IRIAF | News and Discussions

[WinterNights]

Just because we don't have the engine, it does not mean they cannot be working on the rest of the plane. They have been working on these smaller planes for decades now, so I am sure they can now at least attempt to work on something new and heavier. Once they have made it, we can use our current RD-33 engines to test the planes if they have not made their own engine by that time.

I don't buy this notion that we have to wait till we have the engine ready and then start developing the plane, that is such a waste of time.

 

[Ray_Atek]

In nose air-intake fighters such mig21 ,f7 and su17/20/22 two problem should solved, location of landing gears and location of air-intake and optimizing these locations in redesign to minimize the fighter drag.
locating landing gears behind air-intake in side or under-bely air intake is what designers adopt as solution.

 

[Myself]

Now the question is which version China has transferred the technology, and what plan Iran Air Force has:
- Basic JL-9: Air Force wants to upgrade the existing FT-7N fleet to JL-9 for advanced training? In this case what is the use of Kowsar?
- FTC-2000:Light fighter with 7 hard points to upgrade F-7N fleet of Dezful? Is t worth to do so?

 

[PeeD]

Just because we don't have the engine, it does not mean they cannot be working on the rest of the plane. They have been working on these smaller planes for decades now, so I am sure they can now at least attempt to work on something new and heavier. Once they have made it, we can use our current RD-33 engines to test the planes if they have not made their own engine by that time.

I don't buy this notion that we have to wait till we have the engine ready and then start developing the plane, that is such a waste of time.

Design certification and serial production of a engine takes a lot of time. Once a more concrete date of availability can be set, airframe design can also set for that date. I fully agree that a prototype would use a just a mature foreign engine for testing.
However the plan is unknown to us.

- It may mean the engines serial production is still too far away, hence the aerodynamic/airframe team maintains, improves skills and trains new manpower. Imagine a scenario of delay of the engine program that delays a new fighter program and the aerodynamic/airframe team takes such a upgrade program in the meantime to be busy.

- It may mean that the aerodynamic/airframe team is not yet skilled enough to design a mach 2 fighter from scratch and does a lower risk upgrade project.

- It may mean that the the IRIAF for some strange reason believes that this upgrade adds sufficient added capability to the F-7. Hence it rather does that instead of testing a demonstrator for a new fighter. A tech. demonstrator/prototype program adds no short-term capability improvement to the existing fleet.

- It may mean that the aerodynamic/airframe team has splittet in two. A main team that does the tech. demonstrator/prototype program for a new fighter that uses a Iranian engine after testing. A small splinter group of the original team that had completed their projects in that main project and could not be keep busy, hence they moved to such a upgrade program to avoid loosing the team. This case is unlikely but such things happen in industry practice. Sometimes aerodynamic design experts are not need anymore full-time during the prototyping and testing phase. To keep them employed and trained, a new small program is started.

I would say that the serial produced engine is still some years away and design experience on a mach 2 capable airframe too low. Hence this project was started to get within the time plan of a future Iranian fighter and have a capable/mature aerodynamic/airframe team by then.

 

[Hack-Hook]

On that poster, the tail appears to be like the JL-9

If this turns out to be nothing more than a project to waste money on upgrading their J-7 then the airforce is truly the most incompetent branch in the entire Iranian army.

If I'm not wrong those j7 are operated by IRGC.

 

[Sineva]

If I'm not wrong those j7 are operated by IRGC.

Then it is an irgc program then?,I had wondered about that.It will be interesting to see if the irgc-af is as successful with modifying the j7 as it was with reactivating the su22 force.

 

[Mithridates]

If I'm not wrong those j7 are operated by IRGC.

f-7s are air force assets

Then it is an irgc program then?,I had wondered about that.It will be interesting to see if the irgc-af is as successful with modifying the j7 as it was with reactivating the su22 force.

right now f-7s are in AF possess but i'm sure they would gladly transfer them to IRGC because the maintenance cost of air force is really high due to different platforms. this possibility makes more sense.

i really hope AF pursues the basic f-20 design and leaves others. we already are behind the saudis in air and tiger shark becuase of it's design based on f-5 would be easier to produce and hopefully fill our gaps compare to southies.

 

[VEVAK]

In any way, if it is for the F-5 platform then: Trading maneuverability for higher speed performance (delta wings) would be a good trade-off (more so if HOBS AAMs become available).
Finally changing the two J85 in the next step to a single RD-33 would be a good final target for the F-5 platform development.

We have to see for what those wings are.

Yes I also believe Delta wings to be the best solution for a future Iranian fighter especially with modern targeting capabilities, modern PGM, IRST's for dog fights & modern BVR capabilities.... but that said the F-5's engines are so weak that the added weight of much larger two peace wings that would most defiantly require heavier fuselage and heavier landing gears will greatly effect thrust to weight ratio of the Aircraft which will negate the positive impacts of delta wings

And I also believe the Kosar to be sufficient for an Iranian CAS fighter platform as long as they build the proper weapons to go with it and Iran shouldn't bother with changing it's design until the engine's are addressed and instead of playing around with CAS fighter designs should think about building larger more capable fighter platforms

I don't see it likely that Iran would have the production capacity of countries like the U.S. and the few fighters we do produce should be larger force multipliers

Do they really look big to you? To my eyes they are actually small.

They are too big and heavy to be used for F-5 conversion with J-85 engines and not big in general especially since they are 2 peace wings(that aren't made out of composites like carbon fiber....) and would required heavier more expensive bulkheads to hold them and would naturally require new landing gears

 

[Mithridates]

guys your underestimating the kowsar it's not f-14 but it has some capabilities:

this is the kowsar radar

and this is the grifo m-346 with the following specifications:

and it's able to engage with two targets at same time.

 

[VEVAK]

That’s PSd!

As I said I don't know if they are real or not and even if they are not PSD for all we know it could be R&D in high end welding of airframe aluminum composites and not really meant to be wings for any specific fighter at all.....

Iran being able to weld a large section of an aluminum composite wing that requires high flexibility at various altitudes and temperatures over years of repeated flights at various G's would be a great achievement for Iran so if the pix are real they don't necessarily need to be wings of any specific fighter for it to be a capability well worth showcasing

 

[Sina-1]

As I said I don't know if they are real or not and even if they are not PSD for all we know it could be R&D in high end welding of airframe aluminum composites and not really meant to be wings for any specific fighter at all.....

Iran being able to weld a large section of an aluminum composite wing that requires high flexibility at various altitudes and temperatures over years of repeated flights at various G's would be a great achievement for Iran so if the pix are real they don't necessarily need to be wings of any specific fighter for it to be a capability well worth showcasing

I was referring to the mid wing f5 you posted as what is a proved photoshopped image. The wings posted are completely real.

 

[VEVAK]

guys your underestimating the kowsar it's not f-14 but it has some capabilities:

View attachment 546129
this is the kowsar radar
View attachment 546130
and this is the grifo m-346 with the following specifications:
View attachment 546131
and it's able to engage with two targets at same time.

Yup at the end of the day it's the modern weapons systems and weapons on your platform that will truly define how deadly a fighter will be in a modern battlefield

And naturally an F-4E equipped with an AN/APG-81 (F-35 radar) and advanced weapons to go with it would naturally be a more capable war fighting machine than lets say an F-35 like platform that's only armed with for example an AN/APG-67

And that's why I believe until Iran develops a new powerplant to power it's fighters then there is really no point in messing with the F-5 design in a significant way unless the changes reduce the aircraft's weight & drag &or reduce cost or ease of production significantly enough for it to make sense or it is an R&D project with the express purpose of building a larger more capable fighter platform around more capable engines in the future

 

[Sineva]

guys your underestimating the kowsar it's not f-14 but it has some capabilities:

View attachment 546129
this is the kowsar radar
View attachment 546130
and this is the grifo m-346 with the following specifications:
View attachment 546131
and it's able to engage with two targets at same time.

But whats it going to engage them with,old 70s era sparrows perhaps?.The grifo is an ok starting point for a radar but without modern bvr weapons like the r77 or something equivalent then basically most of these improvements are just wasted.This is where the airforce just doesnt seem to have its sh!t together frankly,its not enough to build an indigenous f5 based fighter if you havent got the advanced weapons to arm it with and that means a2a like the r73 and r77.

f-7s are air force assets

right now f-7s are in AF possess but i'm sure they would gladly transfer them to IRGC because the maintenance cost of air force is really high due to different platforms. this possibility makes more sense.

It certainly looks like this may have actually happened as we can see in this picture an f7 2 seater carrying an irgc developed yassim glide bomb

 

[Mithridates]

irgc developed yassim glide bomb

yassin and that targeting pod are AF products. the reason IRGC showed them is because they have guts to show their achievements unlike AF. otherwise IRGCAF is a new branch and uses AF assets in many aspects and no one expect them to lead the way in that short time after it funded. dude AF is super paranoid, protective and conservative regarding the domestic programs.there use to be many AF pilot accounts in instagram but HEFA take down almost all of them. in one case they forced one of them to deactivate his account because he shared a footage of newly overhauled f-4 take off at full trust.or another funny fact is that all the footages of the recent AF drill are from last year drill and are not new lol because they tested new munitions like the yassin and qassed.

But whats it going to engage them with,old 70s era sparrows perhaps

sparrow is not that bad really at least it's better than only sidewinders. also we have r-27s and maybe it's active radar guidance version. but i think a missile like sidewinder with beam riding as it's guidance mode with IR terminal guidance would be a good choice for kowsar.

 

[WinterNights]

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