IRIAF | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

1) As long as we have an engine that fits, we'll make it fly. End of story. Russian engine is the absolute worst case scenario, in all likelyhood, Turkish engine will be ready before we get there. Like I said, there's 7-8 years at least.

That’s conjecture, but like I said let see. Long way from Taxi till mass production.

Iran has Russia offering them their highest tech weapons. This is what you can do

Russia has never offered Iran their highest tech weapons. History has shown Russia backstabbing Iran in many arms deals, including the S-300 where Iran sued them in world court and secured a 3B dollar judgement if they didn’t deliver the system.

In fact they haven’t even confirmed sale of SU-35S. That was Iranian side talking. As for SU-30 license production in Iran, is according to Turkish sources.

What foreign radar? lol. We have the latest tech GaN based AESA radar at home

Yes and your helicopter and tank are all homegrown tech as well. Come on man.

I’m curious why Turkey is even trying to build up its military when it’s part of NATO? Who is planning to invade Turkey or who is Turkey planning to invade? If anything NATO goes to war with Russia then Turkey will be fighting Russians. Unless this whole military build up is to fight Greece.

This is the last time I'm talking about this, you absolute retard. If they can detect an F16, they can detect a SU-27 and they can detect a Tupolev. It doesn't matter if your RCS is 1 m'2 or 15 square kilometers. If you want stealth, Su-35 or Tupolev bombers are equally wrong options.

You are the one that brought up SU-35 RCS. I was saying Tupolev is obsolete as a bomber due to its RCS. Tupolev is an offensive weapon made to attack foreign targets.

SU-35S is for defensive purposes for Iran. It’s to protect its air defense systems from saturation attacks via Israeli or US airforce. SU-35 can track F-35 using its IRST (same thing TFX is trying to add to its jet).

Now F-35 vs SU-35S on NEUTRAL soil is obviously going to F-35 in the dogfight.

However, F-35 vs SU-35S over Iranian soil with Iranian Bavar, S-300, Khordad, and tens of other systems illuminating the air space than the nod goes to SU-35 to be able to keep the F-35 honest since F-35 will have to fend of SU-35 plus a host of radars and air defense systems trying to shoot it down. A monumental task.

Iran’s Air Force is a defensive Air Force, it isn’t planning to purchase SU-35S to attack Israeli airforce or US bases. Meanwhile a TU bomber is MADE to bomb foreign bases. That is the difference. That was my point.

I’m done arguing in circles with you. You forget your own points you try to make and move the goalposts.

I also don’t care about TFX, I merely said it is too reliant on foreign power plants and sub systems. Which is true. Your counter was if US doesn’t supply GE engines you will ask Russia too. Again still foreign dependency.

 

[LegionnairE]

Yes and your helicopter and tank are all homegrown tech as well. Come on man.

EIRS is a foreign radar made in glorious US of A I guess.

Russia has never offered Iran their highest tech weapons.

Su-35 is their highest tech weapon.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Su-35 is their highest tech weapon.

its not and it never offered to iran

 

[Muhammed45]

We thought same about Chinese regarding their J10 project in 1980s(so did not join their J10 project and now ended up with JF 17)

And same about Turks in 2010s regarding TFX.
Now we are trying hard to get into TFX project but unfortunately much of work has already been done and even if we join now,very little is there to gain.

However,our navy folks are much better in this regard.Milgem project happened to be a great blessing for our shipbuilding skills.

You are comparing our countries to China? That's beyond a joke. We cannot match their production capacity/capability.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

You are comparing our countries to China? That's beyond a joke. We cannot match their production capacity/capability.

You could not understand my post.I am not comparing China with any country.
In 1980s Chinese were open to jointly develop J10 fighter jet with us.
But Chinese were very immature in this field at that time so risk of failure was there.Seeing that risk of failure,Our PAF folks did not join J10 project.
But time has proved that our PAF folks made huge judgemental mistake.
And Chinese hard work brought them the success in J10 project.

In 2010s ,Turks were very open towards us to join their TFX project right from beginning but again seeing the risk of failure,PAF waited and waited,and now Turkey has developed most of critical technologies and even if we join them now,there is little to learn.

They are still open to us for joining as they need manpower but we are wasting time sitting idly.

Turkey is a new destination for our Engineers as we produce huge chunk of engineering graduates but due to non existent local industry,most of them end up in Europe and China

 

[Muhammed45]

In 1980s Chinese were open to jointly develop J10 fighter jet with us.

Source? What technological capacity did Pakistan have back in 80s to offer the Chinese?

In 2010s ,Turks were very open towards us to join their TFX project right from beginning but again seeing the risk of failure,PAF waited and waited,and now Turkey has developed most of critical technologies and even if we join them now,there is little to learn.

Turkey has access to international market. They don't have the required technology to independently develop a homemade fighter jet. From avionics to body frame, they use foreign made components like Swedish Gripen.

Chinese achievements is a different story.

Turkey is a new destination for our Engineers as we produce huge chunk of engineering graduates but due to non existent local industry,most of them end up in Europe and China

Your source is China and it will remain so for a foreseeable future. Turkey won't offer you any technological ground, you better continue to cooperate with China. Turks themselves import foreign tech including engine for domestic plans. Remember what happened to you in helicopter program, you are a mere source of investment for Turkey nothing more nothing less.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Source? What technological capacity did Pakistan have back in 80s to offer the Chinese?

It's called economics of scale to share the risk and mass production of jet to justify the costs.J10 was ignored due to failure risk and some other factors.

Pakistan had nothing to share technologically in JF17 as well but still Chinese developed this jet with us.

Turkey has access to international market. They don't have the required technology to independently develop a homemade fighter jet. From avionics to body frame, they use foreign made components like Swedish Gripen.

Even at some point,Chinese did not possess required technologies to develop J10 but with their hardwork and determination,they developed it.Faced so much difficulties that they even developed some backup plans in case J10 fails.
Pakistanis who have interacted with Turks say they are very hardworking and determined people to get the job done and in bonus they have western markete to get benefit from.
I believe Turkey will never face Iran level sanctions as they are very diplomatic/business type people to deal with the world.

For TFX,we can wait for 15-20 years as India is in no mood to buy 5th gen FA and will go on the root to develop its AMCA which will take long time span

So we have time but people in charge here are not that genius to timely join TFX.i believe they will join,but at that time it will just be a direct purchase with little ToT if at all.

Your source is China and it will remain so for a foreseeable future. Turkey won't offer you any technological ground, you better continue to cooperate with China. Turks themselves import foreign tech including engine for domestic plans. Remember what happened to you in helicopter program, you are a mere source of investment for Turkey nothing more nothing less.

Nope that's not correct.Turks are ready for joint ventures because they need partners to share the risk and justify the costs of development.
For Example in Jinnah Class Frigate project,
PN owns the Design/IP rights.I expect you know the benefits of gaining IP rights of any weapon system.

 

[LegionnairE]

Nope that's not correct.Turks are ready for joint ventures because they need partners to share the risk and justify the costs of development.
For Example in Jinnah Class Frigate project,
PN owns the Design/IP rights.I expect you know the benefits of gaining IP rights of any weapon system.

Turkey needs economy of scale, even despite the political concerns, if Iran wanted to buy 200+ TFX fighters and was willing to pay the price, it would be very difficult to say no.

Unfortunately neither Iran nor Pakistan has any fucking money. So it will be a difficult road up ahead. But considering the fact that our only rival is F35, I am confident that we'll find some buyers.

 

[aryobarzan]

Turkey needs economy of scale, even despite the political concerns, if Iran wanted to buy 200+ TFX fighters and was willing to pay the price, it would be very difficult to say no.

Unfortunately neither Iran nor Pakistan has any fucking money. So it will be a difficult road up ahead. But considering the fact that our only rival is F35, I am confident that we'll find some buyers.

You already spent $ 1 billion to get KAAN (what a name man!) to Taxi on American engines with no working domestic subsystems (radar IRST etc)...The rule of Thumb is that you need another $ 8 to 9 billion dollars just the get it to production floor with foreign engine (2030 time frame) and you do not have any money either!.

Some hard questions:
1- If all goes well why would Americans give you an engine so that you come into their market (same issue to British and Russians and Chinese engines unless you produce your own which is doubt full considering extra huge $$$ needed and Tech that you do not have)

2- Why would anyone buy your Plane in 10 years time while 6th Gen aircraft will come to the market and 5th Gen will be offered at lower prices as US has now built 1000 of them so cost/unit is coming down by then.

3- First rate Aviation countries US ,RUSSIA, CHINA and UK already have their own 5th Gen with domestic engines. Why would anyone buy Turkish and South Korean Planes with foreign engines and foreign subsystems and therefore License restrictions of third parties
4- What is the grand strategy for this plane..Makes no sense for third rate Aviation countries like Turkey or south korea (second rates are France,Sweden,India, Israel, etc) to develop such a plane at such a cost. African or south americans cannot afford such a plane ..Is Turkey ( may be Azarbaijan if still around !) the only ones using it..does the country need such a plane because tinny Greece has F35 some day.

 

[tsunset]

Please stop going into clash of foreign products, this is a thread about IRIAF and things related to Iran air industries, this gets annoying to scroll through tens of posts of arguing about the TURKISH ECONOMY AND AIR FORCE to find something related to IRIAF advancements or photos

TFX is not related to Iran
TFX is not an Iranian product nor has ties with it
TFX is not planned for purchase by Iran
Nothing has been rumored tied with TF-X and Iran

This is just polluting into infinite debates that doesn't have a single thing related to Iran, as Turkey and Iran are not military partners neither allies, Iran is sanctioned, Turkey is a NATO member and importing/exporting freely without being threatened of massive sanctions

TFX arguing/development, advancement, rumors, export/import = Turkey section

Whatever related to Iran air-force in terms of advances and rumored foreign jet purchase, export and import= This section

 

[aryobarzan]

Please stop going into clash of foreign products, this is a thread about IRIAF and things related to Iran air industries, this gets annoying to scroll through tens of posts of arguing about the TURKISH ECONOMY AND AIR FORCE to find something related to IRIAF advancements or photos

TFX is not related to Iran
TFX is not an Iranian product nor has ties with it
TFX is not planned for purchase by Iran
Nothing has been rumored tied with TF-X and Iran

This is just polluting into infinite debates that doesn't have a single thing related to Iran, as Turkey and Iran are not military partners neither allies, Iran is sanctioned, Turkey is a NATO member and importing/exporting freely without being threatened of massive sanctions

TFX arguing/development, advancement, rumors, export/import = Turkey section

Whatever related to Iran air-force in terms of advances and rumored foreign jet purchase, export and import= This section

What goes around Iran is a concern for Iranians....so if that does not agree with French borne East Asian you can ship out my dear.

 

[jauk]

Turkey needs economy of scale, even despite the political concerns, if Iran wanted to buy 200+ TFX fighters and was willing to pay the price, it would be very difficult to say no.

Unfortunately neither Iran nor Pakistan has any fucking money. So it will be a difficult road up ahead. But considering the fact that our only rival is F35, I am confident that we'll find some buyers.

Iran doesn’t need money the way you need it. Iran builds things it needs all with Iranian tech. Turkey, by definition, can’t and is sentenced to flutter in the winds of western whims. Yes, exactly like the F35.

Turkey is trying to break out its box but largely has been unable to. Perhaps Turkey can take a page from Saudi Arabia. You need cajones and will. After that you need to execute.

At the end, Turkey is in a terrible spot. It’s stuck in a geopolitical no man’s land resulting in paralysis. Saudi Arabia was not hobbled by that as it was firmly in the western camp as a milking cow at least.

Basically Turkey’s dogma is being run over by bad karma.

 

[Joe_Adam]

so butthurt is much beyond our expectations .

Look at at the failed Turkish nations; Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan all listed at the very bottom of world's human development index. Those nations have nasty dictatorship regimes governed by mafia like systems. They are backward, corrupt, agrarian societies void of any creative industrial base. Turkey is ruled by an illiterates dictator who barely knows his own language, and yet, you clowns talk about making 5th generation fighter Jets . . . ? First; go build yourself a basic air defense system, a infantry fighting vehicle, an automotive industry all of which are simpler to master than 5th generation jet that Turkey doesn't have the knowhow to make and would not be able to master at least for the next 50 years, if ever.

Grand talk is worthless, it's a bad habit for idle folks like you who lack any productive useful work, no formal education, but a big mouth uttering nonsense collected from Google search which gives you a 70-90 words worth of yapping enough for 15 minutes burst of fake knowledge, and then you run out of that temporary knowledge because you are an empty suit with shallow mind which is the case with every typical Turk.

Turkey is a failed state desperately trying to imitate others but dreaming is different from reality. Accomplishing things come from sound education establishments, millions of engineers and technicians, scientific foundations, great engineering schools, a vast cadre of specialist in so many fields of technology all of which is missing in Turkey, so how you plan to manufacture 5th generation Jet Fighters? Knowing your limits is the first sign of wisdom and sanity, so you must first learn how to walk before you start running, so stop being a fool and admit your limits.

If you discuss Kebab, Donner, and Baklava, well, I give you some credit but industrial prowess are not Turkish traits and never will be. The reason is your genetics markers, and no amount of idle talk could change that axiom. Your brains are not wired for engineering, period. You already know that but you keep shouting and crying and cursing others due to your own shortcomings, which is ironic as you Turks infest this site 24/7 since you guys don't work and have nothing to do but hate, contempt, and hurling bad words against anyone who tells the truth, and that's very bad and childish. Frankly, the best term to describe your conduct would be GOSSIP and you guys are good at that.

 

[Joe_Adam]

We thought same about Chinese regarding their J10 project in 1980s(so did not join their J10 project and now ended up with JF 17)

And same about Turks in 2010s regarding TFX.
Now we are trying hard to get into TFX project but unfortunately much of work has already been done and even if we join now,very little is there to gain.

However,our navy folks are much better in this regard.Milgem project happened to be a great blessing for our shipbuilding skills.

Comparing Chinese to the Turks is wrong my friend. The Chinese are one of the most creative minds on earth as their civilization testifies to that. Turkey is an artificial country created after WWI with no industrial background and has yet to field a single simple military platform created indigenously. Comparing Turkey to China is like comparing an Elephant to cockroach two very different creatures one is a huge mamale and the second is a bug.

 

[HGV]

Please stop going into clash of foreign products, this is a thread about IRIAF and things related to Iran air industries, this gets annoying to scroll through tens of posts of arguing about the TURKISH ECONOMY AND AIR FORCE to find something related to IRIAF advancements or photos

TFX is not related to Iran
TFX is not an Iranian product nor has ties with it
TFX is not planned for purchase by Iran
Nothing has been rumored tied with TF-X and Iran

This is just polluting into infinite debates that doesn't have a single thing related to Iran, as Turkey and Iran are not military partners neither allies, Iran is sanctioned, Turkey is a NATO member and importing/exporting freely without being threatened of massive sanctions

TFX arguing/development, advancement, rumors, export/import = Turkey section

Whatever related to Iran air-force in terms of advances and rumored foreign jet purchase, export and import= This section

I agree, but sadly the same doner kebab merchants come and pollute this thread (and others) with their nonsense.

The only way this stops is if we do the same in the Torkhe Khar section.