IRIAF | News and Discussions

[drmeson]

Looks like a local made AIM-7E2.

could be the basis of local light weight BVR for F-14AM, F-4E/D, Kowsar-I.

I hope it has an ARH seeker and a longer range

Someone on twitter suggesting that this could be Fakour-90's seeker, electronics inside locally produced body of AIM-7E2 with local motor which means SARH with ECCM, ~60-70 KM range. Something like a modernised British Skyflash missile. Not a bad starting point for local light weight BVR.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Someone on twitter suggesting that this could be Fakour-90's seeker, electronics inside locally produced body of AIM-7E2 with local motor which means SARH with ECCM, ~60-70 KM range. Something like a modernised British Skyflash missile. Not a bad starting point for local light weight BVR.

considering that R-27 was the result of russian studying AIM-7 and AIM-7F and AIM-7M reached those range by changing the engine of AIM-7E to a dual stage rocket and dramatically increased the hit rate of the missile by changing the electronic inside it to modern equipment that's completely feasible but about the seeker it must be different from Fakour seeker . after all AIM-7 supposed to have a diameter of 20cm and AIM-54 that share the same body as fakour to some extent have a diameter of 38cm, even if we say fakour share the diameter of MIM-23 that is 37cm

 

[drmeson]

considering that R-27 was the result of russian studying AIM-7 and AIM-7F and AIM-7M reached those range by changing the engine of AIM-7E to a dual stage rocket and dramatically increased the hit rate of the missile by changing the electronic inside it to modern equipment that's completely feasible

Fakour-90's seeker is a tried and tested successful SARH with ECCM. According to report published on key aero, the seeker has been tested to get a lock on Stealth Shahed-191 (0.1 m2 RCS) while Falcons were used to jam the missile so its a proven thing. That on a AIM-7E2 means atleast the electronics are as modern as it gets.

With a composite incorporated body and a MK-58 inspired booster+sustained flight motor it will be a SARH+ECCM, BVR missile with a range of 70 KM. It will give some level of protection to F-4E/D fleet while F-14AM can fly with 2 Fakour-90, 2 Local Sparrow, 2 Azaraksh. A deadly package ranging from 40km to 150 KM.

Saegheh/Kowsar next generation is taking shape.

1 x Al-31F Turbofan
Bit Larger Airframe with added fuel
FBW
Bayenaat-II/Grifo-346 radar or AESA (Grifo-E/KLJ-7A equivalent)
E-Warfare suite with RWR, IFF, ECCM
INS/TACAN, UHF/VHF
Double Duplex Tactical Data linking
Azarakhsh for CCD-guided WVR attack
Local Sparrow for SARH-BVR attack.
Glide SOWs

I believe this plane will cost something around 22 Million USD/unit but will be hell in the sky to deal with.

 

[sanel1412]

Looks like a local made AIM-7E2.

could be the basis of local light weight BVR for F-14AM, F-4E/D, Kowsar-I.

I hope it has an ARH seeker and a longer range

I remeber there was talk about IRIAF integrating PL12 on some upgraded F 4,it would not be bad option to copy PL 12 and package it in to AIM 7, at this way it would fit existing paylons. And to be fair, smaller diameter ARH AAM is well within Iran capability, it was Just mater of alocating money... We already saw Iranian domestic ARH seeker with 45km range, that is in pair with today moderan ARH seeker. But lets wait, maybe in Day or two specifications Will pop up,and we will find out more

Someone on twitter suggesting that this could be Fakour-90's seeker, electronics inside locally produced body of AIM-7E2 with local motor which means SARH with ECCM, ~60-70 KM range. Something like a modernised British Skyflash missile. Not a bad starting point for local light weight BVR.

View attachment 874232


View attachment 874234

Fakour 90 is ARH Just Like AIM 54,with better ARH seeker.. AIM 54 seeker have range 25km fully acive, while Fakour has 45km.... SARH is bistatic arrangment, missile doesnt have transmiters at all, it has only passive reciver, it looks very difernt than ARH. I dont Know where that info came, but It is wrong.. And even description of missile durring introduction clearly describe ARH

 

[drmeson]

I remeber there was talk about IRIAF integrating PL12 on some upgraded F 4,it would not be bad option to copy PL 12 and package it in to AIM 7, at this way it would fit existing paylons. And to be fair, smaller diameter ARH AAM is well within Iran capability, it was Just mater of alocating money... We already saw Iranian domestic ARH seeker with 45km range, that is in pair with today moderan ARH seeker. But lets wait, maybe in Day or two specifications Will pop up,and we will find out more

Except for the fact that Iran does not have PL-12 or access to it. The talk was in 2009-10 when Dowran upgradation started that there would be Chinese upgrades on the F-4E/D to the point that they will become JH-7A equivalents for long-range attack. Integration of PL-12 and PL-5C was among them. But systems they showed later like the PD Radar (Bayyenat-I), Chaff/Flare dispenser, CFT/MFD's, the local AShCM all are Iranian products which implies that the upgrade program was local and nothing from China ever landed for F-4E/D inside Iran including PL-12.

This Iranian AIM-7 I guess, like Fakour-90 and Azarakhsh WVR, will turn out to be an entirely local thing. Probably, a Fakour-90 packed inside the locally AIM-7E2 airframe so that F-14A/AM, F-4E/D, Kowsar-I can all get a decent modern lightweight BVR package for CAP and QRA missions.

I dont Know where that info came

1) https://www.key.aero/article/new-claws-persian-cats

2) Shalamche uses SARH guidance, and Fakour-90 is Shalamache inside locally produced AIM-54's modified body.

And even description of missile durring introduction clearly describe ARH

Can you show it ?

 

[sanel1412]

I cant find Fakour 90 seeker image, I am sure it is Already posted somewhere here. But here hate few ARH seekers vs SARH... SARH since it is bistatic arrangment where missile has only passive reciver has very different head,while ARH looks as standard airborne radar, which in way it is
First is SARH, rest ARH

Except for the fact that Iran does not have PL-12 or access to it. The talk was in 2009-10 when Dowran upgradation started that there would be Chinese upgrades on the F-4E/D to the point that they will become JH-7A equivalents for long-range attack. Integration of PL-12 and PL-5C was among them. But systems they showed later like the PD Radar (Bayyenat-I), Chaff/Flare dispenser, CFT/MFD's, the local AShCM all are Iranian products which implies that the upgrade program was local and nothing from China ever landed for F-4E/D inside Iran including PL-12.

This Iranian AIM-7 I guess, like Fakour-90 and Azarakhsh WVR, will turn out to be an entirely local thing. Probably, a Fakour-90 packed inside the locally AIM-7E2 airframe so that F-14A/AM, F-4E/D, Kowsar-I can all get a decent modern lightweight BVR package for CAP and QRA missions.




1) https://www.key.aero/article/new-claws-persian-cats

2) Shalamche uses SARH guidance, and Fakour-90 is Shalamache inside locally produced AIM-54's modified body.



Can you show it ?

NO it is not, that nonsense that Fakour is Salamache came from fact that few prototypes had same motor designation as I Hawk, a lot of nonsense as I said...There is literary image of Fakour 90 ARH seeker from exibition posted here somewhere and on Twitter, I pick that image from Instagram but cant find it, I Will eventualy and repost

 

[sanel1412]

When Fakour 90 is introduced there was literary description of the missile that said "... doesnt Depend on aircraft radar.." I bet many users Will recall this.. This is not posible with SARH since SARH is one radar with 1 transmiter and 2 recivers... 1 in aircraft and one in missile

 

[drmeson]

I cant find Fakour 90 seeker image, I am sure it is Already posted somewhere here.

I have never seen any such image. I have followed the missiles development very closely. If you find it please post it here.

-Officially it has never been clarified it is SARH or ARH system.
-Mashreghnew article on it could not clarify it either.
-BT in AirInternational said SARH and limited to F-14AM only (The link I posted above)
- Same article also said that the reason another Maghsoud ARH missile with 200 KM range is being made is because Fakour-90 is SARH.

Make of it as you will.

But here hate few ARH seekers vs SARH... SARH since it is bistatic arrangment where missile has only passive reciver has very different head,while ARH looks as standard airborne radar, which in way it is
First is SARH, rest ARH


View attachment 874240View attachment 874241View attachment 874242View attachment 874243

This discussion is futile until we see Fakour's seeker. We have seen Shalamche's seeker which is present in the above slide. If Fakour-90 uses the Shalamche seeker then it will use that seeker in the slide.

NO it is not, that nonsense that Fakour is Salamache came from fact that few prototypes had same motor designation as I Hawk, a lot of nonsense as I said...

The notion that Fakour-90 is Shalamche inside AIM-54 airframe came from the fact that since the late 80s few F-14A of IRIAF were modified to carry I-Hawks designated as AIM-23C Sejjil. Its an open thing. They even have been reported to score aerial kill with that missile. Iran later started local production of Hawks as Shalamche SAMs with modern electronics. So came the idea that Fakour-90 is a Shalamche reborn inside AIM-54 with M112 motor which later got changed with locally design M190 motor.

Production version Fakour-90 uses some Iranian M190 Motor which has a much larger operational Temperature domain pointing towards improved operation at higher cieling.

There is literary image of Fakour 90 ARH seeker from exibition posted here somewhere and on Twitter, I pick that image from Instagram but cant find it, I Will eventualy and repost

Looking forward to that.

 

[Sineva]

 

[sanel1412]

Fakour 90 seeker, I Will find image I have it... It is exactly same image Like this one, Just little different , this is also ARH seeker, but 1st generation...

 

[sanel1412]

I found some old images, now I Will post Iranian ARH and SARH seekers and Russian ARH and SARH seekers for Buk and A2A missiles just for comparation

First 3 images are Iranian seekers, there are ARH seekers(on right side) and SARH(left) ... And 4th one is Buk SARH ,5th and 6th ARH

Here is good comparation of two seekers for Buk, built by Agat... Left SARH
( 9E420 digital CW dual plane monopulse semiactive radar homing seeker)
On right:also Agat ARGS monopulse active radar homing seeker for Buk missiles

 

[Hack-Hook]

Fakour-90's seeker is a tried and tested successful SARH with ECCM. According to report published on key aero, the seeker has been tested to get a lock on Stealth Shahed-191 (0.1 m2 RCS) while Falcons were used to jam the missile so its a proven thing. That on a AIM-7E2 means atleast the electronics are as modern as it gets.

With a composite incorporated body and a MK-58 inspired booster+sustained flight motor it will be a SARH+ECCM, BVR missile with a range of 70 KM. It will give some level of protection to F-4E/D fleet while F-14AM can fly with 2 Fakour-90, 2 Local Sparrow, 2 Azaraksh. A deadly package ranging from 40km to 150 KM.

Saegheh/Kowsar next generation is taking shape.

1 x Al-31F Turbofan
Bit Larger Airframe with added fuel
FBW
Bayenaat-II/Grifo-346 radar or AESA (Grifo-E/KLJ-7A equivalent)
E-Warfare suite with RWR, IFF, ECCM
INS/TACAN, UHF/VHF
Double Duplex Tactical Data linking
Azarakhsh for CCD-guided WVR attack
Local Sparrow for SARH-BVR attack.
Glide SOWs

I believe this plane will cost something around 22 Million USD/unit but will be hell in the sky to deal with.

my concerns is the size , Fakour-90 have a diameter of 37-38cm , AIM-7 a diameter of 20cm which is a little more than half of fakour-90 diameter . fakour 90 seeker literally will not fit inside AIM-7 . they must have used another seeker

 

[TheImmortal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1562763179368669184

several users on here criticized my underground airbase Idea as not realistic. Months later, IRIAF revealed their first one.

Today they flew out Iran’s drones, Tomorrow Iran’s interceptors.

4-5 mountain airbases can protect at least 50-75 Iranian interceptors

It is the most realistic solution to protect Iran’s high value aircraft (including next gen drones) from saturation based attacks (CMs/PGMs).

 

[Stryker1982]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1562763179368669184

several users on here criticized my underground airbase Idea as not realistic. Months later, IRIAF revealed their first one.

Today they flew out Iran’s drones, Tomorrow Iran’s interceptors.

4-5 mountain airbases can protect at least 50-75 Iranian interceptors

It is the most realistic solution to protect Iran’s high value aircraft (including next gen drones) from saturation based attacks (CMs/PGMs).

I believe hack-hook has concerns that since the entrances are vulnerable, the bases are essentially useless, but I believe the cons of the vulnerable entrance does not outweigh the pro of safe storage.

If a serious interceptor fleet is acquired, might be worth it to build new airbases inside the mountains sort of like the Hoth airbase in Starwars where the exits of the bases stretches into out outside runway, and all maintenance, fuel, munitions' etcc are stored in the mountain. Isfahan would be ideal. Easy job for Iran, already done by China. May already be in progress in Iran

 

[TheImmortal]

I believe hack-hook has concerns that since the entrances are vulnerable, the bases are essentially useless, but I believe the cons of the vulnerable entrance does not outweigh the pro of safe storage.

I have already address this concern

Mesh alloy nets deployed when entrances are closed would be set at specific angles and would pre-detonate PGMs or CMs before they could hit the blast doors at the entrance. Much like cage armour on tank.

Furthermore that is the fail safe mechanism, in addition there would also be CIWS, SOHRADs, Mobin and such covering the short range air defenses of the facility key areas (entrances/ventilation shafts/electrical systems)

The concern that these would be put out of operation are far overblown considering how vulnerable Iran’s airfields are in a prolonged conflict.

China’s built nuclear proof Air Force shelters and bases in anticipation of war with with USA in 60’s and 70’s.