IRIAF | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

I dont think that there was ever any real serious chance [previously] of iran acquiring these,as the ka-226ts that were being tested in iran used french engines.Indeed I think that the only power plant choices were western,from allison ,to rr,to turbomeca.
Of course now that these are no longer an option for russia,there is a possibility of iran purchasing these helos.......provided of course that the russians can develop an indigenous engine replacement for them.

Sanctions (at the time) did not apply to Ka-226 because it was during period of JCPOA and civilian jetliners/helicopters were allowed during that brief window.

As far as I remember they were to be used for medivac as well as search and rescue. Plus they weren’t being purchased in any serious amount of numbers to warrant possible military transfer concerns.

 

[SalarHaqq]

List of countries by number of heliports - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Iran probably doesn't quite rank in third position, but the numbers in this list seem exaggeratedly low for Iran. They claim Iran with a 128 units has fewer military helicopter than the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and put the number of civilian helicopters in Iran at a mere 80. Real numbers should be significantly higher than that.

 

[Hack-Hook]

arms procurement is not just technical, its also political. A tool to support some countries financially to build political bridges. Indians did what they needed to do to secure Moscow's support for India in many regional matters.

ka-226 by no definition can be categorized to anything but a light utility helicopter.

Iran is probably doesn't quite rank in third position, but the numbers in this list seem exaggeratedly low for Iran. They claim Iran with a 128 units has fewer military helicopter than the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and put the number of civilian helicopters in Iran at a mere 80. Real numbers should be significantly higher than that.

---

in Iran if you have money obtaining an airplane is far easier than obtaining a helicopter co outside Iran wealthy people have the option of personal helicopter in Iran they can have personal aircraft but there is no option on buying a personal helicopter

 

[SalarHaqq]

we actually import the engine , did i say we built them . i say we build the helicopter or you guys claiming all the news about we build those helicopters are lie . and bell 206 and 214 play the same role as ka-226 if they are light helicopter then ka-226 is also light helicopter.

and wonder why you compare AH-1 with Ka-226 . they have different role
Ka-226

bell-214

bell-206

now tell me what make Ka-226 more suitable for iran ? it use wheel instead of Skids ?
do we have any facility to maintain Ka-226 ? we have the facility to maintain Bell Helicopters , we new them in and out , we knew nothing about ka-226

and for the record this is AH-1J

a complete different design for a complete different purpose and If i want to go and fight enemy helicopters and tanks i'll take it every time over ka-226

The Ka-226 is a twin-rotor helicopter, something Iran is not operating yet. It would thus represent a technological novelty and that's why Iran has been showing interest in the type for quite some time. Acquisition of a reasonably small-sized batch from Russia would give a boost to domestic R&D, as practically every item Iran purchased from Russia in the past.

Again, I don't think Iranian planners and decision makers are misinformed or short-sighted. They most definitely aren't sell outs either, so they won't choose to sideline domestic production in order to please a foreign power. In other terms, the very rare instances in which they opt for imports, their choice has rational justifications, even if some might fail to see or acknowledge said justifications.

in Iran if you have money obtaining an airplane is far easier than obtaining a helicopter co outside Iran wealthy people have the option of personal helicopter in Iran they can have personal aircraft but there is no option on buying a personal helicopter

Assuming this is the case, how is it related to my comment?

---

Maybe your zionist master wants Iran to be a lamb to slaughter, but you mask it with contrived demand for self efficiency. This is virtue signalling at its worst! So im Russian because I think its okay to trade with them, but you have no issue with Iran being a lackey of the west. Therein lies the double standards!

However if I may offer and advice, brother, if Iran will gain in acquiring limited quantities of token products from Russia, that's not because of lacking domestic capabilities. We shouldn't be suggesting that Ka-226 imports are preferable than domestic production of Bell copies on grounds that the former would be accompanied by technical assistance from abroad while the latter wouldn't. This sort of argument could be turned against us by pretending we're the ones who wish to subject Iran to an outside power.

 

[Hack-Hook]

SU-35S will eventually land in Iran with its IRBIS-E and R-77-1. Rest I am not sure of because I have yet to see a picture of Ka-226 in Iranian colors. Authentic sources reported its evaluation inside Iran by Iran army aviation or naval aviation but nothing beyond that.

both waste of money .
and this ka-226, in 2017 they want to buy it for search and rescue but the deal didn't went through
the helicopter has weak engine only 580shp each engine in contrast bell-214 engine have 2930shp

by the way who recall this USA helicopter designed in 1953 and retired in early 70s (for the people who said ka-226 has more modern design than bell 206, 205 or 214 or saba-248)

Assuming this is the case, what does it have to do with my comment?

answer about your wonder about why Iran have little civilian helicopters , all the helicopters here belong to armed force or organizations

 

[Hack-Hook]

their relentless defense of the shah regime including its massive imports of overpriced weapons from the USA (and close to zero domestic defence industries to balance it out)

but you yourself , time and time and times said that iran did have zero production capability at the time of pahlavi , so its strange . you condamn Mohammad Reza Pahlavi importing weapon from west when iran had zero production capability . but now that we have the capability to produce them you and certain members here support importing them from Russia .

very strange

The Ka-226 is a twin-rotor helicopter, something Iran is not operating yet. It would thus represent a technological novelty and that's why Iran has been showing interest in the type for multiple years. Acquisition of a reasonably sized batch from Russia would give a boost to domestic R&D, as practically every item Iran purchased from Russia in the past.

not exactly for the fun of it let search twine rotor helicopter in google

twin-rotor helicopter - Google Search

don't you think the first helicopter that show up is a little familiar, we have around 40 of them

 

[SalarHaqq]

answer about your wonder about why Iran have little civilian helicopters , all the helicopters here belong to armed force or organizations

Civilian helicopters aren't necessarily in private hands, they include all helicopters operated by the Red Crescent and other non-military state institutions. At any rate, the figure they're giving for military helicopters is definitely understated, probably several fold.

but you yourself , time and time and times said that iran did have zero production capability at the time of pahlavi , so its strange . you condamn Mohammad Reza Pahlavi importing weapon from west when iran had zero production capability . but now that we have the capability to produce them you and certain members here support importing them from Russia .

very strange

But what exactly did I suggest Iran could import? Surely not as good as her entire military like the shah regime used to do, but extremely few, select types of items, and in small quantities at that. And only if it gives a boost to Iran's own R&D (in the case of the Ka-226 because of its twin-rotor technology which Iran could then reverse-engineer for future helicopter types of her own), or if there's a chronological constraint as in the exceptional case of the air force, where it's not certain that Iran will be fielding her own heavy interceptors in sufficient numbers soon enough i.e. before the IRIAF will be forced to retire it's F-14's for good. Even then I advocated to restrict any purchase of Flankers to between 36 and 48 airframes in order to stay within the limits of Iran's asymmetric doctrine.

And I'm not opposed to mass producing Kosars by the way, arguments put forth on here in favor of this convinced me. I just think the future IRIAF could use a heavy interceptor as well, rather than relying solely on light fighters. To me it's not an either/or proposition here, but a and/and one. Some have argued for Flankers instead of Kosars, I don't, I wouldn't mind seeing both in Iranian service and with far superior numbers of Kosars too.

One other exceptional product I believe Iran could buy from Russia for lack of domestic availability in the foreseeable future, are heavy transport planes. Perhaps a few additional Il-76 (for which Iran already has support infrastructure) could be beneficial, and maybe a handful of An-124's. And that's pretty much it. Any other armaments sometimes evoked by users (like Armata tanks, Bastion coastal AShM batteries, S-400's etc), I would definitely not endorse. Now this isn't exactly a huge shopping list, is it.

So my modest suggestion can't be assimilated with pre-revolutionary practice, when about 99% of armaments were imported. If Iran were to go ahead with these two deals, she would still be producing over 98% or so of her arsenal at home. Guess I'm an advocate of 98% self-sufficiency in the military field for the upcoming ten to fifteen years (after which 100% should be a realistic goal), in contrast to the approximately 1% self-sufficiency Iran was enjoying before 1979.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Civilian helicopters aren't necessarily in private hands, they include all helicopters operated by the Red Crescent and other non-military state institutions. At any rate, the figure they're giving for military helicopters is definitely understated, probably several fold.

here it provide 320 ytility and transport + 160 attack helicopter

List of equipment of the Iranian Army - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SalarHaqq]

here it provide 320 ytility and transport + 160 attack helicopter

List of equipment of the Iranian Army - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's 352 (!) more than the other list on Wikipedia is alleging. And it would place Iran in 13th position on that same list.

 

[sanel1412]

arms procurement is not just technical, its also political. A tool to support some countries financially to build political bridges. Indians did what they needed to do to secure Moscow's support for India in many regional matters.



SU-35S will eventually land in Iran with its IRBIS-E and R-77-1. Rest I am not sure of because I have yet to see a picture of Ka-226 in Iranian colors. Authentic sources reported its evaluation inside Iran by Iran army aviation or naval aviation but nothing beyond that.

If Iranian Russian relations last for another 10 years like how they are right now then SU-35S fleet will grow upto 80-100 fighters possibly with TOT. BT is saying the plan is for 64 SU-35S. They will replace F-4E/D for sure and help retire the circus prop fleet of Mirages F1Q/EQ, F-7N, F-5E/F. If the relations get cold and a repeat of 1990s happen then by 2030 will see IRIAF flying 24 x SU-35S with 10-15 F-14AM and some 20-30 Kowsar-I. Rest fleet will be gone by then or put in storage (MIG-29, SU-24).



No

List of countries by number of heliports - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can you post any pic of Ka-226 in the Iranian service?

IF you Use wikipedia for reference than there is realy nothing I can discuss with you, you can Use Google maps and count 3 times of that number Just in few air bases. Why these numbers are so low, well probably because many dont understand that IRIAF operate 10 times less helicopters than IRIAA, than you have Navy, IRGC, Police+ civilian fleet. Yes Iran realy posses 3th largest fleet, It has large civilian fleet also.. I follow Iran military for 20+ Years and this forum is realy starting to look Like fucking Child play ground... No offense, I respect every member.

 

[sanel1412]

I May confuse Kamov with this Eurocopter, but I Will look for picture, I am almost sure I saw Kamov, with its rotor configuration it is unique

 

[sanel1412]

If you check, even wikipedia lists IRIAA more than 300 helicopters, and I Know for sure Iran posses one of the largest civilian fleet.. I saw most western sources and all sources are confusing, and mostly because they dont count all branche and if you count all Helicopters of IRIAA, IRIAF, Police, Navy, IRGC, IRGC navy.. etc.. You get 500-600 units.. Add to that also large civilian fleet.. You Got idea

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

However if I may offer and advice, brother, if Iran will gain in acquiring limited quantities of token products from Russia, that's not because of lacking domestic capabilities. We shouldn't be suggesting that Ka-226 imports are preferable than domestic production of Bell copies on grounds that the former would be accompanied by technical assistance from abroad while the latter wouldn't. This sort of argument could be turned against us by pretending we're the ones who wish to subject Iran to an outside power.

Thank you brother but, with all due respect, the quote you have of me does not suggest what you are claiming. Allow me to point you in the direction of my stance on the matter, in this very thread, when I was speaking to Hack:

These are helicopters which can be built much quicker and to a higher quality and spec than what we can! That doesnt mean we should cease internal production...if the funds are there we should do both and not restrict ourselves to just one path! And definitely it has to be a country that is the lesser evil which right now is Russia, not your non-binary masters in US.

As you can see I proposed a balanced approach where the reality is we should be doing both. But the liberal/eslahtalab that reside on this forum like to look at one aspect of what im saying and delete as appropriate to fit their argument. Clutching at straws if you ask me.

 

[sanel1412]

This is quote from wikipedia IRAA page, as of septembar 2021
Islamic Republic of Iran Army Aviation (IRIAA) (in Persian: هواپیمایی نیروی زمینی جمهوری اسلامی ایران), more commonly known as Havānīrūz (هوانیروز, Persian pronunciation: [hævɒːniːˈɾuːz]),‎[1] is the army aviation of the Iranian Army ground forces. It is the largest and most professional army aviation service in the Middle East, possessing no less than 300 helicopters both for attack and transport uses.[2] It is also the most experienced in the region, having fought the brutal Iran–Iraq War in the 80s, in which the Havanirooz played a crucial role in destroying and defeating the invading Iraqi armies.[3]


So, I advise not to Use wikipedia for granted, sometime it gets handy, for fast reference but It is Full of nonsense

 

[Hack-Hook]

Thank you brother but, with all due respect, the quote you have of me does not suggest what you are claiming. Allow me to point you in the direction of my stance on the matter, in this very thread, when I was speaking to Hack:

you were clear , no doubt in what you meant

Your tiny brain doesn't realise that Iran doesnt have the money nor the manpower nor the time nor the technology to do anything you mentioned. Iran has been under sanctions, and despite its steller efforts at being self sufficient it doesnt mean they dont need some help! Surely your tiny brain would have figured out that if Iran could have done it they surely would have done it. But you seem to think Iran can pull out a 4th Gen aircraft out of it's arse like magic trick! Your zionist masters have really drained your brain here like a zombie NPC!