Iran’s Chabahar won’t vie with Pakistan’s Gwadar: Experts

[GURU DUTT]

Thats the problem I have, more I google into it, more I am getting convinced that Charbahar is not a deep sea port. Not even experts but now it seem Pakistani government officials have said that same.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1112186/no-competition-pakistan-sees-no-threat-irans-chabahar-port/

ISLAMABAD: The Ministry of Commerce seems to be least bothered by the trilateral agreement signed recently by Iran, Afghanistan and India for developing the Chabahar port, believing it can never be a competitor of Gwadar port since it is not a deep-sea port.


I am not looking into from the prospect of competition between the two, its the utility of Charbahar which is under question. Thats why I ask you, if you can negate this impression of Charbahar not being a deep sea port, I am all ears.

Chabahar is a deep sea port weather you like it or not but right now just underdevelped and india wants to use it for commercial purpose only but Iranian Navy for sure have a millitarry angle in mind aswell .... cheers mate

 

[Arsalan]

Chabahar is a deep sea port weather you like it or not but right now just underdevelped and india wants to use it for commercial purpose only but Iranian Navy for sure have a millitarry angle in mind aswell .... cheers mate

What?
Chabahar is NOT a deep sea port dear. You may want to learn what a deep sea port is and may be then you will realize what mistake you are making here. It sure is the only port with direct access to the ocean but it is not deep sea port.

Anyway, i wish the Iranians best of luck with there project, do hope they make this work well. Chahbahar and Gwadar wont come on a head on collision course so there is nothing to fight about.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Chabahar is a deep sea port weather you like it or not but right now just underdevelped and india wants to use it for commercial purpose only but Iranian Navy for sure have a millitarry angle in mind aswell .... cheers mate

And yes I am the Queen of England. Hope you have recovered from your weekend hangover?!?!

 

[Mysticbuddy]

Ashraf ghani would grab anything with his both hands at the moment.

Probably sharif brothers neck. They aren't brothers.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

What?
Chabahar is NOT a deep sea port dear. You may want to learn what a deep sea port is and may be then you will realize what mistake you are making here. It sure is the only port with direct access to the ocean but it is not deep sea port.

Anyway, i wish the Iranians best of luck with there project, do hope they make this work well. Chahbahar and Gwadar wont come on a head on collision course so there is nothing to fight about.

I have been asking this chap to give me solid evidence of Chabahar being a deep sea port but all he is doing is pissing in the air. From Pakistani perspective, from experts to Government officials are absolutely clear that Chabahar is NOT deep sea port.

 

[Mysticbuddy]

I have been asking this chap to give me solid evidence of Chabahar being a deep sea port but all he is doing is pissing in the air. From Pakistani perspective, from experts to Government officials are absolutely clear that Chabahar is NOT deep sea port.

Can you provide a reference where it says it is not and also if there is possibility of not to make it either. I know the process of silting being performed but no idea of its limitation.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Can you provide a reference where it says it is not and also if there is possibility of not to make it either. I know the process of silting being performed but no idea of its limitation.

Please refer to my earlier posts where both Pakistani experts and government officials have underscored this shortcoming of Charbahar.

 

[randomradio]

What?
Chabahar is NOT a deep sea port dear. You may want to learn what a deep sea port is and may be then you will realize what mistake you are making here. It sure is the only port with direct access to the ocean but it is not deep sea port.

Anyway, i wish the Iranians best of luck with there project, do hope they make this work well. Chahbahar and Gwadar wont come on a head on collision course so there is nothing to fight about.

I have been asking this chap to give me solid evidence of Chabahar being a deep sea port but all he is doing is pissing in the air. From Pakistani perspective, from experts to Government officials are absolutely clear that Chabahar is NOT deep sea port.

Can you provide a reference where it says it is not and also if there is possibility of not to make it either. I know the process of silting being performed but no idea of its limitation.

Chabahar is not 'yet' a deep sea port. India will be converting it into a deep sea port. It should start handling at least two 250k DWT ships within 18 months and will expand to more numbers later.

Even China's uncomfortable with the Chabahar port.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...deal-will-help-China/articleshow/52489765.cms

Also I hope you all do realize that Afghanistan has huge reserves of minerals free for India to exploit. Chabahar is going to play a huge role in turning Afghanistan into a mining state for India.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?_r=0

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Chabahar is not 'yet' a deep sea port. India will be converting it into a deep sea port. It should start handling at least two 250k DWT ships within 18 months and will expand to more numbers later.

Even China's uncomfortable with the Chabahar port.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...deal-will-help-China/articleshow/52489765.cms

Also I hope you all do realize that Afghanistan has huge reserves of minerals free for India to exploit. Chabahar is going to play a huge role in turning Afghanistan into a mining state for India.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?_r=0

Thank you for your clarification and please do tag all your Indian buddies around. They need to educated as well. Charbahar is NOT a deep sea port as we speak. As for what will happen in future, we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

As for the minerals, Pakistan is already exploiting being the neighbor. And do you think China will be sitting on its backside for exactly the same reason: Access to mineral resources.

 

[Mysticbuddy]

I think the port of chabahar is a problem for Pakistan and is it of its own making.

CPEC is basically an alternate route for China to bring in energy supplies from gulf. It is not a trade route as its one way traffic. In the grand design China has another route through Afghanistan to Central Asia and Europe. That is a trade route as it is a route envisioned to bring raw materials back and send the processed goods. The only way CPEC could be a trade route is if Pakistan becomes a consumer to Chinese goods. That's will be more devastating for Pakistan as
1. The producers in Pakistan will suffer heavily as Chinese flood the market with cheap products that they cannot match. Exclusivity is not a thing in Pakistan as of yet.

2. Economy will be the suffer here as local jobs will be lost. The purchasing power of Pakistan is already not too great which will be greatly reduced further.

3. Pakistan is already a big dumping ground of e-waste and then will be that of other Chinese goods. I know China is send its old power plants to Pakistan already and that's not free.

4. All of the money that is claimed as investment is actually a loan and has to be paid back. It is also secured by collateral amount to be matched.

All this could be avoided by one decision which was: provide a way to India to the Afghanistan. Here is why it was beneficial, Pakistan would have leverage over the India a traditional enemy. They couldn't attack you as you control their trade routes. The power to choke its growing economy. All your concerns of whatever including Kashmir would need to be addressed by them. Pakistan could have made money from their already defunct infrastructure. That also had the capacity to fluctuate Indian goods prices to match theirs.Also Pakistan will know from what goods are being exported and if they have the capacity to make them cheaper. Competing with India is far easier than China. This is off the table as even if provided the same they know that Pakistan is unreliable.

Since it has to compete with the chabahar, what could be done
1. Make Gwadar a free port.
2. Provide huge security to the Afghanistan and internal Pakistan. There is a reason Afghanistan is written first.

Hope this helps in forming your own opinion.

Thanks

 

[randomradio]

Thank you for your clarification and please do tag all your Indian buddies around. They need to educated as well. Charbahar is NOT a deep sea port as we speak. As for what will happen in future, we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Gwadar could only handle 30k DWT ships until a few years ago.

And ports are built for decades of use, a few months head start is insignificant, especially when Iran is considerably richer than Pak while also being a major oil and gas exporter.

As for the minerals, Pakistan is already exploiting being the neighbor. And do you think China will be sitting on its backside for exactly the same reason: Access to mineral resources.

India has a significant upper hand when it comes to minerals in Afghanistan. US controls Af and India is much closer to the new govt than China or Pak. And the tripartite agreement for Chabahar is going to directly help that.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I think the port of chabahar is a problem for Pakistan and is it of its own making.

CPEC is basically an alternate route for China to bring in energy supplies from gulf. It is not a trade route as its one way traffic. In the grand design China has another route through Afghanistan to Central Asia and Europe. That is a trade route as it is a route envisioned to bring raw materials back and send the processed goods. The only way CPEC could be a trade route is if Pakistan becomes a consumer to Chinese goods. That's will be more devastating for Pakistan as
1. The producers in Pakistan will suffer heavily as Chinese flood the market with cheap products that they cannot match. Exclusivity is not a thing in Pakistan as of yet.

2. Economy will be the suffer here as local jobs will be lost. The purchasing power of Pakistan is already not too great which will be greatly reduced further.

3. Pakistan is already a big dumping ground of e-waste and then will be that of other Chinese goods. I know China is send its old power plants to Pakistan already and that's not free.

4. All of the money that is claimed as investment is actually a loan and has to be paid back. It is also secured by collateral amount to be matched.

All this could be avoided by one decision which was: provide a way to India to the Afghanistan. Here is why it was beneficial, Pakistan would have leverage over the India a traditional enemy. They couldn't attack you as you control their trade routes. The power to choke its growing economy. All your concerns of whatever including Kashmir would need to be addressed by them. Pakistan could have made money from their already defunct infrastructure. That also had the capacity to fluctuate Indian goods prices to match theirs.Also Pakistan will know from what goods are being exported and if they have the capacity to make them cheaper. Competing with India is far easier than China. This is off the table as even if provided the same they know that Pakistan is unreliable.

Since it has to compete with the chabahar, what could be done
1. Make Gwadar a free port.
2. Provide huge security to the Afghanistan and internal Pakistan. There is a reason Afghanistan is written first.

Hope this helps in forming your own opinion.

Thanks

Don't know what your analysis is based on but the ground reality is completely different to what you wrote and my recent trip to Pakistan confirms this. Gwadar had ALREADY kick-started many infrastructure projects all over Pakistan and things are now happening in Pakistan that we could not have dreamed of 2 years ago. Also Chinese expertise and technological prowess has already helped many Pakistani industries and businesses reach relative world class standards. Something I thought would not have happened in my lifetime. There is still a long road ahead for us Pakistanis but we are definitely moving in the right direction. There is no doubt about that. And it's not just CPEC but many other large projects that are never really mentioned.

 

[Mysticbuddy]

Don't know what your analysis is based on but the ground reality is completely different to what you wrote and my recent trip to Pakistan confirms this. Gwadar had ALREADY kick-started many infrastructure projects all over Pakistan and things are now happening in Pakistan that we could not have dreamed of 2 years ago. Also Chinese expertise and technological prowess has already helped many Pakistani industries and businesses reach relative world class standards. Something I thought would not have happened in my lifetime. There is still a long road ahead for us Pakistanis but we are definitely moving in the right direction. There is no doubt about that. And it's not just CPEC but many other large projects that are never really mentioned.

I am happy for that for Pakistanis. As this is limited to the context of Gwadar, I will not be able to follow you around for all of that.

 

[Arsalan]

Chabahar is not 'yet' a deep sea port. India will be converting it into a deep sea port. It should start handling at least two 250k DWT ships within 18 months and will expand to more numbers later.

My question was aimed at @GURU DUTT who was insisting that it is a deep sea port. Thanks for confirm, perhaps he will listen to your more then he does to us.

Even China's uncomfortable with the Chabahar port.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...deal-will-help-China/articleshow/52489765.cms

Chest thumping at best. CHINA will have nothing to do with Chabahar. If anyone needs to be concerned it is Pakistan and even Pakistan is not too much bothered as we understand the importance of Gwadar and the potential of Chabahar. It wont be a direct competition/threat to us.

Also I hope you all do realize that Afghanistan has huge reserves of minerals free for India to exploit. Chabahar is going to play a huge role in turning Afghanistan into a mining state for India.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?_r=0

Sir those mineral resources are NO GOOD for now. They are just as real as the coal in our thar, the gold in our reko dik, the iron in our chiniot and what not. It is good that India may end up with an alternate route to Afghanistan so they will be able to support the proxy war by passing Pakistan geographically but there are SO many other things at play here and out members usually ignore so many facts out of patriotism.

@GURU DUTT i hope you will provide us with a reply regarding Chabhar being deep sea port.

 

[randomradio]

Chest thumping at best. CHINA will have nothing to do with Chabahar. If anyone needs to be concerned it is Pakistan and even Pakistan is not too much bothered as we understand the importance of Gwadar and the potential of Chabahar. It wont be a direct competition/threat to us.

It actually depends. For eg: If the Africans eventually want to do business with China, they will most likely choose Chabahar over Gwadar because of a few reasons.

- Iran is a far more stable country than Pak.
- Iran is currently richer and more influential in the region.
- Iran provides easier access through Central Asia to both China and Europe.

If Gwadar is merely a conduit for China's energy security, then Chabahar won't pose any threat to Gwadar. But as for long term business potential, Chabahar's potential is higher due to the above reasons.

Sir those mineral resources are NO GOOD for now. They are just as real as the coal in our thar, the gold in our reko dik, the iron in our chiniot and what not. It is good that India may end up with an alternate route to Afghanistan so they will be able to support the proxy war by passing Pakistan geographically but there are SO many other things at play here and out members usually ignore so many facts out of patriotism.

The Af govt has already enacted laws that favour Indian companies.
http://www.thehindu.com/business/In...-and-petroleum-jamil-hares/article6295759.ece

And now we are in the process of negotiating a $11B steel plant. Other mining businesses will follow suit once the Chabahar port and the rail link deals are completed in Iran.

Due to a future requirement for solar powered cars, lithium is going to be a major area of expansion. The problem for India is, just like uranium, lithium is rare as well. So we need to tap into Af's massive reserves of lithium.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...epend-on-imported-lithium-115110900423_1.html

The mining opportunities for Af-India is the reason why Pak did not allow an Af-India link for trade. Now Pak will lose billions in transit fees and Iran will earn the same.

The difference between Chabahar and Gwadar is the huge potential for Chabahar as a trade route. It will be very crucial for India as a connector to Central Asia and Europe, while Gwadar is primarily being built by China for energy security, China has the Silk Road for trade, which Pak will not directly benefit from.