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china already tried to sell us that airplane several years ago, and its in the list of airplanes they are willing to sell to foreign parties

No they did not. Stop spreading lies. There was “rumors” they tried to sell us the outdated J-10A not J-10C. Just like several years ago Russia tried to sell us SU-27 when we asked for SU-30…..not SU-35S.

J-10A…..A plane from late 90’s/early 00’s. If rumors are true, It was rejected (probably because it was outdated).

Pakistan is single benefactor of Chinese military aid and it literally just received J-10C.

Very unlikely China will turn over high tech military aid to Iran. Way to pragmatic for that given it’s mutual economic relations with the West.

The last major Chinese offensive arms deal was for C-802 missiles and that was a headache of deal.
 
honestly if we want to buy a foreign aircraft for that role i believe there is one other aircraft which is more suitable and that is J10-C and china is willing to sell that aircraft, and that come with PL-12 and PL-15 that is better than R-77 that come with Su-35

Acquisition of PL-12/PL-15 will depend upon what radar next generation of Kowsar/Saegheh uses. If it will be of Grifo/NREIT (KLJ series) origin like Kowsar-I, then PL-12/PL-15 will be easy to integrate on them because of open architecture of Leonardo Radars.

Literature published on Kowsar-I's radar says that radar is ditto of Grifo system (replica of Grifo-346) but the TOT for IEI, Iran came from China not Italy directly; Or to avoid sanctions, Leonardo sold the system to Chinese CATIC's radar division called "NREIT" which produces KLJ series radar. They apparently sold the blueprints to Iran under project "Silk Route II". NREIT has no radar product in its brochure equivalent to Grifo-346, the closest is KLJ-7 of FC-1 Block II/JF-17 Thunder which lacks ECCM package like the one in Grifo-346.

If IEI develops next generation's radar on blueprints of Grifo-E (AESA) or its chinese equivalent KLJ-7A then integration of PL-15 will be easy.

Saying that IRIAF will soon have multiple BVR missiles at its hands:

Long range BVR:
Masghsoud (200 KM, ARH, In development)
Fakour-90 (150 KM, SARH, 100 Units delivered)
AIM-54+ (170 KM, ARH, 30 units overhauled)
Mid Range BVR
R-77-1 (100+ KM, ARH, coming)
R-27ER1 (80 KM, SARH, 150 Units)
Local AIM-7E2 Copy (~70-80 KM KM, ARH/IR??, In development)

My money is on local AIM-7E2 becoming the Iranian light BVR missile and it could be ARH/IR.
 
Hi Drmeson,

Are there pictures of this iranian AIM-7E2, and any other info about it, weight, dimensions etc?
 
Hi Drmeson,

Are there pictures of this iranian AIM-7E2, and any other info about it, weight, dimensions etc?

Just one pic, nothing else has been unvieled or published yet

1664358806268.png


Our assumption here like it using modern motor, ARH/IR seeker is based upon the fact that same company (Babaei Missile Industries) that makes Fakour-90 showed it as their product in recent times, offcourse Media did not care to cover it like they should have. That company's favorite method is taking US missiles and putting Iranian motors and seekers in them like Fatter was AIM-9J with Iranian seeker, Fakour-90 is Iranian Shalamche inside AIM-54 like body. So this AIM-7E2 could be very same.

.........

Published Info (Official and Journalistic) do exists on following

Long range BVR:
Masghsoud (200 KM, ARH+ECCM, In development)
Fakour-90 (150 KM, SARH+ECCM, 100 Units delivered already)

WVR
Azarakhsh (40 KM from fighter, 18 KM from UCAV, CCD Imaging IR, 4 x Actuators)
 
J10 is simple not powerful for air superiority fighter Iran needs,F14 can fire 6 long range BVR while TWS 24 target,there are few aircrafts today only with that power,J10 can fire at 2 simultanesly as F16,F16 can fire second long range BVR only when first became active,that mean when shit start,you need more aircrafts to cover same area...
Did you notice J10 just recently got DSI at air intakes,you need that ,ramp or other kind of airflow reducers only for aircrafts that fly over 1.7 or 1.8 mach...which mean,it was not even fast for many roles in older variant....now am not saying J10C is not good but Iran needs to have big boys,two engine air suleriority like SU 35,F15,F14...you cant replace these aircrafts with F16,J10...every country that even consider posibility of going to war maintain at least 2 types of narrow role aircrafts...USAF orders if you check their plans,consist of many aircrafts but F15 is still largest ,they fly F22 ...Russia also.. I see Iriaf buy aircrafts like J10 or Mig 35 only as addition to SU35 or similar aircraft. IRIAF is large,it needs more than one type of aircraft anyway...but right now,priority is powerfull air superiority fighter jet ,and I can agree that it would be worth to buy J10C in addition just to get access to chinese a2a weapons,they indeed offer better range of weapons than Russians
 
J10 is simple not powerful for air superiority fighter Iran needs,F14 can fire 6 long range BVR while TWS 24 target,there are few aircrafts today only with that power,J10 can fire at 2 simultanesly as F16,F16 can fire second long range BVR only when first became active,that mean when shit start,you need more aircrafts to cover same area...

(1) In modern combat, F-14AM upgraded AWG-9 will barely track a ~1 or <1 m2 fighter from ~100-120 KM by rough estimation. So the LR-BVR advantage is neutralized against small RCS fighters like JAS-39E, EF-2000, Rafale, F-16V, F/A-18E/F. These are the adversaries we might face before F-35 start showing up in Persian Gulf states.

(2) Meanwhile F-14 airframe itself has an RCS of 6-10 m2 which will increase if its flying with 4 x large Fakour-90 and 2 x WVR missiles. The Captor-E AESA (EF-2000 T4) or RBE2 (Rafale M) e.g. will see such a large RCS from 150+ KM away to attack it with long-range ARH Meteor BVRAAM or AIM-120D. That if they dont start jamming the AWG-9 first. F-14A/AM in IRIAF has no ECCM package on itself so it would have no chance to defend itself.

Although I am not a fan of J-10C (the operational variant) it has an AESA and ECCM package + PL-15 which has a longer range than an R-77-1.


Did you notice J10 just recently got DSI at air intakes,you need that ,ramp or other kind of airflow reducers only for aircrafts that fly over 1.7 or 1.8 mach...which mean,it was not even fast for many roles in older variant....now am not saying J10C is not good but Iran needs to have big boys,two engine air suleriority like SU 35,F15,F14...you cant replace these aircrafts with F16,J10...every country that even consider posibility of going to war maintain at least 2 types of narrow role aircrafts...USAF orders if you check their plans,consist of many aircrafts but F15 is still largest

F-15 is primarily an attack aircraft in US for quite some time now, they do not use it for aerial engagement since the advent of F-22, F-35. Not saying it can't do that but they have better tools for that like F-22, F-35, F/A-18EF. Its not just US itself, even Japanese, Koreans, Saudis, and Israelis are moving towards the smallest possible RCS fighters and all of them are owners of large F-15 fleets.

The Trends the world is moving toward are

lowest possible RCS
AESA radars with tracking ranges beyond 150 KM for fighter sized targets
ECM/ECCM
Double Duplex Tactical Data linking
Longest possible ARH BVR (AIM-120D, Meteor, Pl-15, R-37)
All-aspect WVR with no-escape zones at 50+KM (AIM-9X Blk II/III) series

IRIAF is kinda ticking many of these boxes.


,they fly F22 ...Russia also. I see Iriaf buy aircrafts like J10 or Mig 35 only as addition to SU35 or similar aircraft. IRIAF is large,it needs more than one type of aircraft anyway...but right now,priority is powerfull air superiority fighter jet ,and I can agree that it would be worth to buy J10C in addition just to get access to chinese a2a weapons,they indeed offer better range of weapons than Russians

To dominate the A2A role, the SU-35S will need a major upgrade package of following

(1) AESA radar with long track ranges, IRBIS-E is not gonna cut it with its 100 KM tracking range against small targets. Its also a PESA which is vulnerable to jamming.

(2) IRIAF will need integration of R-37 LR-BVR missiles on SU-35S to thwart the enemy from distance. The current export variant BVR Russia sells is R-77-1 ARH missile which is barely 100 KM.
 
The Trends the world is moving toward are

lowest possible RCS
AESA radars with tracking ranges beyond 150 KM for fighter sized targets
ECM/ECCM
Double Duplex Tactical Data linking
Longest possible ARH BVR (AIM-120D, Meteor, Pl-15, R-37)
All-aspect WVR with no-escape zones at 50+KM (AIM-9X Blk II/III) series

plus: autonomous unmanned wingman who do the bombing/attack while "mothership" flyes/stays behind and provides data
 
plus: autonomous unmanned wingman who do the bombing/attack while "mothership" flyes/stays behind and provides data

Yes and as rudimentary as it right now IRIAF does have Karrar with Azaraksh-WVR missile for this job. The UCAV has the speed, altitude to threaten the enemy.


1664385102815.png


The range of the missile suffers greatly right now because IR seeker of the missile has to track the target itself. The same problem R-73 cant be integrated on any IRIAF fighter. Either they give Karrar an IRST or Tactical datalink with fighters (Kowsar-1 has this) to provide coordinates. None the less its a start. IMO karrar should be enlarged with larger Toloue turbojet. Project can be a gold mine for IRIAF.
 
Either they give Karrar an IRST or Tactical datalink with fighters (Kowsar-1 has this) to provide coordinates.

This for sure is in the development. But it has to be a system what can implement also on other fighters...like SU-35. It will take some time cause the electronic in SU-35 has to be modified, but this anyway has to be done cause of better radar and BVR provided by own systems.
 
This for sure is in the development. But it has to be a system what can implement also on other fighters...like SU-35. It will take some time cause the electronic in SU-35 has to be modified, but this anyway has to be done cause of better radar and BVR provided by own systems.

Following are a must for IRIAF in coming years

Domestic AESA airborne radars
Double duplex tactical datalinking for every Fighter, UCAV
Lighter weight ARH BVR missile
High ranged Imaging seeker WVR that can be carried by UCAVs and CAP fighters
 
Just one pic, nothing else has been unvieled or published yet

View attachment 883198

Our assumption here like it using modern motor, ARH/IR seeker is based upon the fact that same company (Babaei Missile Industries) that makes Fakour-90 showed it as their product in recent times, offcourse Media did not care to cover it like they should have. ...


Our or Your assumption!??

Come on, the AIM-9 dies not use an IR-seeker and as such it is even more unlikely any reverse-engineered clone would even feature a double seeker combining radar and IR!
 
Yes and as rudimentary as it right now IRIAF does have Karrar with Azaraksh-WVR missile for this job. The UCAV has the speed, altitude to threaten the enemy.


View attachment 883272

The range of the missile suffers greatly right now because IR seeker of the missile has to track the target itself. The same problem R-73 cant be integrated on any IRIAF fighter. Either they give Karrar an IRST or Tactical datalink with fighters (Kowsar-1 has this) to provide coordinates. None the less its a start. IMO karrar should be enlarged with larger Toloue turbojet. Project can be a gold mine for IRIAF.

this is an a2g missile.
 
Our or Your assumption!??

Me and another user Hack Hock discussed the possibilities of Iranian modification in local AIM-7E2 pages back extensively so its not just me.

Come on, the AIM-9 dies not use an IR-seeker

Every major version of AIM-9 uses some type of IR seeker, what are you talking about?

and as such it is even more unlikely any reverse-engineered clone would even feature a double seeker combining radar and IR!

I think you are confusing Iranian AIM-9 copies called Fatter, Azarakhsh which are in service with recently shown Iranian AIM-7E2 for which we literally have no information. Nobody said anywhere that AIM-9 has radar???? we were just assuming that this new AIM-7E2 copy might have local ARH or may be some modern IR seeker. AIM-9 copies have nothing to do with it.

This may help

AIM-9J/P copy in Iran is called Fattar (limited production since 2010s)
AIM-9X like missile in Iran is called Azarakhsh (Recently unvieled, has A2A, A2G versions)
AIM-7E2 Copy ... No info yet


Details of Azarakhsh WVR missile

https://www.key.aero/article/how-iran-manages-keep-its-f-14-tomcats-flying


1664447971168.png


this is an a2g missile.

Azarakhsh has both A2A and A2G versions

https://www.key.aero/article/how-iran-manages-keep-its-f-14-tomcats-flying
 
Me and another user Hack Hock discussed the possibilities of Iranian modification in local AIM-7E2 pages back extensively so its not just me.



Every major version of AIM-9 uses some type of IR seeker, what are you talking about?



I think you are confusing Iranian AIM-9 copies called Fatter, Azarakhsh which are in service with recently shown Iranian AIM-7E2 for which we literally have no information. Nobody said anywhere that AIM-9 has radar???? we were just assuming that this new AIM-7E2 copy might have local ARH or may be some modern IR seeker. AIM-9 copies have nothing to do with it.

This may help

AIM-9J/P copy in Iran is called Fattar (limited production since 2010s)
AIM-9X like missile in Iran is called Azarakhsh (Recently unvieled, has A2A, A2G versions)
AIM-7E2 Copy ... No info yet


Details of Azarakhsh WVR missile

https://www.key.aero/article/how-iran-manages-keep-its-f-14-tomcats-flying


View attachment 883439



Azarakhsh has both A2A and A2G versions

https://www.key.aero/article/how-iran-manages-keep-its-f-14-tomcats-flying


But why then did you post a AIM-7 image? This is clearly not an AIM-9 based design. I only quoted you and the image you used above.
 
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