IRIAF | News and Discussions

[BigMelatonin]

So the deal went from 24 Su-35 when it was first reported last year now up to 72 Su-35 + Su-30 production? All while the number of actual aircraft delivered is zero half a year later. Russians will never deliver, you'd have a better chance getting Saudis to sell you some of their F-15s at this point.

 

[mack8]

Bad Example. What’s funny is Iran’s production of domestic missile program and domestic Air Force program BOTH began both in late 90’s.

Production of its own Missile force was Shahab 1-2-3 in late 90’s then in no particular order over the course of 25 years the following were developed:

• Qiam
• F-110
• F-313
• Ghadr
• Emad
• Ashura
• Sejill 1
• Sejill 2
• Khorramshahr
• Khorramshahr 2
• Zolfghar
• Dezful
• Kehibar Shekan
• Solemani

Compare that to Iran’s airforce in 25 years during that same time

• F-5 modernization test bed project starts in late 90’s under name Azarakhsh—> goes thru various iterations —> currently Kowsar-2 and no mass production or significant quantity produced in 23 years
• Owj engine development —> lack of mass production —> slow rate of production?
• Qaher mock up —> propaganda taxi run under Rouhani after years of no info —> project shelved —> now reinvented into an UCAV (so they say)
• F-14AM —> already obsolete upgrade program and never applied to entire fleet
• F-4 upgrade program —> another desperate Upgrade program

That right there is 25+ years of Iran’s airforce achievements in the field of a domestic fighter jet. At this rate, countries will be landing on Mars and Iran will be on Kowsar-3 test bed project.

Please don’t insult our missile engineers, both living and shaheeds, by comparing them to the dumpster fire that is Iran’s Air Force R&D program.

Wanted to reply to this for a while. Don't blame the IRIAF, it's not their fault. They are constantly starved of funds, they don't even have enough money to maintain and overhaul their aircraft regularly, let alone perform the badly needed competent upgrades that exist in one form or another.

They have been forced from the top to waste time and money on that useless two tail Saeqeh thing, AFTER testing showed the aerodynamic modifications were a failure (which is why Kowsar does not have them), but they were ordered to continue with the Saeqeh purely for propaganda reasons (and in those godawful blue yellow colours imitating the americans for some reason), whoever took the decision being unqualified and illiterate as far as aviation matters go.

There was a whole host of decent upgrades for F-5s such as IFR, RWR, new avionics (the SR II upgrade with China which added new radar, MFDs, HUD etc) already in the 2000s, but instead of actually meaningfully upgrading even those 7 aiframes and actually increasing IRIAF effectiveness they just ordered from the top to do the useless Saeqeh conversion which is good for nothing. Might as well throw away those airframes, i personally cringe whenever i see one posted here.

Not to mention the craziness and waste of having TWO air forces (IRIAF and IRGC-AF).

They have been forced from the top to end work on Shafaq which was actually a nice plane that had potential, and instead waste the time on that pitiful Qaher thing which was/is just a scam. Even a modicum of support and competent leadrship and i bet Shafaq would have flown by now, which WOULD have been a reason to be truly proud of.

The Dorna/Tazarve was i guess a first try, butt ugly but at least flew, though it was a failure. I guess it was right to cancel it, though not before killing IRIAF pilots simply because they were ordered from the top to fly an unsafe plane purely for parade.

The Yasin is probably the most decent and competent iranian aircraft to date, it's not spectacular in it's category, doesn't really have to, but would serve well as a trainer, that is if funds for testing and production are provided.

Simply giving the IRIAF enough funds to continue the F-4AM, F-4 Dowran and F-5 Kowsar upgrades at a reasonably pace and just to regularly overhaul it's aircraft would be a godsend for IRIAF compared to the present situation.

So yeah, it's not IRIAFs fault.

 

[glablo]

Shafaq was developed jointly with Russia, but Russia withdrew from the project because of fear of the U.S., so it was impossible to continue.
Russia still continues to play favorites with the US and refuses to sell Iran any decent equipment.
I still doubt that Russia will change its mind and deliver the Su-35.
No country in this day and age can build an aircraft on its own, and both Russia and China are heavily dependent on U.S. technology.
Conversely, the U.S. cannot make fighter jets without China's rare earths, Russia's rare metals, Taiwan's semiconductors, Japan's materials, etc., all of which are supplied by the U.S.
Without access to all of these resources, Iran would have had difficulty just making a copy of the F-5.
Modern, complex fighter planes are not something that can be manufactured alone.

 

[Sineva]

Bad Example. What’s funny is Iran’s production of domestic missile program and domestic Air Force program BOTH began both in late 90’s.

Production of its own Missile force was Shahab 1-2-3 in late 90’s then in no particular order over the course of 25 years the following were developed:

• Qiam
• F-110
• F-313
• Ghadr
• Emad
• Ashura
• Sejill 1
• Sejill 2
• Khorramshahr
• Khorramshahr 2
• Zolfghar
• Dezful
• Kehibar Shekan
• Solemani

Compare that to Iran’s airforce in 25 years during that same time

• F-5 modernization test bed project starts in late 90’s under name Azarakhsh—> goes thru various iterations —> currently Kowsar-2 and no mass production or significant quantity produced in 23 years
• Owj engine development —> lack of mass production —> slow rate of production?
• Qaher mock up —> propaganda taxi run under Rouhani after years of no info —> project shelved —> now reinvented into an UCAV (so they say)
• F-14AM —> already obsolete upgrade program and never applied to entire fleet
• F-4 upgrade program —> another desperate Upgrade program

That right there is 25+ years of Iran’s airforce achievements in the field of a domestic fighter jet. At this rate, countries will be landing on Mars and Iran will be on Kowsar-3 test bed project.

Please don’t insult our missile engineers, both living and shaheeds, by comparing them to the dumpster fire that is Iran’s Air Force R&D program.

Dont forget the iriafs in house drone program that at the end of a 20+ year effort only had 2 kaman 12 airframes to show for it.
Even today the airforce still wastes money trying to develop airforce only drones like the kaman 12 and 22 rather than using the combat proven shahed 129 and mohajer 6.
Dumpster fire is a very apt description.

 

[Joe_Adam]

Doesn't fly but unlike Qaher it's actually feasible & looks good. Atleast they're now planning on making Qaher into an unmanned UAV though. You know what's funny. I thought that they should do that before they announced it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653311751595651073

Even if they spend 20 extra billions, there will be no Turkish modern jet fighter because Turkey lacks human resources, scientific base, its void of mechanical engineering background, it has zero knowledge in navigation systems, radar technology, jet propulsion, aeronautics or any advanced military technology background. Plus, Turkey is a cesspool of corruption renowned the world over, thus, with corruption comes failure. A country which haven't to this day made anything beside assembling run of the mill Korean designed home appliances, and cheap Chinese bicycles and scooters can't possibly produce any worthy industrial gadget from the blue. Turkey couldn't possibly make any worthy fighter jet even on par with a second generation variety jet fighters let alone 4th or 5th generation aircraft.

Propaganda aside, and even with GE by its side, you boys will never see a real Turkish jet fighter, and that's not an opinion, that's a reality and the bitter truth. Just check out their Helicopter and over two decades of MBT projects "via Google search" both platforms are 100% foreign made albeit the MBT is still in limbo to this day. The Helicopter is an Italian platform "fully" but given a Turkish name while the MBT is Korean made from A to Z minus the 120 mm main gun which is of German origin made by Kraussmaffei-Rheinmetall. Now the world is watching a new comic-movie about Erdogan's fighter jet. It's a monumental political stunt by Turkey's version of Iraq's Saddam Hussein.

Turkey couldn't produce the tires let alone rest of the fantasy jet. Now someone will say; well they assembled several dozens of US F-16 which is true but making one from scratch is 100% different since you are not following an assembly instruction manual to put parts together, you must make all the parts and must have a complex project engineering and systems engineering background which Turkey doesn't have and wouldn't be able to have in the next 3 to 4 decades if ever.

 

[TheImmortal]

Also add an AESA radar, and the "PESA bad AESA good" brought by some people is solved

Is Iran capable of making a strategic bomber pretty much like the Tu-22M or Tu-16 the way China did? It would be a massive platform to study on and implement any missile in it, for area denial, carrying Ghadir missile or a maybe future very long range cruise missile, also it could give Iran the ability to use and have a platform to deliver massive ordnance they claimed to have

Blame the traitor Rafsanjani. Russia was offering Iran Tu bombers in early 1990’s after fall of Soviet Union and a fire sale on Russian military arms. Rafsanjani ended up not buying any (went with kilo subs).

Nonetheless, the TU bombers are high RCS objects. They cannot even enter Ukraine airspace due to threat of air defense systems. They are basically useless in a modern battlefield.

 

[xbat]

Even if they spend 20 extra billions, there will be no Turkish modern jet fighter because Turkey lacks human resources, scientific base, its void of mechanical engineering background, it has zero knowledge in navigation systems, radar technology, jet propulsion, aeronautics or any advanced military technology background. Plus, Turkey is a cesspool of corruption renowned the world over, thus, with corruption comes failure. A country which haven't to this day made anything beside assembling run of the mill Korean designed home appliances, and cheap Chinese bicycles and scooters can't possibly produce any worthy industrial gadget from the blue. Turkey couldn't possibly make any worthy fighter jet even on par with a second generation variety jet fighters let alone 4th or 5th generation aircraft.

Propaganda aside, and even with GE by its side, you boys will never see a real Turkish jet fighter, and that's not an opinion, that's a reality and the bitter truth. Just check out their Helicopter and over two decades of MBT projects "via Google search" both platforms are 100% foreign made albeit the MBT is still in limbo to this day. The Helicopter is an Italian platform "fully" but given a Turkish name while the MBT is Korean made from A to Z minus the 120 mm main gun which is of German origin made by Kraussmaffei-Rheinmetall. Now the world is watching a new comic-movie about Erdogan's fighter jet. It's a monumental political stunt by Turkey's version of Iraq's Saddam Hussein.

Turkey couldn't produce the tires let alone rest of the fantasy jet. Now someone will say; well they assembled several dozens of US F-16 which is true but making one from scratch is 100% different since you are not following an assembly instruction manual to put parts together, you must make all the parts and must have a complex project engineering and systems engineering background which Turkey doesn't have and wouldn't be able to have in the next 3 to 4 decades if ever.

so butthurt is much beyond our expectations .

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Even if they spend 20 extra billions, there will be no Turkish modern jet fighter because Turkey lacks human resources, scientific base, its void of mechanical engineering background, it has zero knowledge in navigation systems, radar technology, jet propulsion, aeronautics or any advanced military technology background. Plus, Turkey is a cesspool of corruption renowned the world over, thus, with corruption comes failure. A country which haven't to this day made anything beside assembling run of the mill Korean designed home appliances, and cheap Chinese bicycles and scooters can't possibly produce any worthy industrial gadget from the blue. Turkey couldn't possibly make any worthy fighter jet even on par with a second generation variety jet fighters let alone 4th or 5th generation aircraft.

Propaganda aside, and even with GE by its side, you boys will never see a real Turkish jet fighter, and that's not an opinion, that's a reality and the bitter truth. Just check out their Helicopter and over two decades of MBT projects "via Google search" both platforms are 100% foreign made albeit the MBT is still in limbo to this day. The Helicopter is an Italian platform "fully" but given a Turkish name while the MBT is Korean made from A to Z minus the 120 mm main gun which is of German origin made by Kraussmaffei-Rheinmetall. Now the world is watching a new comic-movie about Erdogan's fighter jet. It's a monumental political stunt by Turkey's version of Iraq's Saddam Hussein.

Turkey couldn't produce the tires let alone rest of the fantasy jet. Now someone will say; well they assembled several dozens of US F-16 which is true but making one from scratch is 100% different since you are not following an assembly instruction manual to put parts together, you must make all the parts and must have a complex project engineering and systems engineering background which Turkey doesn't have and wouldn't be able to have in the next 3 to 4 decades if ever.

We thought same about Chinese regarding their J10 project in 1980s(so did not join their J10 project and now ended up with JF 17)

And same about Turks in 2010s regarding TFX.
Now we are trying hard to get into TFX project but unfortunately much of work has already been done and even if we join now,very little is there to gain.

However,our navy folks are much better in this regard.Milgem project happened to be a great blessing for our shipbuilding skills.

 

[WudangMaster]

Blame the traitor Rafsanjani. Russia was offering Iran Tu bombers in early 1990’s after fall of Soviet Union and a fire sale on Russian military arms. Rafsanjani ended up not buying any (went with kilo subs).

Nonetheless, the TU bombers are high RCS objects. They cannot even enter Ukraine airspace due to threat of air defense systems. They are basically useless in a modern battlefield.

The clinton admin also worked hard to cancel and buy out the weapons deals, with only a fraction surviving.

 

[TheImmortal]

And same about Turks in 2010s regarding TFX.
Now we are trying hard to get into TFX project but unfortunately much of work has already been done and even if we join now,very little is there to gain..

TFX is useless to Turkey’s national security if it ever decides to get punished by US/NATO. When you have foreign parts greater than 5-10% of your aircraft you are in big trouble if you lose access to those parts.

Even Russian airforce and passenger planes have 10% foreign parts and are suffering from sanctions.

How much of TFX is compromised of foreign parts? 30%? 50? 70%? I’m genuinely asking. Because if it’s more than 10% than that plane is useless if Turkey gets kicked out of western sphere. Which might happen if Erodgan gets re-elected and becomes dictator/strongman for life.

 

[LegionnairE]

TFX is useless to Turkey’s national security if it ever decides to get punished by US/NATO. When you have foreign parts greater than 5-10% of your aircraft you are in big trouble if you lose access to those parts.

Even Russian airforce and passenger planes have 10% foreign parts and are suffering from sanctions.

How much of TFX is compromised of foreign parts? 30%? 50? 70%? I’m genuinely asking. Because if it’s more than 10% than that plane is useless if Turkey gets kicked out of western sphere. Which might happen if Erodgan gets re-elected and becomes dictator/strongman for life.

If we get sanctioned by the US we'll buy engines from Russia. But I don't think that's going to happen. I predict that Turkish-US relations will improve in the future.

Though we won't get back into the F-35 program. That ship has sailed.

Blame the traitor Rafsanjani. Russia was offering Iran Tu bombers in early 1990’s after fall of Soviet Union and a fire sale on Russian military arms. Rafsanjani ended up not buying any (went with kilo subs).

Nonetheless, the TU bombers are high RCS objects. They cannot even enter Ukraine airspace due to threat of air defense systems. They are basically useless in a modern battlefield.

By this logic it's a big mistake to buy Su-35s either since they also have huge RCS.

Even if they spend 20 extra billions, there will be no Turkish modern jet fighter because Turkey lacks human resources, scientific base, its void of mechanical engineering background, it has zero knowledge in navigation systems, radar technology, jet propulsion, aeronautics or any advanced military technology background. Plus, Turkey is a cesspool of corruption renowned the world over, thus, with corruption comes failure. A country which haven't to this day made anything beside assembling run of the mill Korean designed home appliances, and cheap Chinese bicycles and scooters can't possibly produce any worthy industrial gadget from the blue. Turkey couldn't possibly make any worthy fighter jet even on par with a second generation variety jet fighters let alone 4th or 5th generation aircraft.

Propaganda aside, and even with GE by its side, you boys will never see a real Turkish jet fighter, and that's not an opinion, that's a reality and the bitter truth. Just check out their Helicopter and over two decades of MBT projects "via Google search" both platforms are 100% foreign made albeit the MBT is still in limbo to this day. The Helicopter is an Italian platform "fully" but given a Turkish name while the MBT is Korean made from A to Z minus the 120 mm main gun which is of German origin made by Kraussmaffei-Rheinmetall. Now the world is watching a new comic-movie about Erdogan's fighter jet. It's a monumental political stunt by Turkey's version of Iraq's Saddam Hussein.

Turkey couldn't produce the tires let alone rest of the fantasy jet. Now someone will say; well they assembled several dozens of US F-16 which is true but making one from scratch is 100% different since you are not following an assembly instruction manual to put parts together, you must make all the parts and must have a complex project engineering and systems engineering background which Turkey doesn't have and wouldn't be able to have in the next 3 to 4 decades if ever.

I just want to save this post to make fun of it 7-8 years later but I'll probably forget.

 

[TheImmortal]

If we get sanctioned by the US we'll buy engines from Russia. But I don't think that's going to happen

Shows how little you know about aircraft’s. You cannot just swap engines on the fly. The entire aerodynamic and physics of the plane changes. Once production line begins on TFX it will be very hard (and costly) to change power plants of the plane if relations shower.

. I predict that Turkish-US relations will improve in the future.

Considering how wrong you are in general. I assume the opposite of your opinion will happen now.

By this logic it's a big mistake to buy Su-35s either since they also have huge RCS.

More naive comments by our village idiot

SU-35 has a RCS of 1m2 to 3m2, according to web sources.

TU-22 to TU-95 should have the same RCS (if not worse) as a B-52 or 100m2+

 

[LegionnairE]

Shows how little you know about aircraft’s. You cannot just swap engines on the fly. The entire aerodynamic and physics of the plane changes. Once production line begins on TFX it will be very hard (and costly) to change power plants of the plane if relations shower.

We can and we will. Just like how F-16 switched to Pratt & Whitney engines, Just like how F15 switched from F100 to F110 engines. These aircraft were in serial production lines too. These things happen, they happen often.

TFX is being designed from ground up to be able to fit a different engine. As long as it has similiar diameter to F110, it will fit.
Whereas this is the closest Iran came to a fifth generation fighter:

SU-35 has a RCS of 1m2 to 3m2, according to web sources.

TU-22 to TU-95 should have the same RCS (if not worse) as a B-52 or 100m2+

Nice comparing a fighter jet to a bomber. Clown.

it has huge RCS for a fighter jet. Bigger than just about all western fighters. RCS isn't everything.

 

[TheImmortal]

We can and we will. Just like how F-16 switched to Pratt & Whitney engines, Just like how F15 switched from F100 to F110 engines. These aircraft were in serial production lines too. These things happen, they happen often.

You are talking about switching from a Western power plant to an Eastern Powerplant. It is no where the same as switching from F100 to F110.

TFX is being designed from ground up to be able to fit a different engine. As long as it has similiar diameter to F110, it will fit.

We aren’t talking about what “fits” we are talking about the difference in thrust, fuel efficiency, etc that are all affected when switching to a vastly different (AL-31 class engine).

Whereas this is the closest Iran came to a fifth generation fighter:

Yes, Iran doesn’t have other countries offering them engines and parts to make a fighter jet. Are you honestly bragging about using GE’s engine? Foreign radar? Hilarious

Let’s see if TFX gets mass produced, it has just had its taxi test. First finished prototype isn’t scheduled till 2028. I have no idea why everyone is arguing about this plane when it’s not even ready. Let time tell.

Nice comparing a fighter jet to a bomber. Clown.

You are the one that first compared them. What a moron.

it has huge RCS for a fighter jet. Bigger than just about all western fighters.

F-16 has a RCS of 5, F-16 Block C has 1.2, F-15 25m2, F-18 at 1m2 or so and Rafael 1m2. So it’s RCS is similar if not better than other “western” 4th Gen fighter.

F-15 has a worse RCS than most Soviet fighters. Again You continuously been proven to lack knowledge of basic things on numerous occasions. I’m not sure why you hang out on this section of the board rather than Turkish side.

Anyway SU-35 is a 4++ gen fighter and should be compared to like peers not 5th Gen fighters like F-35, F-22, J-31, etc

RCS isn't everything.

It is when you are trying to survive on a modern battlefield against modern air defense systems. If you are bombing terrorists than it doesn’t matter.

Here are Former F-16 pilots saying the plane (F-16) has no chance in Ukraine airspace against Russian air defense systems

Former F-16 pilot says he would not want to fly missions over Ukraine right now, arguing 'there is no fighting chance'

Fourth-generation fighter jets lacking stealth features will be outmatched by advanced Russian air-defense systems, a US Air Force veteran said.

www.yahoo.com

 

[LegionnairE]

You are talking about switching from a Western power plant to an Eastern Powerplant. It is no where the same as switching from F100 to F110.




We aren’t talking about what “fits” we are talking about the difference in thrust, fuel efficiency, etc that are all affected when switching to a vastly different (AL-31 class engine).


Yes, Iran doesn’t have other countries offering them engines and parts to make a fighter jet. Are you honestly bragging about using GE’s engine? Foreign radar? Hilarious

Let’s see if TFX gets mass produced, it has just had its taxi test. First finished prototype isn’t scheduled till 2028. I have no idea why everyone is arguing about this plane when it’s not even ready. Let time tell.



You are the one that first compared them. What a moron.



F-16 has a RCS of 5, F-16 Block C has 1.2, F-15 25m2 F-18 at 1m2 or so and Rafael 1m2. So it’s RCS is in range of other 4th Gen fighter.

It’s a 4++ gen fighter and should be compared to like peers not 5th Gen fighters like F-35, F-22, J-31, etc




It is when you are trying to survive on a modern battlefield against modern air defense systems. If you are bombing terrorists than it doesn’t matter.

Here are Former F-16 pilots saying the plane (F-16) has no chance in Ukraine airspace against Russian air defense systems

Former F-16 pilot says he would not want to fly missions over Ukraine right now, arguing 'there is no fighting chance'

Fourth-generation fighter jets lacking stealth features will be outmatched by advanced Russian air-defense systems, a US Air Force veteran said.

www.yahoo.com

1) As long as we have an engine that fits, we'll make it fly. End of story. Russian engine is the absolute worst case scenario, in all likelyhood, Turkish engine will be ready before we get there. Like I said, there's 7-8 years at least.

2) Iran has Russia offering them their highest tech weapons. This is what you can do

Stop blaming others. Nobody forced you to kidnap foreign diplomats. Nobody forced you to destroy all your foreign relations and become a pariah state.

3) What foreign radar? lol. We have the latest tech GaN based AESA radar at home

4) This is the last time I'm talking about this, you absolute retard. If they can detect an F16, they can detect a SU-27 and they can detect a Tupolev. It doesn't matter if your RCS is 1 m'2 or 15 square kilometers. If you want stealth, Su-35 or Tupolev bombers are equally wrong options.