Iran needs strong airforce and the way forward is "domestic developments".


My bet is on #2 and I will happily live with that decision and look forward to Iran's new developments.

 

[ReasonableStar75]

Well…. This fucking sucks…

Absolutely, i think Iran is not going to have its paid S-35...it s a disgrace.

Move on, Iran must not waste time in vague hopes, do the hard way, that s it. Iran has time, do it thoroughly.