IRIAF | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

the intake is same if im not wrong , the engine is different because of that only A model have the problem

Yes first F-14’s have different engine than later F-14’s.

Iran cannot reverse engineer F-14 engine. It would be very difficult to reverse even RD-33 without the blueprints and timing mechanism of the blades.

There are 5 countries that can reliably make fighter jet engines Russia, US, France, Britain, and China.

In the West, GE, RR, Pratt and Whitney are big players.

That should give users an idea about the sheer size of effort required in building a modern jet engine.

Now Iran has a pretty big military industrial complex one of the largest in the Middle East even bigger than Israel. The real question comes down to organization, politics, and ability to build a competent supply chain.

Everyone points to Turkey development efforts, but literally nothing Turkey builds is 100% in Turkey or without license or a spare part from the West. And since Turkey is part of NATO and contributes the largest amount of soldiers to NATO it knows that it can afford such a risky strategy with limited concern.

Iran on the other hand can never rely on a massive project like fighter jet to have parts come from elsewhere. We saw with the Mowj what happened once engines were no longer supplied, led to delay till its own engines were ready.

 

[Mithridates]

the intake is same if im not wrong , the engine is different because of that only A model have the problem

i'm not really familiar with that issue but i asked some one with knowledge in this regard and it seems the issue is the intake does not work with tf-30 engine.

 

[Hack-Hook]

i'm not really familiar with that issue but i asked some one with knowledge in this regard and it seems the issue is the intake does not work with tf-30 engine.

That's why USA in later models used f110 engine

 

[Mithridates]

That's why USA in later models used f110 engine

not really, the main reason for f-110 replacement was low thrust to weight ratio of F-14A, specially for a carrier based interceptor.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

1-Iran modernized its Mirage F1

Last week, the deputy commander of the Iranian Air Force, General Hamid Vahedi, announced the successful development of the improved version of the Mirages F1 related to these forces by incorporating a new radar of local design and a cruise missile with a range of 300 km.

Thus, the improved versions of the Dassault Mirage F1 of the Iranian Air Force can now claim better air superiority over their old models by conducting air defense missions and being used to provide support to the ground. This suggests that those deployed by the Iranian Air Force would be able to carry air-to-air missiles, which is credited with the installation of radar and air-to-ground missiles.

 

[StormBreaker]

So any updates of Qaher 313? What happened of that ?

 

[Ich]

So any updates of Qaher 313? What happened of that ?

I read in an other forum that its canceled cause of a new turbofan engine what is to big for Qaher 313 and now a new plane is on scratch for it. But i have to use google translater and i dont know if its true or not so...maybe, maybe not.

 

[TheImmortal]

I read in an other forum that its canceled cause of a new turbofan engine what is to big for Qaher 313 and now a new plane is on scratch for it. But i have to use google translater and i dont know if its true or not so...maybe, maybe not.

Was never more than tech demonstrator. Would need to be enlarged by 150-200% to be even worth it to build.

I mean even Military couldn’t agree on its role, one person said anti ship, one person said anti helicopter, one person said CAS, one person said air defense, one person said trainer.

Honestly the original premise was likely to take an F-5 size fighter jet (something Iran could produce with effort) and make it 5th gen worthy.

Problem is a F-5 size fighter jet is too small in today’s fighter jet world. Was decent in 1950/1960s as a cheap export fighter, but now the world has moved to medium and heavy class jet fighters for versatility.

 

[GWXP]

I think the aim of F-313 was:

1) Project that allows Iran to develop indigenous industrial and scientific base to build and design advanced aircraft on its own, thus allowing Iranian engineers to gain valuable experience for future projects

2) prototype, based on which 5th generation can be built in the future once Iran reverse engineers RD-33

meantime:

3) build a stealthy aircraft that can fly at subsonic speeds low over the Persian Gulf and destroy enemy helicopters, while protecting speedboat;s making swarm attack

4) subsonic stealthy aircraft that can fly low over the Persian Gulf at subsonic speed while taking advantage of ground effect and attack oil tankers with anti-ship missiles

^^(note that this is at least ---- something of military value,--- because anyway, as of now, with J-85, Iran can't build a fighter that can match US fighters)

Maybe next year--year 1400 Iranian calendar, we will see it flying (4 years after it was shown making taxi tests)

 

[Mithridates]

in my opinion we might be misunderstood the role of plane, the gen dehgan said it's a هواپیمای اموزشی. we translated it to trainer jet. but i guess he might be meant that this plane has educational purpose. i mean we all remember iran leased some Venezuelan f-16 (it was main US and Israeli fighter jet) to analyze them in aerial battles and against our air defenses. people would ask how different it would be compared to an mirage f-1 or other planes to compel us to lease it?? well it seems like every plane requires different approach.
now with same logic and the possibility of an strike with US or Israeli f-35 stealth fighters, we need an stealth plane to study it and it's performance against our air defenses and interceptors to develop an strategy against this kind of attacks. in the mean time with the information we get from our radars of the plane, we can improve the plane stealth characteristics as well. this stealth plane would have limited A2G capability as well.

 

[Ich]

in my opinion we might be misunderstood the role of plane, the gen dehgan said it's a هواپیمای اموزشی. we translated it to trainer jet. but i guess he might be meant that this plane has educational purpose. i mean we all remember iran leased some Venezuelan f-16 (it was main US and Israeli fighter jet) to analyze them in aerial battles and against our air defenses. people would ask how different it would be compared to an mirage f-1 or other planes to compel us to lease it?? well it seems like every plane requires different approach.
now with same logic and the possibility of an strike with US or Israeli f-35 stealth fighters, we need an stealth plane to study it and it's performance against our air defenses and interceptors to develop an strategy against this kind of attacks. in the mean time with the information we get from our radars of the plane, we can improve the plane stealth characteristics as well. this stealth plane would have limited A2G capability as well.

Yes, a testbed. Maybe meanwhile Qaher exists as 1 flying prototype to test different stealth materials and, as you wrote, to test air defence against it.

 

[aryobarzan]

Elon Musk tells a room full of Air Force pilots: ‘The fighter jet era has passed’
PUBLISHED FRI, FEB 28 20204:29 PM ESTUPDATED 2 HOURS AGO

Amanda Macias@AMANDA_M_MACIAS




KEY POINTS

• Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk predicted Friday that the future of war would be carried out by autonomous drones and not by legacy aircraft.
• “The fighter jet era has passed,” Musk said during a fireside chat with U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. John Thompson at the Air Warfare Symposium in Orlando.
• Musk also said that Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet, which is the Pentagon’s most expensive weapons system, should have a competitor.

Elon Musk, founder of SpaceX, speaks with US Air Force Lieutenant General John Thompson, commander Space and Missile Systems Center commander at Space Pitch Day in San Francisco, California.
US Air Force
ORLANDO, Fla., — Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk predicted Friday that the future of war would be carried out by autonomous drones and not by legacy aircraft.

“The fighter jet era has passed,” Musk said during a fireside chat with U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. John Thompson at the Air Warfare Symposium in Orlando, Florida. “Drone warfare is where the future will be. It’s not that I want the future to be – it’s just, this is what the future will be,” he added.

WATCH NOW
VIDEO01:44
F-35 vs Rafale: The battle for fighter jet supremacy


Musk also said that Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet, which is the Pentagon’s most expensive weapons system, should have a competitor.

“The Joint Strike Fighter, there should be a competitor ... that’s a controversial subject but I don’t think it’s good to have one provider,” Musk said. He later elaborated on Twitter that the F-35 competitor should be a drone.

“The competitor should be a drone fighter plane that’s remote-controlled by a human, but with its maneuvers augmented by autonomy. The F-35 would have no chance against it,” he wrote.

A U.S. Air Force F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter approaches at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida.
U.S. Air Force photo by Samuel King Jr.
Throughout his discussion with Thompson, Musk warned that the United States was at risk of falling behind other nations if it did not prioritize innovation.

“This is not something that was a risk in times past but is a risk now,” Musk said. “I have zero doubt that if the United States doesn’t seek innovation in space it will be second in space.”


Musk also predicted that the Chinese economy will eventually surpass the United States’ by at least two-fold.

Read more: Elon Musk says Chinese economy will surpass US by 2 or 3 times: ‘The foundation of war is economics’

“A thing that will feel pretty strange is that the Chinese economy is probably going to be at least twice as big as the United States’ economy, maybe three times,” Musk said.

“The foundation of war is economics,” Musk said. “If you have half the resources of the counterparty then you better be real innovative, if you’re not innovative, you’re going to lose.”

 

[Arminkh]

Elon Musk tells a room full of Air Force pilots: ‘The fighter jet era has passed’
PUBLISHED FRI, FEB 28 20204:29 PM ESTUPDATED 2 HOURS AGO

Amanda Macias@AMANDA_M_MACIAS




KEY POINTS

• Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk predicted Friday that the future of war would be carried out by autonomous drones and not by legacy aircraft.
• “The fighter jet era has passed,” Musk said during a fireside chat with U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. John Thompson at the Air Warfare Symposium in Orlando.
• Musk also said that Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet, which is the Pentagon’s most expensive weapons system, should have a competitor.

Elon Musk, founder of SpaceX, speaks with US Air Force Lieutenant General John Thompson, commander Space and Missile Systems Center commander at Space Pitch Day in San Francisco, California.
US Air Force
ORLANDO, Fla., — Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk predicted Friday that the future of war would be carried out by autonomous drones and not by legacy aircraft.

“The fighter jet era has passed,” Musk said during a fireside chat with U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. John Thompson at the Air Warfare Symposium in Orlando, Florida. “Drone warfare is where the future will be. It’s not that I want the future to be – it’s just, this is what the future will be,” he added.

WATCH NOW
VIDEO01:44
F-35 vs Rafale: The battle for fighter jet supremacy


Musk also said that Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet, which is the Pentagon’s most expensive weapons system, should have a competitor.

“The Joint Strike Fighter, there should be a competitor ... that’s a controversial subject but I don’t think it’s good to have one provider,” Musk said. He later elaborated on Twitter that the F-35 competitor should be a drone.

“The competitor should be a drone fighter plane that’s remote-controlled by a human, but with its maneuvers augmented by autonomy. The F-35 would have no chance against it,” he wrote.

A U.S. Air Force F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter approaches at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida.
U.S. Air Force photo by Samuel King Jr.
Throughout his discussion with Thompson, Musk warned that the United States was at risk of falling behind other nations if it did not prioritize innovation.

“This is not something that was a risk in times past but is a risk now,” Musk said. “I have zero doubt that if the United States doesn’t seek innovation in space it will be second in space.”


Musk also predicted that the Chinese economy will eventually surpass the United States’ by at least two-fold.

Read more: Elon Musk says Chinese economy will surpass US by 2 or 3 times: ‘The foundation of war is economics’

“A thing that will feel pretty strange is that the Chinese economy is probably going to be at least twice as big as the United States’ economy, maybe three times,” Musk said.

“The foundation of war is economics,” Musk said. “If you have half the resources of the counterparty then you better be real innovative, if you’re not innovative, you’re going to lose.”

I think this is something that many in this forum have expressed. Manned fighter jets are becoming more and more irrelevant with the implementation of cheaper and increasingly sophisticated drones and precision strike missiles.

 

[TheImmortal]

I think this is something that many in this forum have expressed. Manned fighter jets are becoming more and more irrelevant with the implementation of cheaper and increasingly sophisticated drones and precision strike missiles.

What a load of baloney. Elon is used to seeing drones bomb countries and insurgents that can’t fight back.

How are drones going to defend your airspace when the enemy is jamming radio/gps signals? Or when the enemy shoots down your satellites? What happens when operator loses control of the drone? US lost connection to all its drone during the Al Assad air base attack. They were effectively blind.

If your dependent on something like drones to carry out your defense and counter attack you are screwed during war.

Manned pilots will be here for another 25-30 years at the minimum. So if Iran wants to sit around and build Shahed-129 and think that will do anything during a war with another formidable military then they will be in a major wake up call.

 

[Sina-1]

I think this is something that many in this forum have expressed. Manned fighter jets are becoming more and more irrelevant with the implementation of cheaper and increasingly sophisticated drones and precision strike missiles.

I would argue that the technology is already here, however there no implementations as of yet (at least not public ones. US is probably sitting with a darpa/skunk work prototype as we speak).
From an AI and machine learning perspective it is completely possible to have an autonomous ucav fighter/intercepter system. Wether the systems can be jammed or not is absolutely a risk but can be minimized if the implementer is well versed in EW and/or has implemented the system to be completely autonomous.

Furthermore with implementation of quantum communication it will be impossible to jam, intercept or any way disturb the signals.

Manned fighters and interceptors will be obsolete in maximum 15 years and minimum 5 years (if a working prototype exists but not yet showcased). Manned bomber is obsolete!