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What is this? Is this jet supposed to land on carriers?

upload_2018-8-21_11-59-9.png
 
Hmm.... You know I wanna be that guy who just will lambaste Iran for not making something like the F-16, F-15 or Eurofighter etc, etc. But if this jet is indeed made 100% in Iran from start to finish then truthfully speaking that is impressive given the sanctions Iran is put under.

To be candid all I would like to know is how many of these are going to made because like 12 or around there of these jets wont make much of a difference. Also what weapons is this jet going to sport? Give that modern in air confrontations will hardly ever be close in dog-fights, can this jet see far and shoot far? Is this jet just for close air missions? idk... My knowledge about air to air and air to ground combat is very limited also it's not my field of interest tbh.

Regardless I will end by saying this. If this is real then Iran has done a sort of good job I guess, if it's fake then I truly feel sorry for the Iranian people who have been waiting for a competent aircraft to be made.

Why are they calling it fourth generation?
 
I hope everyone got their answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is just another modified design of the Iranian built version of the F-5! Which is a clear statement that Iranian Military leaders still haven't learned lessons from the Iran-Iraq war!

The Airframe is a tad bit larger than the F-5 with a modified Iranian designed Airframe and landing gear (with a focus on the cockpit) rather than an exact copy with a far more comfortable cockpit than the F-5's sadly the fighter tops out at Mach 1.2 (like the T-38)

FYI for all those who don't know the twin seat F-5F maxed out at Mach 1.5 with the ability to cruise at Mach 0.98 at altitude & 0.95 for F-5B
And the F-5E's maxed out at Mach 1.65 and also had a max cruise speed without Afterburners of Mach 0.98 at altitude
Which made them a brilliant design especially with the absurdly weak and cheap engines and airframe that they had and although they couldn't fly that fast with weapons onboard at least they had the ability to runaway at high speeds after deploying their weapons.

As I said sadly Iranian Air Force commander and some in our leadership still haven't learned lessons from the Iran-Iraq war and like a bunch of fools after a decade they are still playing around with the F-5 design where by comparison the U.S. had moved on to the F-14 & F-15 ~ a decade after the F-4's and F-5's.

At least this aircraft proves for all those who doubted it before that the Azarakhsh and Saegheh were actually built by Iran and NOT overhauled F-5's.

The Aircraft sadly has no built in IRST and no Air Refueling pod which are BOTH two major weaknesses that should have been addressed on a light CAS fighter such as this.

And even if Iran addresses those weaknesses a fighter such as this would need to be produced at a rate of 10 to 1 against a relatively more modern Air Force! Which means a country the size of Iran we would need a fleet of 2000 of these fighters!

And even if Iran could mass produce a version equipped with IRST, Fuel pod & an engine that could handle the extended flight time for $10 Million USD per fighter and producing 10 of them ends up being cheaper than buying 1 Su-35 at the end of the day the cost of maintaining, fueling, housing them, arming them & training pilots on such a large fleet over time would bankrupt Iran!


As always Iran's absurd obsessed with the F-5 is mainly due to it's cheap Airframe and the fighters low Titanium requirements which was fine when your fighter program was at it's infancy but it is NOT fine anymore.

Unlike most modern fighters producing the F-5 or the T-38 airframe doesn't require "massive" presses or massive vacuum ovens and it's titanium requirements are a fraction of fighters like the F-14, F-15 or F-22

Some think this is about Iran's Asymmetric style warfare BUT at the end of the day the whole point of Asymmetric warfare is to combat a more expensive military force at a lower cost and on the ground you may be able to use a large number of cheaper equipment against a more expensive armored division at a much lower cost but in the Air it is completely backwards because maintaining a large fleet of cheaper manned fighter jets ends up costing a lot more over time!

If Iran wants to be innovative and save money when it's come to it's Air Force rather than producing 40 F-5's or Saegheh or Azarakhsh or Kowsar a year it would be far better to produce 4 larger fighter a year (~10% larger than the F-14's) that can carry 10 or more 1000lb BVR Missiles or 10 or more 1000lb PGM in an internal weapons bay on a platform that has combat radius of 1200km or more that tops out at ~Mach 2

And since Aircrafts for your Air Forcer are platforms that are spose to last you for decades even if the initial price tag for producing 4-6 Aircraft comes out to be the same as producing 40-60 Iranian F-5 variants over time the more expensive aircraft will not only pay for it's self but militarily it is a far more tactically sound decision

If Iran wants to be innovative when it come to it's Air Force then they need to build a smaller but more capable Air Force with larger fighters equipped with larger engines with a new type of jet fuel that's mainly comprised of Natural Gas on a low RCS airframe with internal weapons bay that can carry a wide array of Air to Ground weapons from missiles that can be fired from outside the range of most SAM's to smart cluster weapons to lighter bunker busters to a large number of sea and ground mines deployed from the Air to laser countermeasures that can disrupt incoming IR & thermal missiles to large powerful radars that can fry enemy radars
 
VEVAK said:
If Iran wants to be innovative and save money when it's come to it's Air Force rather than producing 40 F-5's or Saegheh or Azarakhsh or Kowsar a year it would be far better to produce 4 larger fighter a year (~10% larger than the F-14's) that can carry 10 or more 1000lb BVR Missiles or 10 or more 1000lb PGM in an internal weapons bay on a platform that has combat radius of 1200km or more that tops out at ~Mach 2

And since Aircrafts for your Air Forcer are platforms that are spose to last you for decades even if the initial price tag for producing 4-6 Aircraft comes out to be the same as producing 40-60 Iranian F-5 variants over time the more expensive aircraft will not only pay for it's self but militarily it is a far more tactically sound decision

If Iran wants to be innovative when it come to it's Air Force then they need to build a smaller but more capable Air Force with larger fighters equipped with larger engines with a new type of jet fuel that's mainly comprised of Natural Gas on a low RCS airframe with internal weapons bay that can carry a wide array of Air to Ground weapons from missiles that can be fired from outside the range of most SAM's to smart cluster weapons to lighter bunker busters to a large number of sea and ground mines deployed from the Air to laser countermeasures that can disrupt incoming IR & thermal missiles to large powerful radars that can fry enemy radars
Click to expand...
i mostly agree with you but iran most needs an interceptor, so why would it need to have an internal weapons bay (which has been heavily criticised on the f-35 as not being able to carry much) or be stealthy?
 
VEVAK said:
I hope everyone got their answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is just another modified design of the Iranian built version of the F-5! Which is a clear statement that Iranian Military leaders still haven't learned lessons from the Iran-Iraq war!

The Airframe is a tad bit larger than the F-5 with a modified Iranian designed Airframe and landing gear (with a focus on the cockpit) rather than an exact copy with a far more comfortable cockpit than the F-5's sadly the fighter tops out at Mach 1.2 (like the T-38)

FYI for all those who don't know the twin seat F-5F maxed out at Mach 1.5 with the ability to cruise at Mach 0.98 at altitude & 0.95 for F-5B
And the F-5E's maxed out at Mach 1.65 and also had a max cruise speed without Afterburners of Mach 0.98 at altitude
Which made them a brilliant design especially with the absurdly weak and cheap engines and airframe that they had and although they couldn't fly that fast with weapons onboard at least they had the ability to runaway at high speeds after deploying their weapons.

As I said sadly Iranian Air Force commander and some in our leadership still haven't learned lessons from the Iran-Iraq war and like a bunch of fools after a decade they are still playing around with the F-5 design where by comparison the U.S. had moved on to the F-14 & F-15 ~ a decade after the F-4's and F-5's.

At least this aircraft proves for all those who doubted it before that the Azarakhsh and Saegheh were actually built by Iran and NOT overhauled F-5's.

The Aircraft sadly has no built in IRST and no Air Refueling pod which are BOTH two major weaknesses that should have been addressed on a light CAS fighter such as this.

And even if Iran addresses those weaknesses a fighter such as this would need to be produced at a rate of 10 to 1 against a relatively more modern Air Force! Which means a country the size of Iran we would need a fleet of 2000 of these fighters!

And even if Iran could mass produce a version equipped with IRST, Fuel pod & an engine that could handle the extended flight time for $10 Million USD per fighter and producing 10 of them ends up being cheaper than buying 1 Su-35 at the end of the day the cost of maintaining, fueling, housing them, arming them & training pilots on such a large fleet over time would bankrupt Iran!


As always Iran's absurd obsessed with the F-5 is mainly due to it's cheap Airframe and the fighters low Titanium requirements which was fine when your fighter program was at it's infancy but it is NOT fine anymore.

Unlike most modern fighters producing the F-5 or the T-38 airframe doesn't require "massive" presses or massive vacuum ovens and it's titanium requirements are a fraction of fighters like the F-14, F-15 or F-22

Some think this is about Iran's Asymmetric style warfare BUT at the end of the day the whole point of Asymmetric warfare is to combat a more expensive military force at a lower cost and on the ground you may be able to use a large number of cheaper equipment against a more expensive armored division at a much lower cost but in the Air it is completely backwards because maintaining a large fleet of cheaper manned fighter jets ends up costing a lot more over time!

If Iran wants to be innovative and save money when it's come to it's Air Force rather than producing 40 F-5's or Saegheh or Azarakhsh or Kowsar a year it would be far better to produce 4 larger fighter a year (~10% larger than the F-14's) that can carry 10 or more 1000lb BVR Missiles or 10 or more 1000lb PGM in an internal weapons bay on a platform that has combat radius of 1200km or more that tops out at ~Mach 2

And since Aircrafts for your Air Forcer are platforms that are spose to last you for decades even if the initial price tag for producing 4-6 Aircraft comes out to be the same as producing 40-60 Iranian F-5 variants over time the more expensive aircraft will not only pay for it's self but militarily it is a far more tactically sound decision

If Iran wants to be innovative when it come to it's Air Force then they need to build a smaller but more capable Air Force with larger fighters equipped with larger engines with a new type of jet fuel that's mainly comprised of Natural Gas on a low RCS airframe with internal weapons bay that can carry a wide array of Air to Ground weapons from missiles that can be fired from outside the range of most SAM's to smart cluster weapons to lighter bunker busters to a large number of sea and ground mines deployed from the Air to laser countermeasures that can disrupt incoming IR & thermal missiles to large powerful radars that can fry enemy radars
Click to expand...
I think problem is lack of good engine which prevents them from going for heavier air frames.
 
1996 France vs 2018 Iran
France 1996
Population : 60 million
Scientific documents: 55563
GDP ppp : 1274 billion US$
Fighter jet :
Dassault Rafale First flight Rafale A demo: 4 July 1986
Rafale C: 19 May 1991
qatari_em_1512647625.jpg


Iran 2018
Population : 82 million
Scientific documents: 54388 (at 2017)
GDP ppp : 1700 billion Us$
Fighter Jet :
Kowsar ( improved F-5) First flight 2018
faa18171-3b44-40db-8f5a-31c90cfad050.jpg


Sources :Worldbank , scimagojr , wikipedia
 
pin gu said:
1996 France vs 2018 Iran
France 1996
Population : 60 million
Scientific documents: 55563
GDP ppp : 1274 billion US$
Fighter jet :
Dassault Rafale First flight Rafale A demo: 4 July 1986
Rafale C: 19 May 1991
qatari_em_1512647625.jpg


Iran 2018
Population : 82 million
Scientific documents: 54388 (at 2017)
GDP ppp : 1700 billion Us$
Fighter Jet :
Kowsar ( improved F-5) First flight 2018
faa18171-3b44-40db-8f5a-31c90cfad050.jpg


Sources :Worldbank , scimagojr , wikipedia
Click to expand...
Why you comparing both countries?
 

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