IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Muhammed45]

People still talking about JF-17 and J-10.

 

[LegionnairE]

You clearly don’t have a grasp of how easily Pakistan could be sanctioned into oblivion by the West.

I clearly don't. As far as I'm concerned, Pakistani-US trade must already be at a pretty insignificant level and there's not much more they can do

For the record, the 'unreliable' Chinese engines the Turkish guest here keeps arguing about was the initial lab prototype WS-10 made in the early 2000s.

As far as I know, they are still pretty bad compared to Russian engines. Pakistan being willing to finally put a chinese engine in the JF-17 might be a sign that things are changing but it could just as likely be political with the J-10C deal going on.

They can do even more. Even start a famine if they wanted to.

Pakistan already has food security issues. Cut their imports through USD embargo. Back is broken in 2 seconds and boom, no chance of selling any JF series to Iran.

I don't believe this. Pakistan might be outside dependent but they aren't dependent on America. They'll just buy some rice from the neighboring countries.

You all bring some good points but ultimately, this has never been tried and if successful, it would be a strategic win for Iran. Not just because IRIAF needs these jets but also, for the fact that with this move Iran would be dragging Pakistan further away from America and towards itself.

 

[Ali_Baba]

For the record, the 'unreliable' Chinese engines the Turkish guest here keeps arguing about was the initial lab prototype WS-10 made in the early 2000s. Two decades have passed since then and the WS-10 is at B and C variants with widespread use among PLAAF and the PAF using WS-10Bs (and the PAF doesn't settle for low quality stuff),

PAF does settle for low quality stuff - the A5 Fantans are a perfect example as were the F7's. The performance statistics outside of thrust values, are unknowns for most Chinese engines. If there "were that good" or "comparable" to western engines - then the Chinese would be shouting about them from the roof tops. They are not of course and you have to wonder why...

 

[Ali_Baba]

As far as I know, they are still pretty bad compared to Russian engines. Pakistan being willing to finally put a chinese engine in the JF-17 might be a sign that things are changing but it could just as likely be political with the J-10C deal going on.

PAF has decided to stick with the RD-93 engine, rather than re-engine the JF17Cs with the WS-13E. That tells you alot about the current state of the WS-13E on a procurment versus value proposition.

PAF has made procurements based on operational need that overrides concerns of quality as i have indicated about.

Things may get better with the WS-19 / WS-21 engine(engines) that is being used for the J-35 series, as it may have the reliability values that PAF needs for its backbone fighter. The JF17 fleet will need to be re-engined as the engine lifespan is only rated at 50% of the life of the airframe which is at 4,000hrs of flying. So - the JF17A's will need to be re-engined in the next few years and that is when the decision point becomes significant, ie adopt the WS-21 or continue to use the RD-93s. Given the amount of infrastructure created to support the RD-93 series, they will most likely keep the RD-93 unless China makes the WS-21 available and is prepared to replace the RD-93 support infrastructure as a freebie ... The barrier to change the engine type of the JF17 is very high as the RD-93 has first mover advantage.

 

[TheImmortal]

The JF17 fleet will need to be re-engined as the engine lifespan is only rated at 50% of the life of the airframe which is at 4,000hrs of flying.

Another reason why Iran won’t take the J-17, too much uncertainty around engine wether Russian based or Chinese based. Pakistan doesn’t have to worry that Russia or China will screw it over, Iran does have to worry.

If going with Russian engine based, then makes more sense to buy SU-35 directly from Russia that way you have a direct contract with the supplier and in case Russia does not fulfill its obligation you can sue them in world court like Iran did with S-300 deal and court sided with Iran with $8B judgement vs original $800M deal. Russia then was forced to deliver the product or pay $8B.

 

[Hack-Hook]

PAF has decided to stick with the RD-93 engine, rather than re-engine the JF17Cs with the WS-13E. That tells you alot about the current state of the WS-13E on a procurment versus value proposition.

i have one big problem with RD-93 , Russia for building it just overclocked RD-33 as result it's life expectancy reduced to 2200 hours instead of 4000 hours for RD-33.
all while later generation of RD-33 don't have that problem

The JF17 fleet will need to be re-engined as the engine lifespan is only rated at 50% of the life of the airframe which is at 4,000hrs of flying. So - the JF17A's will need to be re-engined in the next few years and that is when the decision point becomes significant, ie adopt the WS-21 or continue to use the RD-93s.

actually the life expectancy of RD-93 is half of that , that 4000 hours belong to RD-33MK

Another reason why Iran won’t take the J-17, too much uncertainty around engine wether Russian based or Chinese based. Pakistan doesn’t have to worry that Russia or China will screw it over, Iran does have to worry.

If going with Russian engine based, then makes more sense to buy SU-35 directly from Russia that way you have a direct contract with the supplier and in case Russia does not fulfill its obligation you can sue them in world court like Iran did with S-300 deal and court sided with Iran with $8B judgement vs original $800M deal. Russia then was forced to deliver the product or pay $8B.

what make sense is iran get only RD-33MK from russia not all the airplane . if Iran want to go that route as that engine is a lot more suitable for the size of airplane iran working on than AL-31 or AL-41and the engine itself is more fuel efficient

 

[LegionnairE]

Another reason why Iran won’t take the J-17, too much uncertainty around engine wether Russian based or Chinese based. Pakistan doesn’t have to worry that Russia or China will screw it over, Iran does have to worry.

If going with Russian engine based, then makes more sense to buy SU-35 directly from Russia that way you have a direct contract with the supplier and in case Russia does not fulfill its obligation you can sue them in world court like Iran did with S-300 deal and court sided with Iran with $8B judgement vs original $800M deal. Russia then was forced to deliver the product or pay $8B.

Just buy spare engines and keep them in storage? I don't know I think it's a bit too paranoid. Countries tend to maintain their relations with you unless you do things that piss them off.

 

[tsunset]

Aren't they already under lots of American pressure?

Iran could make it worth their while.

40*200 = 8 billion dollars for 200 planes

Good money for Pakistan's struggling economy.



Hmm. Maybe it has to do with the current ruling party, maybe if Imran Khan gets back into office it will work.

Iran should have made this move when he was in office lol. He was known as a pretty anti-American guy

Imran Khan or not you are underestimating the power that the US has over any country economy and security on the globe

8 billion dollar to sell JF-17, good, after that, Pakistan will get removed from SWIFT as the US already has a law that lists all the potential sanctions if dealing with Iran, whether Iran selling things to Pakistan or Pakistan selling to Iran is even worse.

This would be an example of the process if Pakistan is willing to sell even one JF-17:

- Before the sale, the US will unleash and bomb Pakistan with its propaganda networks around the word and particularly in EU, US, and Canada, impacting the Pakistani diaspora also.

- The US will threat Pakistan of repercussion if any delivery happens.

- Israel and its Wahhabi Yahoodi allies will also do the same and pressure Pakistan. Pakistan is one if not the country that is the most impacted by Wahhabism in the world

- If there is a single delivery, the US will unleash what they always called a "package of sanctions" to Pakistan (removal of Pakistan from SWIFT, no F-16 anymore neither replacement parts, it would resemble like Venezuela and their F-16s, shattering sanctions on imports from the US.)

- After this, the US will threat its allies (EU, South Korea, Japan) to make the same and sanction Pakistan, at this point Pakistan is already in a civil war, you mentioned how Imran Khan got easily deleted, even i don't know much about Pakistan politics, it makes me think that Pakistan is currently not stable politically, making the whole thing worse.

- If it continues, the US will never get off Pakistan, they will start to make the same process as Iran on the long term, saying openly that Pakistan "supported Al-Qaeda and Talibans" so we will add more sanctions, and also some thing like "Pakistan acquired nukes illegally, we will add the same package that North Korea received", they will start to demonize Pakistan and Pakistanis everywhere from medias to outlets all around the world. Pakistan will also have to deal with the "special operations" led by Israel and its Wahhabi allies, as well as a pinch of separatism coming from nowhere, which India will have a pleasure to take party into.

The lasts is for the worst case, but would all of that worth 8 billion of $? I'm sure a large country such as Pakistan needs way more than 8bn of $ to survive and evolve

The only "benefits" it could bring to Pakistan is to become an international pariah and reinforce its ties with China, Russia and Iran and join Iran's and Venezuela/North Korea club, at the cost of its whole economy and internal security, i don't think any Pakistani or Pakistani politician wants to risk that or just do that.

 

[renhai]

I also think that Chinese planes are a terrible idea for Iran. Chinese engines are very unreliable, which would create giant problems for Iran.

OMG. What happened to the Turks? He said "Chinese engines are unreliable"? Did he forget that Turkey is only an agricultural country. Even Turkish assembled cars must use Chinese technology. but since when. the turks are as tall as Yao Ming in the forum?

Is it because Turks have too many misunderstandings about modern technology?

..........................

TUSAŞ Engine Industries (TEI) is also the manufacturer of General Electric F110 engines under license.

TFX Engine's third county options are; IHI Corporation XF9 (Japan),Xi'an Aero-Engine Corporation WS-10/WS-15 (China) and UEC Saturn AL-31 (Russia). Pratt & Whitney has F119 engines used at F-22 aircraft, but due to CAATSA, it is unlikely for Turkey to receive such engines from the U.S.

Demir: There are three Alternative Engines for TF-X

Professor İsmail Demir, President of Defence Industries, has presented the TF-X Engine road map for the future. The first TF-X prototypes will fly using F-16 engines (F110-GE-129) acquired from the United States. Demir added that they had determined an alternate functioning approach for the...

www.turdef.com

..............................................................

That said, Turkey will rely on a foreign powerplant for the TF/MMU prototypes and, potentially, the initial production block of the fighter aircraft. TAI had previously discussed that the GE F110, which powers the Turkish Air Force’s F-16s, will be used during the prototype and initial block stages. But recently, Dr. Demir revealed that Turkey is working to secure engines from alternate sources. Dr. Demir emphasized that he would not reveal the source. Considering how the TF/MMU prototypes would use the GE F110, the other engine could potentially be the Chinese WS-10-series or the Russian AL-31-series. Outside of the PW F100 – i.e., another American engine – there are no other comparable engines of the F110’s size

Turkey Sets Direction for Indigenous Fighter Engine

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is developing an indigenous engine through its subsidiary, TR Motor, which it acquired in 2017.

quwa.org

..............................................................

https://twitter.com/x/status/1500044884090130436

..............................................................

Which Turk is lying? Elite Turks or Waste Turks? Look. I have always stressed that "Turks have a serious schizophrenia problem".

 

[renhai]

If there "were that good" or "comparable" to western engines - then the would be shouting about them from the roof tops.

as I know, this is a common problem in South Asia. I guess you must want to know why South Asian countries have failed so much.

 

[renhai]

PAF has decided to stick with the RD-93 engine, rather than re-engine the JF17Cs with the WS-13E. That tells you alot about the current state of the WS-13E on a procurment versus value proposition.

PAF has made procurements based on operational need that overrides concerns of quality as i have indicated about.

Things may get better with the WS-19 / WS-21 engine(engines) that is being used for the J-35 series, as it may have the reliability values that PAF needs for its backbone fighter. The JF17 fleet will need to be re-engined as the engine lifespan is only rated at 50% of the life of the airframe which is at 4,000hrs of flying. So - the JF17A's will need to be re-engined in the next few years and that is when the decision point becomes significant, ie adopt the WS-21 or continue to use the RD-93s. Given the amount of infrastructure created to support the RD-93 series, they will most likely keep the RD-93 unless China makes the WS-21 available and is prepared to replace the RD-93 support infrastructure as a freebie ... The barrier to change the engine type of the JF17 is very high as the RD-93 has first mover advantage.

You should know. Turkey and Pakistan must use Chinese technology even when assembling cars. You have no right to question Chinese technology. So I suggest: if you only have 150cm. Please don't pretend that you are as tall as Yao Ming ~ Don't think repeating Western arguments will make you look less unsuccessful.

Turks and Pakistanis question Chinese aviation engines? do you guys have this qualification? do you guys have misunderstandings about your own country or about the modern civilized world?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1500044884090130436

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Iran will receive a squadron of 24-30 Sukhoi-35s from the Russian Federation, says official familiar with the matter

 

[LegionnairE]

OMG. What happened to the Turks? He said "Chinese engines are unreliable"? Did he forget that Turkey is only an agricultural country. Even Turkish assembled cars must use Chinese technology. but since when. the turks are as tall as Yao Ming in the forum?

Is it because Turks have too many misunderstandings about modern technology?

..........................

TUSAŞ Engine Industries (TEI) is also the manufacturer of General Electric F110 engines under license.

TFX Engine's third county options are; IHI Corporation XF9 (Japan),Xi'an Aero-Engine Corporation WS-10/WS-15 (China) and UEC Saturn AL-31 (Russia). Pratt & Whitney has F119 engines used at F-22 aircraft, but due to CAATSA, it is unlikely for Turkey to receive such engines from the U.S.

Demir: There are three Alternative Engines for TF-X

Professor İsmail Demir, President of Defence Industries, has presented the TF-X Engine road map for the future. The first TF-X prototypes will fly using F-16 engines (F110-GE-129) acquired from the United States. Demir added that they had determined an alternate functioning approach for the...

www.turdef.com

..............................................................

That said, Turkey will rely on a foreign powerplant for the TF/MMU prototypes and, potentially, the initial production block of the fighter aircraft. TAI had previously discussed that the GE F110, which powers the Turkish Air Force’s F-16s, will be used during the prototype and initial block stages. But recently, Dr. Demir revealed that Turkey is working to secure engines from alternate sources. Dr. Demir emphasized that he would not reveal the source. Considering how the TF/MMU prototypes would use the GE F110, the other engine could potentially be the Chinese WS-10-series or the Russian AL-31-series. Outside of the PW F100 – i.e., another American engine – there are no other comparable engines of the F110’s size

Turkey Sets Direction for Indigenous Fighter Engine

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is developing an indigenous engine through its subsidiary, TR Motor, which it acquired in 2017.

quwa.org

..............................................................

https://twitter.com/x/status/1500044884090130436

..............................................................

Which Turk is lying? Elite Turks or Waste Turks? Look. I have always stressed that "Turks have a serious schizophrenia problem".

the topic is not about Turkey. retard. I'm not going to destroy this thread answering your nonsensical shitpost.


@waz

 

[shadihassan28]

the topic is not about Turkey. retard. I'm not going to destroy this thread answering your nonsensical shitpost.


@waz

Other than the retard remark bravo kudos, honestly I’ve been reading your posts lately and you definitely calmed down.

 

[renhai]

the topic is not about Turkey. retard. I'm not going to destroy this thread answering your nonsensical shitpost.


@waz

Please ban this Turkey troll. He has been disrupting every Air Force thread.

@waz

the topic is not about Turkey. retard. I'm not going to destroy this thread answering your nonsensical shitpost.


@waz

or I should open a standalone thread. Tell you how backward Turkey is. And how much Chinese technology Turkey uses. You know I can do it.