IRIAF | News and Discussions

[thesaint]

Unfortunately it's Iranian leadership who is overestimating the value and capabilities of this Aircraft and they are miscalculating the cost efficiency of such a Fighter Jets compared to a more expensive more capable fighter


Fact is if your producing a fighter that you know will at best have a 1 to 10 kill ratio (meaning one 4.5Gen enemy kill for every 10 F-5 kosar losses) then that means when calculating the cost everything from the cost of the Aircraft to maintenance hours required per flight hour, to cost of storage and fueling equipment to cost of pilot training and maintenance crew training to the cost of the onboard weapons requirements all need to get multiplied by 10! So it's not as simple as saying this Fighter is 10Milltion USD and 10 of them would be $100M vs a single Su-35 that would cost me $100 million USD. (And I'm not saying that Iran should purchase fighters simply that the fighters we produce ourselves at home need to be far more expensive and more capable fighters because with manned fighters a cheaper fighter jet doesn't necessarily come out cheaper in the long run)

At the end of the day this is an Aircraft that can't even fly 300km outside Iranian Airspace with ordinance on board.

The F-5E is a very light fighter jet with very limited thrust and range. This is a fighter jet with approximately half the empty weight of an F-16 and with those small weak engines there really isn't much thrust to leave room for any major design changes or improvements that would actually be worth the cost.
Fact is J-85 (owj) engines are NOT good engines for use on an armed manned fighter jet especially not in a country as big as Iran.

Is that kill ratio of 1 to 10 in neutral territory or Iranian air space where they have air defense support?

 

[skyshadow]

Iran Air Force exercise, Qased bomb

 

[TheImmortal]

Is that kill ratio of 1 to 10 in neutral territory or Iranian air space where they have air defense support?

Way to miss the entire point of his argument.

 

[WudangMaster]

Iran Air Force exercise, Qased bomb

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They seem much smaller until I see people right next to them.

 

[thesaint]

Way to miss the entire point of his argument.

Better not comment if you don't know the answer.

 

[skyshadow]

They seem much smaller until I see people right next to them.

exactly

 

[VEVAK]

Is that kill ratio of 1 to 10 in neutral territory or Iranian air space where they have air defense support?

Producing a fighter based on the assumption that your AIDS will not only survive but can actively engage an enemy fighter within the vicinity of your own fighter is absurd.
And I'm not saying you can't use those type of tactics, simply that producing a fighter based on those assumptions is absurd.

 

[TheImmortal]

Better not comment if you don't know the answer.

Better not say retarded things if you want to come off as intelligent.

 

[thesaint]

Better not say retarded things if you want to come off as intelligent.

I just asked a question, it is obvious who is reatarded and outright disgusting.

 

[thesaint]

I let the readers decide if my question was retarded or not:

" Is that kill ratio of 1 to 10 in neutral territory or Iranian air space where they have air defense support?

 

[Ich]

I let the readers decide if my question was retarded or not:

" Is that kill ratio of 1 to 10 in neutral territory or Iranian air space where they have air defense support?

Well, in war, defending your motherland, any kill ratio is accepted as far as enemy dies.

 

[VEVAK]

I let the readers decide if my question was retarded or not:

" Is that kill ratio of 1 to 10 in neutral territory or Iranian air space where they have air defense support?

Your IADS will make incursions more complex and more complicated and yes in your own Air Space you'll have the ability to fly at any altitude and will have far greater ability to go full thrust in any direction while your enemy will clearly be restricted both in terms of the amount of fuel they can use and at what altitude and what direction they can fly. So clearly you'll have an advantage over your own Air space as your enemy will have an advantage over any Air Space they have IADS systems in so they even themselves out because you can't simply factor in your advantages and discard the advantages your enemy will have and a true kill ratio gets calculated AFTER the battle is over and the dust has settled so every factor from your enemies ability to fire LACM at your bases and your ability to fire SAM's at their Aircraft and precision guided missiles at their bases will get factored in because without those factors if you were to put a single F-5(kosar) up against a single 4.5Gen fighter with same skilled pilots head to head the F-5(kosar) will lose 99% of the time.
AESA equipped Aircraft with greater BVR capability that is also equipped with an IRST with greater fuel capacity and thrust to weight ratio will no doubt win every time

And when I said they will at best have a 1-10 kill ratio that is an educated guess not a factual stat and I didn't mean that is the kill ratio they will achieve over Enemy Airspace

 

[TheImmortal]

It’s not worth my time to explain to idiots why a plane built in 1960’s to be a cheap dog fighter in a dogfighting era as well as a cheap export fighter to banana countries (Iran shah being a prime example) cannot be expected to be able to fight and detect a plane made in 2000’s-2010’s (F-35, F-22).

This is without explaining the low combat radius an F-5 has, the weak radar it carries, and the lack of missile that can effectively engage an air superiority fighter.

If the Shah ordered the F-14 in the 1970’s because no Iranian fighter (including F-5) could catch up and take down the Soviet Migs that would routinely violate Iranian airspace. What makes people think an F-5 can effectively engage a 21st century air superiority fighter?

Because it had a few upgrades? Because it’s in its own airspace?

I mean seriously brain cells get lost on this board reading these absurd simulations.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

The worst post on the forum is this one. Intellectual slippages are major here. Iranian scientists and the Iranian military are much smarter than their critics and bogus fighter specialists. The Kowsar remains a very good fighter plane in the overall strategy of Iran which will upset the enemy.

Iranian bogus fighter specialists should take chopsticks and knit slippers. Ls F 14 and F4 will cause surprises too. And in Iran's secret weapons, I suspect Iran already has a fighter plane. The Shafaq project is very mysterious. Iran is hiding things from us and will surprise us for the required time

To your slippers the false specialists

 

[foxhoundbis]

.... I suspect Iran already has a fighter plane.

So do I

Iran is hiding things from us and will surprise us for the required time

I think so too. However, I don't understand why Iran developed J-85. I saw the SU-22's overhauled, well does it mean Iran already produce AL-21? Iran must be developed on its own the RD-33, and the AL-31, I suspect the help of North Koreans and Chinese specialists, if not Russians. Maybe I am wrong. U know better than me.