IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Stryker1982]

I think they would!
It really depends on the price, the aircraft being offered, what is included in the price, the financing, if there is a tech transfer & whether or not we get access to the weapons systems so we can use our own weapons
Unless China can come up with an attractive offer with good financing, I really don't see them purchasing a fighter jet.

Since China is buying most of our oil making a deal with them for financing would be relatively easy but the problem is that Chinese are going to want to offer us the J-10 and I wouldn't want the J-10!
If it was me I'd rather pay more and purchase fewer Aircrafts!

How many fighters has Russia lost? And against who? and how? And how useful was Ukrainian Air Force against a technology superior adversary? If Ukraine had equipped it's self with a large fleet of jet powered UCAV's could they have been more useful? The whole world is taking notes!

Indeed, J-10 not suitable for Iran. Iran is a very large country in need of a heavy interceptor.

The AL-31 engine on the J-10 though... would love to have ToT and production capabilities for this engine set up so a twin AL-31 heavy interceptor. Would still have to import parts, I think the expectation that Iran can do 0-100% and build a GOOD interceptor is not reasonable.

 

[N_Al40]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519297446333009922

Sorry but why tf can't Iran deploy the SAM-358 in Syria against Israeli F-16s??

It's literally been used in Yemen to down an F-15, a Tornado, and countless drones. Can't fathom why the IRGC haven't used it in an ambush type style attack à la the Israeli F-16 shootdown in February 2018 - reportedly planned by Martyr Soleimani; used a Saegeh UAV as bait, then 1 of 8 F-16Is show down by a Syrian S-200 system while flying high altitude

 

[Sineva]

Indeed, J-10 not suitable for Iran. Iran is a very large country in need of a heavy interceptor.

The AL-31 engine on the J-10 though... would love to have ToT and production capabilities for this engine set up so a twin AL-31 heavy interceptor. Would still have to import parts, I think the expectation that Iran can do 0-100% and build a GOOD interceptor is not reasonable.

I think that from a purely technological perspective iran could certainly produce a single engine light fighter like the F-CK-1 Ching-kuo or JF-17,tho the real question is whether the huge economic costs involved in doing so could be justified,especially when one considers the fact that those resources could arguably be far better utilized on the production of far more capable weapons.
The simple fact is that the airforce,regardless of however it is equipped,is still only ever going to play a back up role in irans military doctrine.
The airforce also has the problem in that it has consistently failed to further develop its own capabilities indigenously or to take advantage of new weapons technologies such as drones or aeroballistic weapons systems.

 

[Stryker1982]

I think that from a purely technological perspective iran could certainly produce a single engine light fighter like the F-CK-1 Ching-kuo or JF-17,tho the real question is whether the huge economic costs involved in doing so could be justified,especially when one considers the fact that those resources could arguably be far better utilized on the production of far more capable weapons.
The simple fact is that the airforce,regardless of however it is equipped,is still only ever going to play a back up role in irans military doctrine.
The airforce also has the problem in that it has consistently failed to further develop its own capabilities indigenously or to take advantage of new weapons technologies such as drones or aeroballistic weapons systems.

The reality is that the costs are never justified if your opponent is the United States with near infinite financial resources and thousands of 4++ and 5th gen aircraft. You just can't compete in this arena, and more importantly, their allies are equipped with 4++ gen aircraft as well.

Dealing with them independently would be fine, but they are likely to act as a coalition, therefore it's never justified. Best not to play into their game is the logic from the IRGC.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519297446333009922

Sorry but why tf can't Iran deploy the SAM-358 in Syria against Israeli F-16s??

It's literally been used in Yemen to down an F-15, a Tornado, and countless drones. Can't fathom why the IRGC haven't used it in an ambush type style attack à la the Israeli F-16 shootdown in February 2018 - reportedly planned by Martyr Soleimani; used a Saegeh UAV as bait, then 1 of 8 F-16Is show down by a Syrian S-200 system while flying high altitude

The 358 SAM is not good for these turbofan aircraft, its good for slower things like UAVs and maybe a helicopter that is hovering too much. Those aircraft downing were from intelligently modified AA missiles.

Also, the key element is that Israeli aircraft never flies into Syrian airspace, they strike from far out with air launched missiles. Your only bet is to intercept the munitions which has happened many times.

 

[N_Al40]

The reality is that the costs are never justified if your opponent is the United States with near infinite financial resources and thousands of 4++ and 5th gen aircraft. You just can't compete in this arena, and more importantly, their allies are equipped with 4++ gen aircraft as well.

Dealing with them independently would be fine, but they are likely to act as a coalition, therefore it's never justified. Best not to play into their game is the logic from the IRGC.



The 358 SAM is not good for these turbofan aircraft, its good for slower things like UAVs and maybe a helicopter that is hovering too much. Those aircraft downing were from intelligently modified AA missiles.

Also, the key element is that Israeli aircraft never flies into Syrian airspace, they strike from far out with air launched missiles. Your only bet is to intercept the munitions which has happened many times.

Thank you for educating me, I was not aware of this!!

I'm somewhat open to Iran operating AD systems in Syria but only if they are downgraded export variants that do not contain sensitive tech that would otherwise compromise the entire AD system apparatus

 

[GrandBotBoi]

Guys, Russia has lost 9 SU-34s the most advanced bomber of RuAF.

Any idea about which airdefense used to down the fullbacks? So far they have also lost 10 percent of their overall Ka-52 Choppers. I know that its because of insane Flow of MANPADs into Ukraine. But hitting 9 SU-34 is an outstanding achievement for Ukrainian airdefense forces.

Most of those 9 aren't confirmed to be SU-34, plus even if they were it'd not be 10% (it'd be 7%)

 

[Stryker1982]

Thank you for educating me, I was not aware of this!!

I'm somewhat open to Iran operating AD systems in Syria but only if they are downgraded export variants that do not contain sensitive tech that would otherwise compromise the entire AD system apparatus

It's difficult to set up a good AD defense in Syria, because their is no time to build up.

AD can't easily be transported into Syria during this time. AD network needs to build up overtime, but Israeli airstrikes make it difficult to transport these into the country and to build up a large network of them. That's kind of the main issue with defending fully against these strikes. I am not sure if they've ever transported these into Syria yet but some articles have suggested that Iran is building an AD network there and intercepting some strikes. Of course every inch of the country cannot be covered so some will get through.

 

[sanel1412]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519297446333009922

Sorry but why tf can't Iran deploy the SAM-358 in Syria against Israeli F-16s??

It's literally been used in Yemen to down an F-15, a Tornado, and countless drones. Can't fathom why the IRGC haven't used it in an ambush type style attack à la the Israeli F-16 shootdown in February 2018 - reportedly planned by Martyr Soleimani; used a Saegeh UAV as bait, then 1 of 8 F-16Is show down by a Syrian S-200 system while flying high altitude

When Syria left Lebanon, it lost strategic depth for air defense zone, that is because of terrain(there is Mountain chain between border), Syria now has big problems since Israel can fly all the way to mediterrain sea undetected, they Just pop up fire missile and fly back to lower atlittude... Syria would need constant presence of AWACS in Med. Sea to cover this gap or some OTH radar on the North. There is option to put some short to medijum AD systems a long the border, which Syria did at some degree, but this still is not solution for Israel aircrafts since they fire missile from long ranges, from Lebanon or Med Sea, to be honest Syrian AD has improved their time of reaction, and they shot down most of the missiles.

 

[sha ah]

I don't know, notice how they've never exported flankers. I've read that it has something to do with an agreement / settlement with Russia. Sure China produces their own engines but they still also depend on Russian engines and Russian parts, maintenance for some weapons systems. The S-400 for example, the vital maintenance must be done by Russia and who knows if Russia has given the Chinese the software codes.

Also since the Chinese have been going on their copy cat spree during the last few years, now Russian weapons have what is called a "kill switch" (I believe) incorporated into their weapons systems. Basically if anyone tries to open up the weapons vital components without permission it renders the weapon useless until they can enter in the code. This can lead to a warranty being voided and a hefty fine as well.

Anyways I wouldn't mind Iran buying a few dozen J-10s. Iran can easily afford them right now. Iran's yearly budget this year is based on the price of oil being $60 a barrel and Iran selling 1 million barrels a day. Iran is exceeding those numbers by nearly double if not more, so by the end of the year Iran will have a surplus on the yearly budget. Correct me if I'm mistaken but that's as I understand it.

But Sir China is now producing and equipping the J-16 with its own domestically produced WS-10A engine; this bypasses the agreement made with Russia as that only pertained to the AL-31F engine that Russia was supplying to China

 

[sha ah]

I personally don't understand the Syrians. Recently Israelis struck another research facility. This is confusing to me because during the civil war, the rebels dug massive tunnel networks in underground caves. Some of these being very extensive and deep underground. With Iran's experience in this field, Iran could easily extend these networks and setup vital locations, like research facilities there. Or they could be used to keep mobile launchers for air defense units. Another option is to keep Iranian drones or missiles on Russian protected sites, like Hmeimim airport.

Iran could also transfer small scale air defense systems to Lebanon, since Israeli jet usually fly over Lebanon to launch missiles to Syria. They often fly low, then fly over the Golan Heights, unleash their missiles and then fly back to Israel. MANPAD ambush teams could easily spot the jets while they're flying low and try to shoot them down. For some reason though this never gets done.

Another thing i wonder about Libya is why they don't liberate the rest of Idlib. Their army seems capable but I guess the Turks don't want Al Qaeda militants flooding into Turkey as they flee. I suppose that with the current economic situation in Turkey, that Assad is waiting for a pristine opportunity ?

But then there's Al Tanf and the oil fields in Deir Ezzor controlled by SDF. I don't understand why Assad doesn't unleash missiles and drones at these sites. I mean yes he's hoping that one day he can regain control and doesn't want to destroy the oil facilities but come on he should give them an ultimatum, "either give us our oil facilities back or we'll destroy them"

On the other hand, Syria has been through so much in the last decade that they're basically just happy to be alive I guess and trying to keep their economy from completely collapsing. Can't really blame Assad considering the fact that his regime barely survived just a few years ago.

I'm sure that Iran would be willing to help Assad retaliate everytime the Syrians launch airstrikes but if the Syrians are reluctant and unwilling, then what can you do ?

When Syria left Lebanon, it lost strategic depth for air defense zone, that is because of terrain(there is Mountain chain between border), Syria now has big problems since Israel can fly all the way to mediterrain sea undetected, they Just pop up fire missile and fly back to lower atlittude... Syria would need constant presence of AWACS in Med. Sea to cover this gap or some OTH radar on the North. There is option to put some short to medijum AD systems a long the border, which Syria did at some degree, but this still is not solution for Israel aircrafts since they fire missile from long ranges, from Lebanon or Med Sea, to be honest Syrian AD has improved their time of reaction, and they shot down most of the missiles.

 

[sha ah]

I'm telling you China cannot export any Flanker variant. Russia does not want competition in that field. Do you think they want China selling flankers but for less in the global market ? In that case Russia would likely stop supplying Chinese with support and spare parts for their Russian jets. At that point China could replace all of their jets that have Russian engines with Chinese engines, but are the Chinese engines as good ?

Also are the Chinese jets as cheap / cost effective since the Chinese just began producing them while the Russians have been mass producing them for decades ? Also the Chinese claim that their engines are as good if not better than Russian engines but I've heard stories about the JF-17 emitting black smoke and having various issues. When the Pakistanis complained the Chinese say "it is what it is" LOL Also the Chinese J-15 has been called the "flopping fish" by the Chinese themselves. It's under powered.

At the same time imagine China losing support from Russia for weapons systems like the S-400. The vital maintenance must be done by Russia. Chinese don't have the software codes which leaves them in a vulnerable situation. A few years ago, the Russians finally got fed up with the Chinese going on a copycat rampage of their weapons and so they began installing "kill switches" on their weapons systems. Basically if you try screwing around with the vital components the Russians will be notified (there was such a case a few years ago with the SU-35 I believe where the Russians found out) After that you will need a special code for the plane to continue to function. That code can cost a hefty fee, so is it worth it ?

The only planes the Chinese can export are JF-17 and J-10. The only issue is that Iran will not accept the JF-17 an under any circumstances and the J-10 they want to exchange for oil. The Chinese said no but now with the current soaring energy prices who knows. Iran can easily afford a few dozen if not 100 J-10s. They're $35-$60 million each depending on the configuration and Iran's economy is going to be in surplus this year. The budget was counting on oil prices being at $60 a barrel and Iran selling 1 million barrels day. Iran is set to more than double those numbers so purchasing J-10s is no issue for Iran.

Personally I believe that Iran should purchase 70-100 J-10s from China and 70-100 SU-30/SU-35s from Russia. The radar systems on the Sukhois can be upgraded if need be. Iran's military doctrine is based on defense not offense and so in a war time scenario 90% of the time Iranian jets will stay within Iran's borders anyways.

Correct. The other user is wrong. China can export any fighter as long as it doesn’t use Russian engines.

I still think J-31 makes more sense if we consider a 20 year shelf life for fighter jets. Ideally J-20, but I doubt China would give its superiority fighter to Iran.

I’m not sure what China is willing to offer. These speculations pop up every year and nothing happens. Almost 2 years since embargo was dropped, no major arms deal.

 

[sha ah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519457169535422465

 

[TheImmortal]

I'm telling you China cannot export any Flanker variant. Russia does not want competition in that field. Do you think they want China selling flankers but for less in the global market ? In that case Russia would likely stop supplying Chinese with support and spare parts for their Russian jets. At that point China could replace all of their jets that have Russian engines with Chinese engines, but are the Chinese engines as good ?

What Russia wants is irrelevant. You are saying China cannot which implies some legal issue. If you say China wont because they don’t want to upset Russia and their arms relationship then that’s something completely different.

China right now has very few friends who want to spend hundreds if not billions of dollars to buy Chinese fighters. Most stick to Russian or Western fighter jets. Pakistan is one of the few and they have a special relationship.

 

[sha ah]

China "can" but the headache they have to deal with afterwards is not worth it. Therefore they won't. You can look into it yourself. They will only export JF-17s and J-10s. The J-20 is exclusively for themselves. I just wonder how the J-20 would perform against the Rafale. Indians are convinced the Rafale would tear them apart, but I'm not convinced. However dogfights are a thing of the past, BVR is about all jets will do these days since they cost way too much to risk.

Also Iranians have been so picky over the years when it comes to procuring fighter jets. Why in the world would they opt for an inferior copy of the Flanker ? The Chinese themselves call their flankers the floppy fish so why would Iran want it ? The J-10 is a much better choice.

Honestly Iran with 70 J-10s and 70 SU-35s/SU-30s would be perfect

What Russia wants is irrelevant. You are saying China cannot which implies some legal issue. If you say China wont because they don’t want to upset Russia and their arms relationship then that’s something completely different.

China right now has very few friends who want to spend hundreds if not billions of dollars to buy Chinese fighters. Most stick to Russian or Western fighter jets. Pakistan is one of the few and they have a special relationship.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Also Iranians have been so picky over the years when it comes to procuring fighter jets. Why in the world would they opt for an inferior copy of the Flanker ? The Chinese themselves call their flankers the floppy fish so why would Iran want it ? The J-10 is a much better choice.

Honestly Iran with 70 J-10s and 70 SU-35s/SU-30s would be perfect

Maintenance headache , if Iran want to procure any jet , must go with something that reduce the maintenance cost. If you say Iran doctrine is defensive , then we must go for interceptors , how good SU-30 is in that role ? or J-10 ?